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Reforestation and Oak Trees

Started by RPeter, December 31, 2004, 07:43:31 PM

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RPeter

I am reforesting about 7 acres that has been used as crop land for about 10 years.  I had a forester tell me that oak trees would have a hard time growing because of "microbes" that would be missing in the soil.  Does this sound right to any of you?
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking."

WV_hillbilly

 Welcome to the forum   RPeter. I don't have an answer  just wanted to welcome you


  WV Hillbilly
Hillbilly

Oldtimer

I would think 7 acres could be "prepped" with exactly what Oaks wanted with a bit of research and some sweat equity....But I am not a forester...

I have often tried to get landowners to "plant" acorns after I harvest timber. If they gathered a basket full of them, and planted one basket a week-end, they could sprinkle a good sized lot with oak seedlings in no time. None ever did. In fact, most never even go look at what I did, save for what can be seen from the landing. They have trouble believing a man would work as hard as I do for a living. Marshmallows.
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SwampDonkey

Your biggest worry would be rodents gurdling the stems and deer chewing the tops off. I don't believe their has to be anything special in the soil for an oak. I've started alot in the garden and they are very easy to grow. I'd make sure the grass and herb layer of the field was under control with herbicide and then plant bareroot seedlings in early spring from a seed bed you can start in your garden. Plant the acorns in fall in rows that can be easliy weeded and cover with leaves. They'll germinate well in spring. Transplant the seedlings by year 5, as they have deep roots. If you planted the seed in rows they will be easier to lift from the seed bed.
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1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Wenrich

I happen to work on PA Tree Farm #1 a number of years ago.  There were some attempts at plantation oak, and they didn't fare all that well.  There were holes in the plantation where the survival rate was pretty low.

As for the microbes, I know that Doug fir has one out west.  They innoculate the roots with certain fungii that have a symbiotic relationship with the tree.  Without the fungii, they don't fare as well.  I imagine this is true with several species.  Something that hasn't been studied too much, so ignorance may come into play.

Why oak?  Oak prices are decent now, but there is no guarantee for that at harvest time.  Red oak has only been popular for the past 30 years.  Before that, there wasn't that much demand.  White oak has a longer term market acceptance, as does cherry, maple and walnut.

I planted a walnut plantation many years ago in the Harrisburg area.  Its now a development, so the trees are gone.  Several of those seedlings made it to my place, since we had some left over.  The growth rate on my shaley soil is pretty good and have some that are about 10-12 " after 25 years.

No matter what you plant, you will have more work to do to ensure the establishment of the trees.  Mowing between the rows will greatly reduce the mortality due to rodents.  High grass will give them cover.  There is also tubing available to protect against browse.

Herbicide should be applied around the trees to reduce grass competition within the couple of years.  We used stovepipe around the trees to protect from overspray.

You might want to check with the DNR to see about seedling availability.  Several years ago, we bought ours from Strathmeyer nursery.  
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MemphisLogger

RPeter,

I've done alot of invasive species irradication and reforestation and have seen pretty good success with bare stem oak seedlings--the foot tall ones you can get from your state forestry office in bundles. It seems to be the ones with the acorn still attached that do the best.

The areas I've dealt with were overgrown with Privet and Japanese Honeysuckle. We bush hog the area and apply Round-Up topically to the stems before planting the seedlings every 4 feet or so. Sure the deer and rabbits have at a lot of them but if you plant enough, enough will make it.

I've also done some work restoring old cotton fields. Here, oak doesn't do very well, mainly due to soil compaction. In these cases, Tulip Poplar does best at reclaiming the field and a subsequent oak planting 5-10 years down the road takes better.    
Scott Banbury, Urban logger since 2002--Custom Woodworker since 1990. Running a Woodmizer LT-30, a flock of Huskies and a herd of Toy 4x4s Midtown Logging and Lumber Company at www.scottbanbury.com

Oldtimer

Ron, I know that such a sybiotic (sp?) relationship exists between white birch and fir/spruce here in NH. The microbes of one help the other.  Foresters here have supposedly stopped treating the birch as a "trash" tree because of the discovery..
My favorite things are 2 stroke powered....

My husky 372 and my '04 F-7 EFI....

SwampDonkey

Role of mycorrhizae in forestry

Although this type of fungus is beneficial to plant growth it's hard to say it wouldn't occur on a field as naturally as in woodland if the site was left to nature for an extended period of time. I'm not so sure any particular tree needs this type of fungus in the time during its establishment from transplantings (short term). One would have to test the soil periodically during a trees development to see if the fungus hadn't been wind blown from surrounding areas to say that it would never establish in the plantation to give benefit to the trees. I don't think anyone has said anything to the contrary but I wouldn't be real concerned as long as the soil has sufficient nutrients, humus, texture (allowing oxidation) and moisture content. I've been invovled in planting thousands of acres of forest land and farms in trees and the most limiting factors are available moisture, nitrogen and weed competition.

cheers
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

RPeter


Thanks for all of the comments.  It looks like the consensus is that they will do ok.  

We are planting 7 acres on 12 foot centers.  This is 2100 trees.  Here is what we are planting:

350      Shagbark Hickory
350      Black Walnut
350      Red Maple
350      Red Oak
350      Bur Oak
200      Persimmon
150      White Oak

I am 55 years old.  Planting 12"" to 18"" bare root seedlings means that I might have some wood in 20 – 25 years.  What I am trying to say is I do not plan on doing much harvesting.  We will probably do some culling for firewood.  That's why I have planted the "dense" wood trees.

We plan on seeding with a clover rye grass mixture to stabilize the soil.  We will keep this cut with a tractor and a "bush hog".  We will also use herbicide to keep the grass/weed cover about 4 feet back from the trees.  

We do not think mice/voles will be much of a problem.  We are crossing our fingers with the deer.  They are the reason we are planting 12'' on center.

G.E.M. Forestry Service ( Melbourne, AR.)  will plant the trees for $5.00 a tree.  It would cost $2.00 a tree for cones and as you know they can cause some problems of there own.

Thanks for reading this long post.
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking."

Phorester


Your forester could be right.  I know that fields which have been in agricultural use for many decades, sometimes over 100 years, are the worst tree planting sites you can choose.  This is because of all the changes in the soil characteristics by farming.  

Compaction, pore size, bulk density, drainage patterns, usually a plow pan of virtually impervious soil a foot or so underneath the surface (where the bottom of the plow compacted the soil underneath it as the farmer plowed year after year).  Any tree-needed soil microbes, fungi, etc.,  that were there when the field was a forest are long gone.  The field has been converted from forest growing conditions to agricultural growing conditions.  

Our retired Research Forester always said the best way to plant an old field in hardwoods was to first plant it in one rotation of pine.  Pine is generally a pioneer plant species, and converts the soil conditions from agricultural to forest over the 20-50 years it takes for one rotation. then it's ready for hardwoods.  This mimics the natural plant succession process. Not very appealing for us humans to wait that long, is it?  So we plant hardwood seedlings, and they struggle with the soil conditions.

But using the practices mentioned in the other posts will help assure you will get a viable new hardwood forest. One other thing I recommend in very old fields is to subsoil the rows before the trees are planted, to break up the plow pan.  I even recommend subsoiling both ways on the tree spacing you want to use,  then plant the seedlings where the subsoil trenches cross.

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