How to tear down a 34' by 48' barn?

Clovis · February 03, 2008, 08:23:14 PM

I have just recently been offered a timber framed barn. The top half seems to be in excellent shape but the bottom posts have been cut about two feet off of the ground and have been blocked in. The friend is going to help take it down but he wants to do it the easy way. Wrap a rope around the top and pull it down with a log skidder and winch. I would like to save and restore the barn but if it is going to be destroyed I dont want to get involved. Any ideas on how I could take it down or what would the usual cost and procedure be? I might even save the wood for my new cottage but then the wood would need to be cut anyway because it is going to be smaller. 24' by 44'

beenthere · February 03, 2008, 08:50:52 PM

Clovis
Three of us were helping erect a timber frame barn last June, and it sounded like the method (gin poles, ropes) used to put it up were the same methods used to take it down.

Here is a thread about the barn being erected on a new farm location and about "rooster" who is the one who knows how it is done.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,26080.0.html

Polly · February 03, 2008, 08:56:32 PM

8)make sure the traces are hooked up then gitty up go then whoo

shinnlinger · February 03, 2008, 09:00:52 PM

since the posts are shot anyway, can you cut them(the blocking) in such a way that when the winch and skidder get involved the posts fold and the roof system is on the ground for dissassembly?

Can you post a shot of the roof system? Ussually deconstruction is reverse of assembly. roof boards, purlins rafters etc...but you can also pick and choose what you want to save and ussually old barns dont come apart easy...you will break something..hopefully not you....cranes are nice

Thehardway · February 03, 2008, 10:12:48 PM

Clovis,

Ditto what shinnlinger said on the pictures. We need some more info on the construction method. Is it bent style construction or is it a continuos top plate with common rafters, ridgebeam etc.?

maineframer · February 04, 2008, 08:32:17 AM

I don't imagine it will come down easily with a tug of a skidder. The frame should be disassembled in reverse order it went up. Shingles, boarding, rafters&purlins, top plates etc.

I have found that stepping back ---looking --planning --having another cup of coffee-- are all important steps to such an undertaking.

thecfarm · February 04, 2008, 08:47:25 AM

Wrap a rope around it and pull it down? Hope it's all ready to fall down.Will take alot of wotk and time to save the lumber.But if it's worth to to you,have fun.I have only torn down two stick built buildings.One the lumber was saved,the other was not.Have to remember with all of the timbers and boards,anything saved needs all the nails removed for future sawing.Remember some of the upright timber might of been used to hang stuff on,nails was used for that.

Clovis · February 04, 2008, 10:39:33 AM

Thanks for the help guys. I will try and get some pics for you to look at. The barn is about a hour and a half away and it was just dropped on my lap this weekend while i was visiting some friends. The friend that owns the barn is a full time farmer and wants it gone. He's not on the same wave length as the rest of us are on the forestry forum. It does have continuous top plates with rafters. The top plates are not one piece they have a tie joint over a post. It has tin roofing that you can see from the inside, no old shakes to deal with. The outer walls on the bottom are two layer wood siding the top 2/3 is one layer. I am thinkin about cuting the bottom posts and then dropping it down to the loft level to start the the disassembly process. The bottom is kind of crappy and the loft is about 2/3rds of the barn height.

I'm building my own saw mill to cut up the Ash trees that have been wiped out from the borer in our area. All the wood is going to good use in my new cottage. It is going to be a timber frame.

Jim_Rogers · February 04, 2008, 01:14:27 PM

Clovis:
A professional barn disassembler would get thousands of dollars (US) for taking down a barn like this, if you want to save it and use it either at the same size it was or just the parts.
The first thing you have to do to save it for being a barn of the same size is to strip the frame off all the boards and roofing materials.
Doing this makes the frame weaker, and you may need to add bracing inside to hold it all together.
Then you'd take it apart from the top down. You'll need to study the frame and find the last piece put up and take that down first, as mentioned above working backwards from the way it was assembled.
You'll need a complete set of plans of how it now stands for putting it back together. You'll need to label the plan and the timber with the same label so that you understand where each one came from to put it back to where it needs to go.

If you're going to just take it down for using the timbers and lumber over again, you can do whatever you want to get it down. But if the posts are bad then the overall weight of the frame is being held up somewhere. You'll need lots of bracing and be careful if you take the wrong thing out the whole thing could come down at once.

