Alaskan Mill Questions

[fox]

This is my first post to the message board.  If this is off topic, let me know.  Are there any mill orders locally to Tampa?  I live in Florida and am wanting to set up an Alaskan Mill to be used strictly for my own use.  The wood would be used for personal crafts and furniture making and I was wondering what is the best chainsaw to get.  I've read on websites the Husky3120 or the Stihl 066. Is that much power necessary?  What Alaskan Mill model would you recommend?  Could somebody point me in a direction or offer some advice?  Thanks a lot.  

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Welcome to the Forum, Fox.  I'm across the State, in Sebastian.  What Species of trees are you planning to saw???  We have a couple of Alaskan owners among us. ;D
  I'm sure you will hear from someone with experience, real soon.
  What kind of woodworking do you do, furniture wise???

[DanG]

Hey, another Florida guy. AWRIGHT!  I'm located at Chattahoochee, up near Tallahassee.
Skip down to the Chainsaw forum and look around. There's lots of discussion about saws that are appropriate for milling. Some real expert advice can be found there.

[fox]

I was planning on cutting whatever I could get.  How do you guys get your wood?  I was planning on asking some local contractors if I could come into a site they were planning on clearing and pick out a few trees.  Or I was going to call the county arboriculturist (I think that's what they're called?).  I'd like to get some cypress or some pecan or other hickories.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks.  I make a lot of outdoors furniture.  I'm just getting started so am working on a lot of my woodworking skills.

[GarryW]

My first mill was an Alaskan. It was a 36 inch unit. I ended up getting the ripping chain, oiler, and electic sharpener from Granberg. I powered it with a Stihl 046 with a 36"  blade, but more horsepower would have been better. I cut oak and pine with the mill. I ended up touching up the blade after every couple of cuts.

It was slow, noisy, and hard on the back. But it did produce lumber and it convinced me that I liked to cut logs and to get a bigger mill.

Good luck, you'll get the sawmill bug.  

[IndyIan]

Hi Fox,

I got a 36" alaskan this year.  I've been using it in my woods on logs that are too big for my atv to skid.  I've got a husky 372 and a 36" bar with oregon ripping chain.  It works pretty well in softwoods but its definetly working.

There are circumstances where the alaskan is the right tool as it is very portable, if you don't need portability then you might want to price out some local sawmillers.  The alaskan does work well, people are amazed how smooth and straight the boards are.  

As for saws, the 385 or 395 from husky will probably be better as they have some chain speed over a 3120.  If your going to do 4' wide hardwood slabs them the big saw is what you want.

Search the messages here and you'll find the answer to most of your questions.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/milling/

Have fun!
Ian

[raycon]

I use an alaskan mill with a 066. I have a 36" bar on the saw and use what ever chain is sharp at the moment. Sharp chain is key.I
have a range from full chisel to semi-chisel.  An oiler on the nose is a good idea as well.

I'm given a lot of large  trees (over 36" in diameter) usally maple.
My maximum slab width is a around 30". Don't cut to the maximum throat of the mill. Its a bummer when you get hung up and have to back the saw out  (in my case usally the head runs into a obstacle and I can't flex the bar around it).

If slabbing to just get wood back on to my property I use an aluminum ladder layed parallel to the heart of the log to get my first cut.
Then I'll use a lumbermate attachment to square up the two sides perpendicular to the first cut. Its a slow process but rewarding.

An 066 (or equivalent brand) is as low as I'd go in HP. If I were to buy another saw I'd go with an 088.

[Bigdogpc]

Welcome to the forum!!!!  GREAT bunch of folks here!  I'm over in Plant City, not too far from you.  I'm running a Timberking manual mill but have a 372 Husky that I use with a 32" bar for cutting trees.  It pulls the chain ok but I would think you might need a bigger one.  A LOT is going to depend on what you cut and how big it is.  Be forwarned, sawmilling is addictive!

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Hello again, Fox.
I'll leave the bulk of my answer on the Chainsaw Forum section, but here is an explanatory note about what Indylan said, concerning speed:

Both the Stihl 090 and the Husqvarna 3120 are bigger, lower RPM engines.   The Stihl is governed at 8000 RPM, if my memory serves me.  I bought my 090 new, just before Stihl discontinued marketing them in North America.  This decision was intentional - buying a slower, high torque engine.  My reasoning was this:
   1.   I wanted big slabs, 30" or more in very tough woods.
   2.   I wanted a beefy engine which I thought could take
          cutting on 100 degree days.
   3.    Even though I am a hobby miller, too, I wanted
          a time-proven machine.
    4.    I hoped to have a power head that would last a very
            long time.
    5.    The idea was to buy one "big enough", first.
Good luck, as you consider what you really will be cutting.  That is what will determine your needs.
Phil L.

