Simonds mismanufactured bits

[Sawyerfortyish]

I've been having a lot of trouble recently making my mill run correctly. After we put a new blade on it still would run in to the log. Well it runs great now. Alignment was not the problem. We had a number of problems besides a new blade we replaced the mandrell and bearings with new. We had bad collers so the blades all needed the be hammered again. It was at this point the saw Dr brought it to my attention that simonds had a bad run of bits for a time. I have several boxes I'm trying to use up. The regular bit not the longs or standall they are good. But the regular bits if you look at them are shaped longer on the board side than on the log side. This causes you to sharpen off square and makes the bit off center of the blade. It takes a little more attention and care to make sure everything is right when sharpening.  Now I can saw lumber there for a while I was questioning how in the heck did I saw lumber for 28 yrs and not know how to make things run right. That blade running into the log was driving me nuts. Besides not being able to cut anything square. Were all good now and playing catch up on the orders.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday Mate

Its hard when you get out your bag of tricks to fix a problem and nothing works then you have to make up a new one  ;) ;D  ??? : :(  ;) :D :D :D ;D ;D 8) 8)

Ive been stumped like that afew times with gear not running the way it should  ;) but thats what makes this game intresting Mate  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)

Regards Chris

[Jeff]

I think its been going on for a while. I started having trouble with Simonds bits back in 2005 the last year I ran the big mill. I was having the same problems until I started going through and examining every tooth before I put them in.

[DanG]

I have had problems as well.  I got some new bits from MD in which the metallurgy was flawed.  They would break every time I poked one of them into a hardwood log.  You could see the difference in the metal between them and the old teeth.  MD replaced them along with my damaged shanks, and they said I was not the only victim.

[Jeff]

Come to think of it, I forgot to mention that too.  I had far more teeth simply break off in the last couple years I sawed then I did in the first 20. When a tooth breaks off, it can take several teeth behind it out as well if you are sawing big wood as the following teeth hit the broken tooth still in the kerf

[DanG]

Jeff, do you recall noticing any difference in the appearance of the bits?  My old ones had shiny, high-quality looking steel in the tooth body, but the new ones were black and dull looking, like plain old cast iron.

[Jeff]

Its been enough years where my recall isn't dependable other then I do remember that the inside broken teeth seem to appear, for lack of a better word, crystalline. But that was impossible for me to compare to the inside of an unbroken tooth. :-\

[Ron Wenrich]

Last year I started to have some major issues with Simonds.  I couldn't keep the bits sharp at all, and they also broke.  It never was the same tooth, but it would be in different parts of the saw.  When they got dull, they would either push or pull.  Nails simply wiped the teeth out.  Sometimes I would only get a couple of days out of a set of teeth. 

I complained to the sawmill supply guy, and it took a couple of months for the rest of the world to catch up to me.  Then everyone was having problems. 

We ended up doing some metal tests on them, and even tried to retemper them.  We tried to change the Rockwell.  It seemed they were too soft.  Retempering made them more brittle.  We also contacted the Simonds rep and they were interested in what we were doing, but not to the point to help us out too much. 

I changed over to chrome teeth and that pretty well solved the sharpness problem.  Although, they still don't stay as sharp as they should.  The underlying tooth is still flawed.  Older teeth seem to work better, but teeth made during last summer were the pits.  I have run some late 2009, early 2010 that seem to be OK in chrome.  I won't go back to the regulars.

Sawyerfortyish:  How do you like the Payne saw?

[Sawyerfortyish]

Ron now that everything is straightened out I love it. Saw all day true lumber 8)

[bandmiller2]

If we have trouble with Simonds we don't have anywhere to go.I still have, for me, a lifetime supply of bits from back in the eighties.Hopefully they will cure the manuf. glitch and get back to their usally good bits.Won't a jockey straighten out a poorly ground bit they register on the plate.??Frank C.

[Jeff]

My problems were not in the way they are ground, its the way they were cast.

[bandmiller2]

Jeff,I wish I still had my contacts in Fitchburg to find out what the real problem was,bad steel or bad heat treat.Frank C.

