iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Help with a cut plz

Started by JohnM, February 03, 2013, 06:32:24 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JohnM

Working on my firewood pile and I'm not sure how to attack this tree. ???  (Maybe the answer is 'don't'!  :o)  It splits about 8-10' up, that is my 036 with an 18" bar for reference and that orange(ish) dot shows where it starts to split.  It's split all the way to the base so I believe it's two different trees.  I'm thinking a normal face cut (start with the one on the right but not sure it matters ???) and plunge in for my back cut.  Any advice, thoughts, cautionary tales would be much appreciated. :)


 

And as a side note...does anyone know what kind of tree it is? :D  Showing my ignorance, I know. :-[  I 'believe' it is a red maple but I have a couple of elm around and really don't want to cut it if it's elm.  Here's a close up of the bark if that helps.


 

Thanks in advance for any tips and tricks.

JM

Posting 5min before the Superbowl...maybe someone will see this tomorrow. ;D
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

rick f

John, that is what i'd do. When you plunge cut the first notch the second then dump both at once.

That looks like a maple to me.

What part of eastern Maine are you?

Good luck
664 clark skidder
1- 562 husky
1- 254xp husky
1 - 268xp husky
1250 JD farm tractor with skid winch
5040 kubota farm tractor

Ianab

QuoteI'm thinking a normal face cut (start with the one on the right but not sure it matters ) and plunge in for my back cut.

Yeah, that's how I would attack it. Get the right hand leader on the ground first. With it's definite lean it's going to fall away cleanly. Then the bigger leader is a relatively straight forward job.

Watch that the branches aren't intertwined up the top and likely to drag some rubbish down as it falls. Don't hang around the stump as it starts to move, be some place else   :D

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Bill_G

Yep , cut the one on the right first unless they both have lean to the same side then you can fall them as one if you can cut low enough .

JuniperBoss

Is bore cut the same thing as plunge cut? If so yes I would plunge cut the one side. Stick the tip of the saw in and punch a hole right threw. From there cut the right side down and then you are good to go :). If it is sorta stuck to the other side then you might try pulling it down with a rope/winch by nailing something to it and tying a rope to it.
"The three great essentials to achieve anything worthwhile are, first, hard work; second, stick-to-itiveness; third, common sense." --- Thomas Edison

1270d

Sometimes the water that is between stems like that could have them frozen together.  You might have to drive a wedge between the stems to break that ice if it doesn't fall right away.

JohnM

OK, thanks guys.  The catch is (there's always a catch, right?! ;) :D) I've never done a plunge/bore cut in my life, so while I have general idea how to go about it, it has me nerved up a bit so just wanted to double check my math so to speak.  I'm pretty sure it will split right apart on it's own, the split is quite 'heavy' and that right side is limb heavy away from the split.

Quote from: rick f on February 03, 2013, 06:47:45 PM
John, that is what i'd do. When you plunge cut the first notch the second then dump both at once.

Umm, NO! ;D ;) :D  Maybe for someone with more experience but that is not me.  (It did cross my mind though. smiley_devil)  I'm right on the Airline in Clifton, Rick.  I believe you said you got your skidder around here, correct?

I won't have a chance to take a crack at it til at least Thur so if anyone thinks that it might be an elm speak up. ;D :D

JM
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

thecfarm

I would do the plunge to it too. Just go in a slight angle,with a good chain speed. I've cut many just like that. Some I had to cut apart too. I would go at a good comfortable height too. I don't get down on the ground with them trees. Than I go back and cut the stump down. I have some in groups of 4 to 8. These are from my grown up pasture that I'm claiming back to a field.
That is a Red Maple. You need the Forest Trees Of Maine book. It is put out by the Maine Forest Service. I got one free from a class I took. I brought one for my grandson last summer. I don't think it was more than $15,but I forgot. Just go to the Maine Forest website. I ordered it online and they sent me the book with a bill inside to pay for it!! Most don't send nothing without the money first. It's a very nice book. I kinda know the name of trees,but the latin names really come in handy.
Check out your local school night classes. Here in Farmington,Mt Blue,they have a chainsaw class. I heard it is a big help. Space is always limited to so many students too.
I went to save the link that WDH gave and saw the link to the above book I mentioned. $15 is the cost.
http://www.maine.gov/doc/mfs/pubs/ftm/ftm.htm
Click on to,Request a copy of Forest Trees of Maine-Centennial edition
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

1270d

If you re uncomfortable boring, practice on an high stump first.