[KiwiJake]

Just a question, what kind of feed rate could you expect out of an alaskin mill using an 066 cutting 400mm wide log (ripping chain) at about 4m long?

I've just heard that they are pretty slow, I would like to know if this is true, from what I gather, cutting just the radius of the log takes time and you've got the assistance of the chainsaw claws to give leverage too.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Lessee Kiwi
400mm = approx.  16" dia. log;  by 4meter =  just under 13' long?

What would you guys say for a thru-the-heart cut?   Four minutes?  Yep, that's slow, compared to a swinger, but you only have $800 dollars in your equipment, compared to what, 15K$ American.    My hobby will have to grow some.   I had to choose what matched my wife's  my budget !  

( Of course, I do dream of a Peterson production frame for Christmas one fine year!)

Phil L.    

[KiwiJake]

No pitch intended, I just wanted an idea on how quick these things cut. That would be a hardwood log I take it? For something portable enough to stick under your bed it's pretty good value I wreckin. :D

[Kevin]

Somewhere between three and four minutes per 12' cut.
It's labor intensive, noisy, dirty, stinky and loads of fun.
Set up time is what kills you.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

...And, by the way, Fox,
If you haven't seen the book,  Chainsaw Lumber Making,  author : Will Malloff, publisher :  Taunton Press,  try to get hold of it.  (Amazon.com) If you take his ideas, then put a rechargeable drill and deck screws in place of his old brace-driven lag idea, you will have a good picture of how its done.  Following that, these forums are invaluable.
Phil L.

[rebocardo]

I have a Husky 365 (may return it - oiling problem)  with a 28 inch bar. Can I use the Alaskan and set it up for a permanent installation (using angle steel instead of ladders etc.) and just push or drag the wood through?

I want it for one main reason. Turn firewood into dimensional wood. I want to turn logs into boards on the site (easy loading) and very big logs into cants. Most of what I will cut will be oak. I want to turn 24-30" logs into "real" 2"x12"x10' boards.

I would be happy enough if I could just turn the logs into 12"x12"x10' cants and just let them air dry. I would assume cutting green oak is better than dry oak?

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Only one problem, well maybe two:   :P

A 12" by 12" cant of even the most co-operative oak (Cherry Bark Oak) , if dried in that size, would be suitable only as a timber, or fire wood.   It would split, check and otherwise destroy itself.    :(

Secondly, a wet 12by12, 10' long would weigh about 550 to 570 lbs.  You would be handling that weight wet, then watching it self-destruct as it dried.   :-[   :'(

There are several companies which make track-type chainsaw mills.  You could copy one, such as Procut or Haddon, or buy one.  Also, there is the Logosol system.

A Stihl 088, new, with a Alaskan frame and aux. oiler system won't cost more that $1,500.   In this mode, you need hardly any support equipment.  The other alternatives, mentioned above, would double to quadruple that figure.  Remember,  with an Alaskan mill setup,  you don't move the log.  Instead, you can just cut it where it lies, and move the product!
Phil L.

[rebocardo]

Okay, I will skip the 12'x12' cants, because I do not want them to crack and will try to air dry dimension lumber until I can afford a kiln.

I want to use my Husky 365, with a 28" blade and ripping chain, with the Alaskan 24" to eventually cut 2"x12"x12' boards.

Q1) Is there a site with the manual so I know exactly what I need and how I have to set it up to use it, before I buy one? I have not found one that shows it completely while in use.

Q2) Can I use the Alaskan to make cants? Say, I have a 36"+ tree and I want to rip it in 1/2 so I can get the Alaskan to cut some nice boards. I have tried ripping logs in 1/2 and for me it is too risky doing it freehand because a) kickback from burying the nose and b) I can not cut a straight line yet.

Q3) I saw in Baileys a metal guide that attaches to a 2x4 that holds your bar straight. Think that would be safe and easy to use with a ripping chain?


 

[IndyIan]

Rebocardo,

Personally, I wouldn't hesistate to freehand rip a big log with a 28" bar and ripping chain.  Keep firm hold of your saw and keep out of the plane of the bar.  
The baily's guide might help keep your cut straight but I don't think it adds anything safety wise.  

If your going to do 36" trees I'd get a much bigger saw.  A 365 might not live through one tree of that size...  My 372 is happy doing 8-12" cuts through softwoods, I've done 16"+ cuts they are not as much fun.  What I do is slab a 12-20" log down to a square cant and then go from there.  This also reduces you to two cuts through the dirty bark which keeps the chain sharp longer.
There is a yahoo milling group with tons of info on alaskans, they do work but take alot of work as well.

Ian

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Hey Rebo.
I would have to agree with Ian on the 365.  You could use it with a .325 or 3/8 chain to cut 10-12" boards, once the log had been reduced in size to that point.   Ripping a 36" oak requires a 40" bar and a 110 cc (or better) engine.   I use 137cc, and even that is slow on big oaks.

