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Waste Products - Sawdust and Flitches and slabs

Started by Westcoastct, December 13, 2018, 02:14:44 AM

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WLC

Slabs are given to a neighbor, used in the campfire here and even have one friend that gets slabs that I've sawn into firewood length for his daughter to paint on for crafts.  Sawdust all goes in the compost pile and eventually on the garden.
Woodmizer LT28
Branson 4wd tractor
Stihl chainsaws
Elbow grease.

Brucer

I give my sawdust away. Customer has to load it. Common uses are:

  • Soaking up fuel spills (local gas station).
  • Mixing with toxic metal dust (local welding shop). They throw it on the floor after grinding certain alloys, then sweep it up. The moisture in the sawdust keeps the dust to a minimum.
  • Traction under vehicle wheels on icy surfaces.
  • Garden mulch to control weeds in paths. Has to be replaced each year, otherwise it turns into topsoil.

Slabs I bundle up and sell as firewood. Here's one of my racks, with a complete bundle to the left. I use a pair of 2700 lb. poly straps to keep the bundle tight and easy to handle. Customer buys it by the bundle.



A lot of customers will put ratchet straps around the bundle at 16" intervals so they can saw the entire bundle.



Then they cut part way through (between the straps), roll the bundle, and saw the rest of the way through, cinching the straps as they go. The short bundles can be rolled or lifted into a wood shed.



Bundles are a mix of slabs and edgings.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Ianab

Quote from: FLPINERAT on December 13, 2018, 08:14:56 PM
Who'll be the first to build a wood burning gasifier and run their mill on it??
Could be done I'm sure...
But I'd like to see a "hybrid", with Lurker's Sterling engine, an electric car style battery pack, and then an electric mill (and accessories). 
That way the output from the wood burner need not match the load from the mill at any given time, and you have instant start. Run off the battery until the generator gets up to heat, And it's still generating when the mill is off for any period, and re-charging the battery. If you get slack and the fire burns down, you see the battery gauge dropping, and need to throw in some more wood. As long as you end the day with a mostly charged battery, the system is good to go again in the morning. 
The basic technology parts to do this exist, just not for a sawmill. A Nissan Leaf car has a 110hp electric motor, a 30kw/h battery, and the controls to make it work, in a sort of affordable compact car. Of course it probably cost Nissan a billion or so to develop, but if you can sell a million of them, you can make your investment  back. Markets not really there for a small sawmill, but I wonder if a "universal" power pack with the Sterling engine couldn't be a mass produced "Thing". It could integrate with solar / wind / micro-hydro / pedal power etc. 
If a "turnkey" box could be mass produced that did all that then it should appeal to the off-grid types etc. Even if the wind and sun is missing, you can throw in some wood and keep the lights on. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

longtime lurker

The issue with working Stirling's is size.

If you go online and do a search you can downloaded plans for a simple gasifier developed by FEMA following the oil crisis of the 70's  With pretty much stuff from the farm shed or hardware store you can convert your carbureted petrol car across to run on wood in a weekend. And if you run out of wood Thursday you turn a valve, adjust the carby back to regular settings, and feed it regular fuel out the has tank. They're compact, because all you are really doing is changing the type of fuel your regular internal combustion engine runs on.

Here ya dont even need to go searching for those plans - I got them on file already and will attach  :D


I made a tobacco tin Stirling when I was a kid. Hold it in your hand and it will run off the heat difference between hand and air temp. Way cool project for kids big and small. But a working Stirling is a different beast. A unit that will power your car is about car sized... Like a working steam engine basically, but without needing boiler steam with the risks that come with steam. But were talking long stroke pistons and big flywheel and... Big.

Great stationary engines but the size limits their application. I too think a hybrid Stirling is the best bet for sawmill power, but the size will limit uptake to industrial type fixed installations... Too bulky for the backyard. That limited application issue has  been what stalled development of new Stirling's for the last 100 years.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Sixacresand

Quote from: Haleiwa on December 13, 2018, 12:51:54 PM
There is a Scandinavian practice of burying wood under topsoil and planting vegetables in it.  Supposedly the rotting wood provides nutrients and retains water for the roots.  Look up kugel garden.
I did not know that.  
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

charles mann

What about those electric pellet grills for the hardwood sawyers? The way i understood the guys from treager, the dust is dampened with water, just enough to slightly bind the dust together, then augured into an extrusion tube, where a cylinder ram is pushed against the dust and heat is applied to the tube, "cooking" the dust just long enough to caramelize the outside. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Magicman

Manufacturing pellets is not for the faint at heart, and sawdust is a poor product to make them from.  Papermill quality chips are used which first go through a hammermill.  They do not add heat but rather have to get rid of the excess heat that is generated from the dies which compress and extrude the pellets.  Most "successful" pellet mills are government subsidized without which they would not be so successful. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Southside

Quote from: Magicman on December 14, 2018, 07:00:28 PMMost "successful" pellet mills are government subsidized without which they would not be so successful. 