Ianab

Main trick with bore cutting is to start the cut with the lower corner of the bar. So you hold the saw off on an angle (~30deg) from the direction that you want to bore. Once you get the cut started then you swivel the saw around so you are plunging straight in. Now the tip of the bar is buried in the tree and won't kick back like it can if you touch the upper tip of the bar.

Like suggested, practice it on a stump or a even a log where it doesn't matter if you get it crooked, and because it's firewood you can make the cut at a nice comfortable waist high, and trim up the stump later.

Last job I did was an old hedge of cedars, all multi-leader, 2 to 8 stems on each tree. So almost all of them where bore cut in some way. It's pretty easy once you get the hang of it, and a very good skill to have, even if you don't have to use it regularly.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

JuniperBoss

That is a great explanation Ian. Perfectly correct. That is the way I do it also. It is a very good skill to learn even for a once-a-month tree.
"The three great essentials to achieve anything worthwhile are, first, hard work; second, stick-to-itiveness; third, common sense." --- Thomas Edison

beenthere

Had a similar two-stem tree with an apparent seam that was iffy whether it was separated or ingrown.

Didn't know which way to fall this elm, so decided to remove the smaller stem which was about 16" diam.
Skinned bark off to see more of the seam. Then made a notch and a bore cut behind the notch.


Closer look at the seam


Next step was a vertical saw cut to separate along the seam and hopefully release that side stem.


The stem finally did fall with some careful cutting.


The remaining stem was about 30" diam. and not a problem to bring down.


Burlkraft sawed it up on his WM for some nice boards that were destined for firewood.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

GDinMaine

That is a great picture story beenthere..   
I actually use the bore cut way more then really necessary.  While the tree is still relatively stable it gives me one last chance to stop and look around before cutting away the back strap.  One last check for escape route, (extremely unlikely but) possible bystanders and one last look up the in the branches.  Then a quick cut and down it comes, unless I hang it up ;D.
It's the going that counts not the distance!

WM LT-40HD-D42

thenorthman

Fall em both at the same time. make yer face cut cross both stems as square to the join as possible and as low as possible.  From just the pics its hard to say whether or not its fully fused but its close enough that if you fall em both at the same time you should be in good shape, when maples grow together like that its almost a given that they will be limb locked, making taking down individual sides a pain in the crotch (get it puny...).

Worst case make a skin cut and see what the trunks look like, shouldn't be much bark in the join if they are in fact joined.

You really should practice boring, it can be a life saver some day.  I would start with downed logs  so you can get the feel of it in a more comfortable position,  RPMs are yer friend here, try to use bottom side of the tip until you are well past the sprocket, keep a good firm grip, and make sure yer chain brake is working good, try to keep yer left hand behind the brake handle (if'n yer wrong handed try to learn to use it right handed...).  It don't take much pressure but be firm with it...
well that didn't work

WDH

A quick check for red maple:  Look at the twigs that come off the branches.  They should come off in opposite pairs, that is called opposite branching.  Like this link shows:  http://dnr.wi.gov/org/caer/ce/eek/veg/treekey/decid1.htm

Elm will have an alternate branching pattern.  The twigs alternate along the branch rather than come off in pairs.