Hey you could salvage a few dogwood trees and make some gluts.  You get a great work-out with checking wedges, steel wedges and wooden gluts.  Just split them big babies!  Then you could use your 365 just fine.
 :D
Phil L.

[rebocardo]

and a glut is ...?

Yes, I am going to split the 36" inch stuff down. I just keep reading about needing a ladder to use the mill, so I want to know how it works before I buy it.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Old Roy Underhill lernt me about gluts.  A glut is an oversize wedge made by taking a small firewood-length of very hard wood and tapering it into the wedge shape.   Dogwood, still in "the round" with bark still on it, in the 4-6" dia. range, was a favorite.  Some elaborate ones would have a brass ring at the pounding end, or would have that end wrapped in rawhide.  The idea is to start a split with a sharp, wide wedge - checking wedge, following with steel wedges - like for firewood splitting, followed last with gluts to widen the split.   Once you use this method, you'll never go back.  (That is, you'll never go back and try that again!)   Yuk, yuk, yuk! ;D

Yes, Sirree,  the old show "The Woodwright's Shop" had a lot of techniques that make you glad you live in more modern times (with plenty of power tools).  I never saw a show where he wasn't bleeding from a finger or two !   :D

Ladder?   See :       http://www.granberg.com/alaskanatwork.html
I use a guide plank, built exactly the way Will Mallof's, Chainsaw Lumbermaking shows it.

Phil L.

[IndyIan]

Rebocardo,
I screw on a 16' 2x10 on my logs, I just saw a couple of high spots flat on the log and use a brace and bit and some 3" wood screws through the 2x10 and in to the log.

I also make some wedges with the spare saw from some of the larger branches laying around. I use these to steady and straighten the 2x10 if necessary.  Also I use a framing square to make sure the board is square when I slab the other 2 sides.

I find I need to have a second chainsaw to clean up stubs I missed or cut wedges or cleanup the end of the log or score the bark on the log so I can peel it off easier.  I borrow my dads 35cc macullough for this.

Ian  

[teakboat]

I have been thinking about attempting to saw some hardwood mainly for the fun of it.. I have  a woodlot in AR with some decent sized red oaks, walnut, and I don't know what else.

Have been trying to understand about these little chainsaw mills like the Haddon, and am wondering whether it is really practical work.  I can understand how to get the log into a cant with the mill, then begin sawing off boards using a 2x6 guide, but what happens when you run out of cant to attach your guide board to?  How much waste, if any, is involved?

And one more rookie question, at the risk of showing how dumb I am, If I am able to split the logs into manageable sized cants, would it be feasible to load them on my truck or trailer, take them back home with me, and saw them to boards on a 12" table saw? 

Sorry to hijack this thread, but it looked like this was the right conversation.

[zopi]

Teakboat...sounds like you have the early stages of an incurable disease...the sawdust bug...nuthin' ta be done but make more dust..

To answer your questions...you only use a guideboard or rails for the first cut on each face..ie, take the slabs off, the saw frame rides directly on the cant for successive cuts..

chainsaw milling is ALOT of hard heavy work..but it is very satisfying..

A very strong chainsaw is a must..homeowner saws will not cut it so to speak...they wear out quickly under the constant load..
typically a pro saw from one of the big three or four manufacuturers is called for...minimum, would be a stihl 361 for example..or its equvalent...or larger..I use a stihl 660...and yeaas, I am biased to stihl...but husky, jonsered, and dolmar
are all excellent tools..can't speak much about them as I only have peripheral experience...

resawing cants on a tablesaw is generally impractical if not dangerous...you need a true edge to rip against, you could
joint an edge and go from there, but..it'd generally be alot of weight up on a saw table...

one option is a small chainsaw powered band mill that is available...can't remember the name, but they seemed like decent tools when I went shopping...i just decided I needed alot more mill than that..a common theme..

i know of at least one guy who uses that setup..he seems happy with it...

[teakboat]

Thanks for the advice Zopi... I was afraid that you might say that about the chainsaws,
My biggest one is a roper 3.7 (61cc) that I guess is bigger than the Stihl 361 but surely not as strong.  It is a little old but not much hours on it.  Do you think it will handle the work?  I know it pales compared to those pro saws but its all i got right now.

[zopi]

I don't know anything about Roper..I'm betting some of the chainsaw guys do...but 61 cc is very minimal at best..usually the recommended range is 70 -80 cc and up...the pro saws typically have much stronger cases and internals, better balance, roller or needle bearings...etc...vast difference in quality...

i used an MS 290 for awhile..not enough muscle..once i got the 660, it was eye opening..the difference in the quality of the saw and power available..of course, the two saws are apples and oranges...but then that is the point...

any of then beat the pants off a pitsaw, in terms of sheer physical labor.. ;D