Pulling over a timber frame isn't as easy as it sounds....

Jim Rogers

Don P · February 04, 2008, 07:25:17 PM

I'd look the gift horse in the mouth real closely first though. Look for insect exit holes, rot, mud tunnels, excessive lean, broken beams, etc. Around here many of the old barns are simply at the end of their service life and are not really up to reuse. Use a critical eye before comitting a whole lot of labor.

Clovis · February 04, 2008, 08:00:45 PM

The more I evaluate the romantic idea of saving this barn the more that reality sets in. I think that I may have to go the route of pulling it down. The first step that I may take is to weaken the lower secton that is not in very good shape anyway and not really salvageable. Then hopefully as Jim said "barns don't come down easy" we can get the loft area to move laterally and remain intact on the ground beside the bottom part of the frame (kinda-sorta). When that half is closer to the ground and the potentially falling beams have less momentum smiley_swinging_board I will try to salvage what I can for the new cottage. The loft area is a beautiful work of art and visually in very good shape from the inside. The bottom on the other hand is pretty much toast. Seeing as I have ZERO experience with timber framing the disassembly of a frame might do me some good when building the timber framed cottage. No matter how little I pick up. And before anybody says it I have already read every timber framing book known to man. :P ??? :P

Ironwood · February 04, 2008, 08:10:17 PM

I am with Jim on this one. Lots of site and situation specific variables to comment too much. I have taken down (piece meal and tagged) three timber frame buildings, two small on one like yours. It is not easy that is FOR SURE. I like the "cup of coffee" idea. There are reasons to do it piece meal depending on the type and quality of decking, siding and timbers. I just looked at one MONSTER barn near slated for distruction, it is of the era where the raw materials really don't support the piece meal disassembly. The raw material value just isn't there, it is 1940's pine siding and decking, one good thing is a shingle roof (light weight) but it is sawn oak timbers and nothing in the totality of it suggests anything other than a demo job. YES, they are hard to "just pull down" even if they look weak, then if you can't get it down it is a REAL danger!!! LOTS OF VARIABLES.

Ironwood

Clovis · February 04, 2008, 08:27:47 PM

Hey Ironwood, did you get any practical knowledge from the barn disassembly process? I'm new to this and I think taking down a barn may help me relate all I have read on timber framing so far. And the plus is that I really enjoy this stuff.

Ironwood · February 05, 2008, 12:47:23 AM

Sure some knowlege, but most of the same could be gleaned from really studying the thing even w/ out taking it down. Certainly have seen others make the "pull it down w/ a cable" methodology mistake, even a weakened barn is VERY strong. IF you only get it half way down then there is REAL danger. I would be very lerry of this. I have seen people cut all the corner bracing first, that helped, but I would definitely precable it to give it support from the outside as you weaken it from the inside. Find some one local who has done it, they will give you tons of insight. I have become a bit of a local guy who can give folks pointers on these OLE GIRLS. BTDT kinda thing. Don't be afraid to give them a little cash, there insight could be very helpful if it is the right person and they understand you want them to REALLY look at this with you.

IRonwood

moonhill · February 05, 2008, 06:03:42 AM

Here is my vote. Take it down backwards, but you have to turn around and face it. The roof sounds easy, no boarding. Rafters next. Remove wall boards. Top plates. Drop bents one at a time. Use plenty of extra bracing to hold the remaining up.
Do you know how old this building is. It is our history were dealing with here. If its taken down and parted out, we just lost some of our history. If it is save as a whole structure, we just saved some of our history. If you just want the parts there isn't much there, the post and beams are full of mortice and tenons in all the wrong places. The only way to re use them is in the same configuration. Other wise save your self the time and money and have the owner take it down at his cost. I have only taken down 2 buildings, using gin poles and block and tackle, one was repaired and put back to use the other is in waiting. I wouldn't hesitate at another chance on the next, and go for it, it is a great learning experience. Work safe. Tim B.