[Brian_Rhoad]

I ran into the "offset" teeth at least 10 years ago. They were teeth sold under the "American" brand. I was told that they were Simonds teeth put in a different box. The teeth were made with all of the taper on one side. I forget which side the offset was on, but one side was almost straight or square with the tip and the other side was tapered. I think the taper was on the log side on a right handed mill. I was contacted by a local mill that was having problems with the saw running into the log. It got very close to cutting into a headblock. They were trying everything they knew to do and still had problems. I looked at the teeth and they were all offset. They had a full box of new teeth that had the same offset.

A jockey grinder won't help because the tooth is made wrong. With all of the taper on 1 side the saw will pull to that side. You would have to sharpen the tooth on an angle to compensate for the offset. It is just like putting more set on one side of a band saw blade. The blade will want to pull to that side. The only thing I know to fix the problem is to swage the tooth heavy to the opposite side of the taper so you have the same amount of tooth tip on each side of the blade. The tip needs to be centered on the blade body.

[Ron Wenrich]

I would have problems as I sharpened back on the tooth.  For me, the saw wanted to walk out of the log (left handed mill).  As the tooth got shorter, the problems increased.  I just trimmed the offending side with a file.  Just a short stroke on the corner of each tooth and that would straighten the cut for a while. 

[Sawyerfortyish]

Thats how I sharpen. First I file then swedge then sharpen. The teeth don't last as long and you don't get the mileage out of them. So when these boxes are gone I'll use a differant style. I wish there was someone else out there that for once would not sell out to simonds. I really liked the IKS bits. Simonds bought them out.

[bandmiller2]

Fourtyish,I hear you, its called monopoly and it smells like lobster pot bait.Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

To the best of my knowledge bits are fordged into dies then ground uncle Sy must have been trying to get a few extra miles from them.I find it hard to believe theirs no european co. that manuf.bits.Does anyone know are our bits and shanks standard around the world or are their outher systems??Frank C.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Frank there use to be one manufacturer in finland that use to make them but i think that line was dropped years ago it use to be about the size of an F/2 1/2 style Mate

I use the Arsaw Tct Super bits and my familiy has for about 20 odd years and never had a drama with them 

Regards Chris

[whiskers]

Just curious, has anyone from Simonds posted here?  If not, now would be a great time to jump in before the water gets any hotter. We use Simonds bits and shanks and I 'd like to know more, surely there's more of those defective bits still in their inventory. With the cost of headsaws the risk of damaging the plate doesn't sit well here. Our saw is a 48" 8/9 2 1/2 standard if there's any recommendation from you other circle sawyers of a different manufacturer. Thanks

[Ron Wenrich]

There are no other manufacturers.  They have left Simonds absorb all other manufacturers in both the US and Canada.  I used Hoe teeth, and Simonds took them over.  So, I changed to IKS.  Simonds took them over.  They also took over Disston a long time ago. 

There is one in China, but from what I've heard, they make Simonds look good. 

I'm not sure if there is as much of a problem with the 2 1/2 pattern.  We are running the BDF pattern of tooth. 

[bandmiller2]

Does anyone know does Arsaw use Simonds bits to braze the carbide tips to,or do they forge their own.?? May be good form when you find a good lot of bits to stock up. Frank C.

[DanG]

Well, I'm not so sure Simonds isn't outsourcing to that Chinese outfit.

[bandmiller2]

Do most of you circular sawyers save your old bits,every mill I've seen has a big coffee can full.Who knows someday we may have to braze carbide to those old bits to keep sawing.Frank C.

[Jeff]

I did. I had a bedpan full of em. :D   I always saved the best out of the teeth when I changed, just in case I damaged teeth in another change, I could go through my stash and find replacements of a similar length.

[Tripp]

I have a big coffee can full o bits from the previous owner. I sorted similar lengths out into sets and used them when I first started sawing. Now when I remove a full set they get put in cup and go onto a shelf in the shop. I may never need them, but I have the bits ever get in short supply.

Tripp