                                                                         
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

thecfarm

That is a nice link WDN. Thank you.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

JohnM

Quote from: WDH on February 04, 2013, 09:15:15 PM
A quick check for red maple:  Look at the twigs that come off the branches.  They should come off in opposite pairs, that is called opposite branching.  Like this link shows:  http://dnr.wi.gov/org/caer/ce/eek/veg/treekey/decid1.htm

Elm will have an alternate branching pattern.  The twigs alternate along the branch rather than come off in pairs.
                                                                       

I knew there was a reason I hung around here so much! ;)  Thanks, Danny! :)

And ty too Beenthere, great illustration.

Ray, I'm pretty sure I've seen that book before, will try to pick it up some day.  Maybe someone will have it for sale at the expo. ;D

I'll try to do pics (maybe even vid) of the cut.  Was hoping to get out there Thur but that's the wife's birthday.  The spout in the tub/shower sprays like crazy when you flick on the diverter (our water eats everything), so for her birthday present she's asked me to put in a new one and clean the drain.  She a wonderfully easy woman to please. ;D  So it looks like Thur is plumbing not sawing.  (There's other jokes here that I will opt to leave in the woodshed. ;) ;D)

JM
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

WDH

Get ready to go to Lowes at least three times  :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

JohnM

Quote from: WDH on February 04, 2013, 10:15:15 PM
Get ready to go to Lowes at least three times  :D.
Truer words have rarely been spoken... :(  "In theory" this is an hour tops project but as I said our water eats all things metal so something always breaks, twists or strips that shouldn't.  Thankfully a Lowes went in about 20min from me a few years ago as apposed to the 40min drive to HD prior.  I'd say Vegas has my over or under at 2.5 trips. ::) ;D :D

JM
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

thecfarm

Good luck with the Thursday job. And good luck with the tree.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WDH

Here is a proven mathematical relationship that will come in handy on this project.  I have expressed this fact of plumbing on here before:

1 trip to Lowes = 2 trips to Lowes   :D
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Stephen Alford

   Hey John M, great thread, just by you asking a lot of good information posted for those who might be doing the same thing.  Multiple stems are pretty common in the woodlots here.  The root ball stump area will slope off for a couple feet . Clearing debris in this area is important to prevent tripping or stepping on a piece of wood with the bark gone when your focusing on the cut process. Because of the form and square footage a clump occupies in the crown be sure and take a second look "up".  Look forward to pics of how it goes.   :)

 

This vertical spear was was on the back cut side of this clump.

 
logon

JohnM

Well, the deed is done.  The important half at least, still need to take down the second tree, just ran out of time/daylight today.  With a little practice and Ian's 30­° advice it was all pretty simple.  Per usual I was over thinking the room on this. :)  The tree was on a bit of a slope into the swampy area so that made lining everything up a bit more difficult.  Along with the plunge cut I had never used a Humboldt face before either, it 'felt' a little easier to do it this way.

Practice cut.


 
The first plunge was too high, the second too low but I ran with it.


 


 


 


 
A lot of ice down in between the two trees.  Took some slicing and several wedges to get the stump out of the way but that will make taking down the second tree much easier.


 

My first and only (until I get DSL...45min download for a 1min clip! :o) youtube vid.  If you're going to make a fool of yourself make sure it's on tape. ;) ;D :D
http://youtu.be/niTkxwo36XQ

And lastly, an example of what WDH was talking about...
Quote from: WDH on February 04, 2013, 09:15:15 PM
A quick check for red maple:  Look at the twigs that come off the branches.  They should come off in opposite pairs, that is called opposite branching.  Like this link shows:  http://dnr.wi.gov/org/caer/ce/eek/veg/treekey/decid1.htm

Elm will have an alternate branching pattern.  The twigs alternate along the branch rather than come off in pairs.

A branch from the maple I cut...


 

And the trunk and branch of what I believe is one of my 3-4 elm...(sound/look right?)


 


 

Minus the vid upload  >:( this was a fun project/thread/experience.  Thanks for all the help!

JM
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

WDH

Nothing succeeds like success  8).

Yes, that last pic is very elmy.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

thecfarm

You are a learning good. I like to cut about a few inches on each side of the tree too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Thank You Sponsors!