Neighbor killed

[9shooter]

A neighbor was killed this past week while cutting firewood alone. Apparently he felled a tree which knocked a dead limb off of an adjacent tree that hit him in the back of the head. The small consolation was they figured death was instantaneous. At 48 yrs. old he left a widow and kids. I have worked with local firewood cutters, and I always freely give advice whether solicited or not. I don't care how long they have been doing dumb things or how smart they think they are. I always make suggestions when ever I see something unsafe. I expect the same 'courtesy'. It sure makes it harder to get access to local woodlots when locals keep getting maimed or killed. We've lost 2 locals in the last year. (my friend claims 5 were lost this last year, but I know of only 2) .
        I sometimes wonder if it would'nt be good to require a saftey class for chainsaw ownership. Something similar to hunter saftey. I AM NOT an advocate for big government, but I wonder...........

[PawNature]

Sorry to hear about your neighbor. Being in the woods cutting anything is a dangerous business at best.

[slowzuki]

Such a shame.  I recently got a bit of backlash for mentioning something was unsafe.  A gentleman decide that a tree was too rotten to safely cut so he pushed it over with his backhoe.  The tree appeared to be 80 ft tall and very large diameter.  I told him the cab of the hoe wouldn't stop the top of the tree much better than his saw helmet.

[jon12345]

If you've never heard of the 'Darwin Awards' do a search on Google, you will be amazed :D

[JimBuis]

A neighbor was killed this past week.........I sometimes wonder if it would'nt be good to require a saftey class for chainsaw ownership. Something similar to hunter saftey. I AM NOT an advocate for big government, but I wonder...........

Safety is a good thing to know more about, but the reality is that some things are dangerous.  Completion of that safety course would not have stopped that falling limb.

IMHO,
Jim

[asy]

Jon,

The Darwin awards are for people who get killed doing really stupid things, like swimming with toasters.

Especially things that should have been DanG obvious when ya started.

I think this is a little different, it's called a tragic accident.

asy :D

[Ianab]

Safety is a good thing to know more about, but the reality is that some things are dangerous.  Completion of that safety course would not have stopped that falling limb.

Maybe not, but a safety course would have taught:
1 - look up and check for dead limbs / vines etc
2 - get away from the falling tree
3 - Wear a hard hat.

Now I dont know exactly what happened, and you can do all those things and still get killed, but it's a LOT less likely.

I'm not a fan of more regulations, but I am a fan of safety courses, well usefull ones at least.

Cheers

Ian

[BBTom]

Ian,

What politicians are you going to trust to come up with the rules??   

[Ianab]

Thats why I'm NOT a fan of more rules  :

Encouraging people to get proper training is a good thing though.

The course we recently went on was 2 x 1/2 days of basic chainsaw operation. It was designed for farmers not loggers (they have their own more advanced courses) and was paid for by the Govt workplace insurance, farmers federation and a couple of other organisations so was free to participate in. Doing a course isn't allways going to save your life, but it MIGHT.

Cheers

Ian

[Kevin]

That's the first thing to do when you walk into the work area, look up and around, remove any hazards before falling any trees.
The problem is complacency, we all get complacent.
Even the pros get killed and the ones that don't usually have a few close calls.

[Jayson]

Very sorry to hear about your neighbor.Safety courses are always good.But if the people who need the info are not seeking it out, there is not much we can do.My cousin was involved in a near death felling incident a couple of weeks ago.Sounds like a similar situtation.Simple felling,unseen vine(or not looked for),dead snag nearby = severe concussion,nose broken in 2 places,black eyes and a neandertal forehead.He has helped me many times and I always stress that you can not be in a hurry to be hurt for it happens all too fast already.For you guys that get blasted for your safety advise,do not stop giving it.There apparently are still a couple of guys out there that don't know everything and we need your info.Has anyone put together a safety checklist for new saw operators?

[JimBuis]

To ensure I have not been misunderstood, I am very safety conscious and encourage everyone to get the proper safety training.  However, those of us who are from the good old U.S. of A. should not look for big government to protect us or to mandate our safety.

Our stupid legal system and federal government are responsible for mandating such safety requirements as McDonald's and other restaurants having to print "CAUTION----Hot!!" warnings on coffee cups!!

We have allowed our country to become a place where the intellectually challenged are able to get rich by sueing someone.

Be safe!  Be careful!  Leave the lawyers and politicians out of this!

IMHO,
Jim

[sawguy21]

Jayson, I sell saws and most of my customers have little or no previous experience with them. I stress safety and offer tips, especially if they state they 'just want to knock down a few trees' but I can't hold their hand. Some of them try to impress me with their knowledge or dismiss my warnings with'I know what I'm doing'.
However, as Jim points out, we cannot force them to adopt a safe attitude (unless they fall under WCB rules). There are no laws against ignorance or stupidity.

[Ianab]

Has anyone put together a safety checklist for new saw operators?

Try these 2 links

Basic chainsaw operation.
http://www.osh.govt.nz/order/catalogue/pdf/chainsaws-2006.pdf

Basic and intermediate tree felling
http://www.osh.govt.nz/order/catalogue/pdf/treefell.pdf

They are PDFs so you can save them, print them out and read at your leisure or give them to your buddies. The felling gets into some pretty advanced stuff, but I guess OSH have learned that just telling people not to do something wont stop them. Better to tell them how to do it safely. Has a lot more info than the manuals that come with the chainsaw.

