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Busted Primer

Started by Magicman, November 19, 2017, 03:08:45 PM

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Magicman

This was an absolute first for me.  I carried the .280 sighted in with a different cartridge/bullet as a backup rifle on my recent Elk hunt.  Of course it was not needed, so I now needed to re-zero the scope with my normal Deer round: Factory Remington 140 gr Core-Lokt.


 
I have shot thousands of both factory and handloaded cartridges, but never had a primer failure.  I knew when sparks flew and I got an eyeful of something that something unusual had happened!  Yup, then I put my shooting glasses on.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

TimRB

Is that a crack forming on the side near the head?  If so, you may have a headspace issue.  Possibly the brass stuck to the side of the chamber during firing, as it's supposed to, but a gap existed between the head and the bolt face allowing the primer to back out and let gas loose to carbon up the head and generally make a mess of things.  Possibly.

Tim

Magicman

That was a factory round, but I see what you are looking at.  The spent cartridge is still at the Cabin, so I will check that out and report.  I had fired several rounds re-zeroing back in September before the Elk trip, and I fired two more rounds after this happened.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

goose63

Linn if I load mine a little to hot that will happen to mine  :o
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

TimRB

Quote from: goose63 on November 19, 2017, 04:34:43 PM
Linn if I load mine a little to hot that will happen to mine  :o

Hard to tell from the photo, but there seems to be a bit of cratering on that primer.

Tim

Magicman

I have separated heads before when I was reloading and didn't pay enough attention to headspace.  This being a factory load, head separation would surprise me.  It will have to remain a mystery until I get back to the Cabin.   smiley_headscratch
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Peter Drouin

Wow, Good your ok. Never seen a factory load do that before.
Did you get the bullets on sale? :D :D ;)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

ToddsPoint

Check your firing pin to make sure it isn't broken.  Gary
Logosol M7, Stihl 660 and 290, Kubota L3901.

Magicman

OK but I fired several more rounds after this happened.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Magicman

I now have the spent brass in hand.  There is no head separation or even a bright ring ahead of the web indicating that the brass stretched.  The blackened ring visible in the above picture is where the gasses passed the web and stopped where the brass was sealed inside of the chamber.  There also is no primer cratering around the firing pin strike.

I still did not find any indication that there is a problem with the rifle especially since I shot several times after this happened.  Hopefully this was just a freak incident.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

I think that in your case Lynn, it's just one of those things that happen once in a while!   :-\
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

addysdaddy

Howdy. Glad to hear you are okay. Is there a chance that your barrel end got plugged with a little bit of dirt etc during the hunt. The gas pressure has to go somewhere and the primer is the weakest link in the chain. Most barrels are proofed much stronger than the cartridge they are designed for. Lay a metal straight edge along the barrel and look for the most minute bulge.
Trying to think of something Cool to say kinda defeats the purpose.
LT10
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Husqvarna fan

Magicman

This was my "backup" rifle and was not used during my hunt.  I shot and zeroed it with my Elk cartridge before I left and it was stored in the camper.  I was re-zeroing it with my normal deer cartridge.

Now for the answer.  It's amazing how the mind works when you take your mind off of the actual puzzle.  This came to me last night while I was supposed to be sleeping.  addysdaddy, you were getting mighty close.

I always put electrical tape over the barrel end of my hunting rifles to prevent the possibility of dirt/snow from plugging the barrel.  In this case I used the last bit of electrical vinyl tape on the '06 that I actually used and shot while hunting.  I then searched my shop at the Cabin and found a roll of heavy vinyl utility tape and used it on the .280.  This heavy (thick) tape was on the rifle end when I shot it which caused the higher pressure buildup and blew the primer.  Guess what?  I put the same tape over the barrel end after I finished shooting Saturday!!!

Yes, there is now a roll of electrical tape in my vehicle for the Cabin.

This incident just like sawing incidents may serve to help someone else which is why I don't mind sharing mistakes and the ultimate solution.  I thank each of you for your input because we all learn together.   smiley_thumbsup
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

addysdaddy

Every learning experience you walk away from has value. A friend of mine uses those small finger cots. little rubber tubes to cover his rifle barrels on rainy days. they blow off with the air in the barrel as the bullet is shot. Antway, glad the mystery is solved.
Trying to think of something Cool to say kinda defeats the purpose.
LT10
Kioti with winch.
Husqvarna fan

Crow99

Looking carefully at your photo,  I would call it primer failure, not necessarily excess pressure.  I see that the anvil and the round body of the primer stayed in the case. Commonly, when excess pressure "blows" a primer pocket,  the whole primer falls out because the brass pocket is expanded.  In your case it looks like just the flat rear of the primer separated from the rest and there was of course a huge gas leak that cratered your bolt face. So it looks like the primer cup failed where it was folded.. weak metal combined with stress at the fold, maybe faulty annealing, and it let go.
If I were you, I would contact Remington about this.  I would say they owe you a new bolt...  imho, definitely not due to taped muzzle.

Magicman

You are correct that only the rear of the primer separated at the fold.  The remainder of the primer and the anvil remained in the case.

I will look more closely at the bolt face when I go back to the Cabin.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Crow99

Yeah, that bolt face Looks badly cratered / gas cut around the primer.
Remington will want the information and lot number from thge ammo box too.

Magicman

Yes the bolt face is badly cratered.  I'll be communicating with Remington and Browning next week. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Bibbyman

Being a backup gun,  did it have oil in chamber and barrel?  This could push pressure.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Magicman

No oil, I did not clean or oil after sighting it in before the Colorado trip.

I am in contact with Remington and am providing them with the information that they are requesting.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Mad Professor

I also use tape to protect the muzzle on my rifles, particularly my traditional BP MLers.

But what I do is only apply tape to the end/muzzle, and trim with my knife so only a circle of tape covers the end. Never had a problem this way

Magicman

Everything has been sent to Remington so the ball is in their court.  I ain't expecting much.   ::)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

submarinesailor

Speaking of Remington. 

I have read in several news releases that Remington is filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy:  In brief: Remington files for bankruptcy amid declining gun sales | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

I have always been very partial to their weapons.  Maybe because that's what I grew up shooting.

Bruce

Magicman

Thank You @Crow99 for your Reply #15.  I contacted Remington who sent me a return shipping label and requested the spent cartridges as well as any unfired cartridges e/w the box, etc.

Remington contacted me yesterday stating that they would cover the cost of the bolt plus replace the ammo.  The said that the failure was due to corrosion inside of the primer.  They gave me a contact with Browning.  Browning then called me today and sent me a return shipping label.

I will box the entire rifle and send it to Browning.

Edit:  Browning sent me a return label and the rifle has been boxed and delivered to UPS.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

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