Spot on - and most all of them eventually go "BOOM" at least once from a combustible dust issue.  
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White Oak Meadows

WV Sawmiller

   I posted this question a while back and after the responses came in I decided pellet mills were not worth the expense and effort.
Anybody making wood pellets? in Firewood and Wood Heating
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

charles mann

MM, i was just stating what the treager guy here in the portland, or area told me when he came to the hanger to check on the grills and see if we needed anything else. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

rjwoelk

Picked up a load of hardwood out of midwest. They tried to make pellets from their production. Shut it down . Could not make it work financially.  Use the chips and sawdust to heat water for the kilns.
The moisture has to be just right. The chips a certain size.
Out of
India has one that makes a log. 
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

Magicman

I understand Charles.  There are many heaters and other appliances that require a supply of pellets and it would be to Treager and other manufacturer's advantage for the pellet supply to be readily available and uninterrupted. 

Since this topic is searching for ideas to use our sawmill "Waste Products" my response was directed toward the fact that reliable pellet manufacture uses papermill grade chips and not sawdust.  Since I have personally toured a pellet plant I do have some firsthand knowledge regarding the pitfalls of the pellet making process.  I left the plant very unimpressed because it was obvious that it was a money pit for subsidized $$$.  I saw too many people doing nothing and too much high dollar equipment sitting idle.  :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

longtime lurker

The problem with pellets is that overall they're a dumb idea.... you're burning coal (or at least using electricity) to make compressed wood you so you can put it in a fire and burn it. From start to finish that is a completely inefficient process, and just a silly idea really. ;D
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

moodnacreek

Have herd of burning chips from a bottom unloading silo stoked into burner. they say the chips on the bottom can be dry enough.  Anyone know about this?

longtime lurker

Have a look at the website for Borealis Wood Power. They do turnkey CHP setups, from memory they use the exhaust heat from the power plant to cycle through the chip storage hopper for drying the fuel.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Brad_bb

I looked into a pellet mill in the past.  It's just not economical with the upfront capitol cost, and the labor to produce vs the volume of dust from a single woodmizer.  

The only efficient thing I've found to do with the dust is burn it.  I burn dust, bark and planer chips in my vortex burn barrels.  We burn almost every mill day.  Many times fill both barrels two or three times in our typical 6-7 hour day.  Bark takes up a lot of room.  With double vortex barrels though, it burns each load fast.  The thing I lament is how much heat is going to waste each time.  If only we could capture that heat for the shop or house....  the problem is the inconsistency of the material.  If you ran a water line through the barrels, I'm not sure how long it would last.  The barrels can get really hot fast, and then cool down pretty quickly.  

We place slabs on the saw bucks each day and cut them up into firewood length.  We move the bucks as the pile grows behind them.  My off bearer takes the firewood for his garage man cave wood stove and keeps it 80 degrees in there every night all winter.  I've stopped there and it's like a sauna.t
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

tmbrcruiser

I've figured out the simple plan for me, give it away! I sold a few loads of sawdust and the buyer complained it was to fine. The other problem is separating walnut and cherry dust, can't let that go near horses. Slabs and edging boards pile up and I cut thin first cuts so not very good as firewood. 

So I purchase a 16' dump trailer and haul the slabs and dust to a horizontal hammer grinder to be made into mulch. It takes two seconds to grind a week of slabs from me but they don't mind a little free wood. Simple and fast for me.
Once you get sap in your veins, you will always have sawdust in your pockets.

MikeON

I use the sawdust and planer chips for fuel for making maple syrup.
Woodmizer LT40HD Super.  WM Single Blade Edger,  John Deere 4310 tractor, M35A2C Deuce and a Half truck

ellmoe

Quote from: Brad_bb on December 15, 2018, 10:06:46 PM
I looked into a pellet mill in the past.  It's just now economical with the upfront capitol cost, and the labor to produce vs the volume of dust from a single woodmizer.  

Did you mean , "It's just NOT economical , ( instead of NOW )? If so, I concur.


Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

Brad_bb

Correct, NOT economical given the cost and labor.  Same goes for paper/sawdust fire starter logs.  Also, Woodmizer dust is no good for animal bedding because it's too fine.  Like us, breathing the fine dust is not good for the animals.  Half or more of my dust is walnut also, and that will kill animals.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Brian C.

We keep trying for ways to get rid of the waste. Sawdust isn't a real problem as we are behind a horse barn and just dump the dust in the manure pile. But slabs flitches and edgings are. Jim just burned 4 piles of them. They were 16 ft long by 8 ft deep and 10 to 12 ft high. We advertised on Craig's list, face book  and word of mouth. Take all you want $20. You load and cut. People don't want to work. It would be a good workout. I guess they don't have time. Probably at the Gym.

rjwoelk

Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

dgdrls

 lots of folks around here use slabs for
shop stoves and the likes.  Challenge becomes "customers" who come and offer
to take it for zero dollars and when you push back and say "offer me something"
they get offended.

For me, its been a challenge for certain and the less of a recognized "firewood" species it is the bigger the challenge.

D

Bandmill Bandit

I get that kind of brainless rhetoric some time too. I generally just Ask if the person can read? That is enough of an embarrassment that they usually just leave.

Had one guy come back a few times and tell me "See if I dont clean it up you have too"! I said NO! If and when I need it cleaned up I call the boy scouts. They clean it up AND bundle and sell for their camping fund and I generally have to hold material back for them".

Stupid is not something that I am willing to fix! But I do keep duct tape handy in case the noise gets too loud!      
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

New sawyer

I burn my slabs in my outside wood boiler . The saw dust gets spread in the field. I like the slabs . I cut them 4' long and they fit nicely in the boiler.
Life is what you make of it. You own your own decisions.

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