I suspect saw manufactures in the US may not want to give out too much info to basic users, in case someone actually tries to bore cut a leaner from both sides while using a winch off a deadman and sprains their pinky finger and sues them?

But that might just be my cynical outlook  ;)

Cheers

Ian

[jon12345]

I apologize for my previous post, I wasn't trying to be insensitive but was refering to slowzuki's post. That guy shoulda known better. The sad thing is, there are a lot of unsafe practices that guys get away with in the woods every day and a lot of macho men too stubborn to even listen to suggestion  :

[PawNature]

To ensure I have not been misunderstood, I am very safety conscious and encourage everyone to get the proper safety training. However, those of us who are from the good old U.S. of A. should not look for big government to protect us or to mandate our safety.

Our stupid legal system and federal government are responsible for mandating such safety requirements as McDonald's and other restaurants having to print "CAUTION----Hot!!" warnings on coffee cups!!

We have allowed our country to become a place where the intellectually challenged are able to get rich by sueing someone.

Be safe! Be careful! Leave the lawyers and politicians out of this!

IMHO,
Jim

You get my vote Jim.
When the Government sponsors a course or training etc. and states that it is free to the public it really burns my buns cause it aint free. Our tax dollars pay for it.

[9shooter]

I see I stirred the big government pot that always causes me to lose my appetite.  I really hate regulations imposed by township yuppy yogurt eaters.  :D I just have to revisit saftey ideas every time someone I know goes and commits tree suicide.  One idea I employ is having my sons visit the saftey section of this fine forum and do regular reading.  I've learned a few things here myself and realized I had been playing Russian rulette with an unknown number of bullets in an unknown number of cylinders........... Perhaps if saw shops gave out the address of this fine place to new saw owners, it might save a few from getting maimed or worse. It would also be nice to have local saw saftey classes offered by some local pro timber industry concerns. Maybe the county extension office. I have worked in the auto industry for 28+ yrs. and have to attend saftey classes on a regular basis. Some classes are OSHA mandated. It still does'nt keep the darwin types from killing themselves, but it might keep them from killing ME.

[rebocardo]

> But that might just be my cynical outlook 

No, that is about right, except, they might try to sue the person that sold the gas used for the chainsaw too  :D

[beenthere]

To add to this thread, a man lost his life last week and wearing a hard hat may have saved him.
He was logging, dropped a tree that hung up in another tree. He pulled the hung tree down with his skidsteer. When he walked to the down tree to remove the chain, a limb fell on his head and instantly killed him.
No hardhat, which may not have saved him, but we wont know either. 

[RSteiner]

Sorry to hear of the loss of your neighbor.

I'm not an advocate of more rules and regulations set by the government for any thing.  However, we don't let a young person go out and drive a car without giving them instruction and lessons. 

I think the legal system is to be blamed to a certian extent.  There have been judgments in the millions of dollars against companies and individuals who sell things that people have used many times in the wrong way and got hurt.  I remember back about 15 years ago buying a non-professional model chainsaw and having to sign a bunch of paperwork stating I undestood the personal danger of using that saw.  The dealer was required by his insurance company and the saw manufacturer to go over all this information with the customer. 

It would be a wonderful thing if each states County Extension Service or a like agency conducted a formal training program at little or no cost to all why were interested.  Kind of like a hunter safety program for chainsaws.  Maybe area business could offer a discount on safety protection equipment to those who completed the course.

It may save the life or limb of someone and not be more government intrusion in our lives.  I have helped several young men learn to be a little safer in the woods over the years.  There is great reward when they come to you and tell you of a situation where they were able to identify a bad situation and handle it in a safe manner.

There are some good programs out there such as the Game of Logging but the cost and in this area the availability of going to one of those training sessions has kept many people away.

Randy

[beenthere]

I also don't think we need more rules or regulations. Just more sharing info as to what can happen in the woods should help some. I often wonder if just going in the woods without a hard hat is not smart. But I regularly walk in the woods without mine, unless I have the chainsaw in hand. Maybe I'll change that, and even have the grand children put one on just to get the point across. 

The Game of Logging session I just signed up for is only $75. I hope that it is NOT funded in any part with my tax money. In fact, I called this morning to find out, and was told the WI DNR does not have a hand in putting it on.  Way too much tax money is spent that way IMO. Nothing is free, and non-chainsaw users shouldn't have to pay for my training, I don't think. 

There is plenty of info around that tells a person when to use a hard hat. I don't abide by it all the time, and more training won't likely change my habits until I want to change them.  :

Just some additional thoughts

[crtreedude]

Sorry to here about the neighbor.

Safety gear is good - and safety mindset is necessary too. No job is worth dying for - except for protecting others. The biggest issue I think is on two sides - the beginners and the old-timers.

Beginners haven't been scared yet so they think there is nothing to worry about, old-timers can get too relaxed with the safety precautions and find out they are necessary.

And then there is just plan not thinking. We had a working once that nearly got himself killed because he liked to whack trees with a stick - dead ones. Really stupid.

[rebocardo]

> liked to whack trees with a stick - dead ones

I guess he liked to give the yellow jackets an advanced warning  smiley_whacko   ?