Clovis · February 05, 2008, 12:30:57 PM

Tim, your right on the money about the fact its our history thats being destroyed. The farmer that owns it may be of a different opinion though. Its just a old barn that does not fit his needs and he can't store any equipment in it, insurance, taxes the whole nine yards, its not history to him. I'm the one who came in and said lets try and save at least some of this beauty even if its just a bit of it. He was going to use the beams and boards for fire wood. (shudder-shudder) The rafters could deffinetly be of use to me and even some of the beams that have the least amount of notches in them. They will only be moved about 20 min to away to my cottage so thay are staying in the area that they grew in.

iffy · February 05, 2008, 04:14:48 PM

An old gent from this area who is many years deceased used to be in big demand for people who were salvaging old buildings. If the building was such that he could close up all the holes, he would hang some dynamite at the right heights and the right places and touch it off. If his calculations were correct, and I never heard of an instance that the weren't, the building would bulge a little and when the dust settled most of the nails would be loose enough you could get a pry bar under them and pull them. According to local legend, and you know how trustworthy that is, he did quite a number of them during his career.

I tried it on a house I was tearing down and all I accomplished was to waste my precious store of dynamite. Someone told me later it only works on barns or other open type buildings.

Ironwood · February 05, 2008, 08:19:18 PM

Perhaps I am a bit of a snob, but some barns are not worth reassembling. There is little redeaming value to many barns. I am all for a hewn chestnut decked and sided barn gingerly being disassembled, the reality is many barns are of common or inferior materials and SHOULD not be messed with. My grandfathers "depression" barn was built in a fashion in which it began to rot as soon as the last nail was driven. Just because it is called a "barn" doesn't mean it has inherent value. Sorry to my lack of romance on this, I love history but the bottom line is some aren't worht saving.

Ironwood

moonhill · February 06, 2008, 05:13:55 AM

Ironwood, you are right on, but with out a proper assessment we are all guessing, and it would be a shame to loose a viable structure. In my area of coastal Maine historic building are coming down left and right, via excavators, not even attempting to salvage, just splinters. Some are too far gone. But at least have it documented for historic purposes, there may be some interesting joinery in side to say the least, once its gone there is no getting it back. Have those old buildings looked at before they come down. Tim B.

thecfarm · February 06, 2008, 06:58:03 AM

Another member from Maine?You guys are joining up left and right.Update your profile so we all know where you are from.I missed you when you joined,I don't go to the timber framing threads much.If you need help with posting picture,holler,someone will help you.There is a help button at top that will show you how to post pictures.

Clovis · February 06, 2008, 02:58:25 PM

All this talk about pictures and I don't have any to show you guys. So this wekend I will try to make it up to Tupperville, Ontario and take some pic's for ya all to look at. There are no hand hewn timbers that i saw in it but there had been many sawmills around the area. (all gone now) Now, every thing that I have learned is from books but it looked like the posts and beams were done using the measured method not the scribed method. If thats the right terminology? Most joints looked housed. H-bents, top plate, no ridge beam but it did have structural purlins half way up the rafters that were suported by beams at 45 degree angles from the top plate to the pulin and up from the top of an H-bent.
Sound about right to any one? Again I will try to get some pics this weekend.

I think that saving as much as I can for the cottage would serve the old girl some justice. After all the farmer is a fellow cottager and 100 years from now the story will go somthing like this... These old beams here were brought to this island by a guy named Clovis and he got them from a guy in the area who had a farm and a cottage, his name was Joe.......

I think that alot of old historical homes were built with a mixture of new and used lumber. Clovis

Ironwood · February 06, 2008, 06:58:03 PM

Clovis,

You are exactly right, all things were labor intensive and reused as many times as feasible. Even down to the nails iin late 1800's buildings.

Ironwood

Don P · February 06, 2008, 07:05:58 PM

Try late 1960's :D

Ironwood · February 06, 2008, 07:34:21 PM

I have a few boxes of variuous sized wrought nails around, so I guess even into the next century ;D

Ironwood

moonhill · February 07, 2008, 06:07:21 AM

Clovis, it sounds like a square rule frame to me. Does it have any major sags it the roof line or bows in the walls?
thecfarm, I'm not sure what the proper edicate is for joining a fourm is, I just signed up and jumped in. As for pictures, I keep saying I am working on that. This is my new morning routine and don't have much time to devote to futher study on the inner workings of these machines and the ether net, but I am slowly working on it. I do see some Mainers on this site and wonder where they live, than get out the Gazetteer for a bit of understanding. I'm on page 26. Tim B.