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General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: J 5 on August 09, 2018, 05:31:27 AM

Title: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: J 5 on August 09, 2018, 05:31:27 AM
       These trailers were coupled to J5  Bombardiers, they were capable of carrying heavy loads for their size. I picked up a second one  that needs a little TLC, after 50 plus years in the bush .
                           Started by removing the old mast for the mechanical boom and the rear gate. Installed pockets/pickets , new tubing in the beams , and turned the beam axle , hope to sort out the wheels and tracks next.      J 5
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/july__2018_018_-_Copy~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1533806821)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/aug_1_2018_024_-_Copy.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1533806925)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/july_phone__2_070_-_Copy.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1533806879)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/aug_1_2018_030_-_Copy.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1533806160)
 
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: J 5 on August 09, 2018, 06:00:11 AM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/kirk_s_camera_2014_074_-_Copy.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1533808691)
        Older pic , different trailer, showing what they can handle, on a good packed trail.   J 5
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: sprucebunny on August 09, 2018, 06:40:21 AM
I'll get you some pictures of my axles on Saturday .

Do you weld a pintle hook to the rotating hitch thing ? Or use it like it was made as a weight distributing hitch ?


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11412/jmtrailerontrailer34OP.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1192064548)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11412/jmJ5trailerhitchbarOP.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1192064433)
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: J 5 on August 09, 2018, 07:00:52 AM
      Hi Sprucebunny
                  I have the original hitch to use on my one J5 and I made up a pipe tonque  with eyelet to install for the muskegs.
                                                                J 5
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: thecfarm on August 09, 2018, 07:32:18 AM
Looks like quite the load of wood on there.
Would it handle it easy going down a steep hill?
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: J 5 on August 09, 2018, 07:47:35 AM
      Never any issues on moderate hills , as the J5 is pretty heavy, with the sleigh different story. Usually hook another J5 on the back of the sleigh for one bad hill we travel, guess we could drag chain the runners like the old horse sleigh days.  The sleigh works fine, but come spring with patchy snow or gravel spots on the road  the brakes come on pretty fast, and you can hardly move them .
J 5
                                                        
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: red on August 09, 2018, 01:12:49 PM
Did you say Weight Distribution Hitch as in WDH  ?
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: J 5 on October 21, 2018, 08:07:39 AM
      Another scratch built trailer,  from whatever steel was around at the time. The skis were a complete failure, so made up some walking beams and tracks this summer. Still have to build risers at the tacks, to keep firewood from rubbing them, as set up for logs it works great.
                                                     J 5
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/Muskeg_and_trailer_jan_2016_004_-_Copy.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1540123470)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/sept_2018_067_-_Copy.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1540123535)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/october_2018_126_-_Copy_28229.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1540123569)
 
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: mike_belben on October 22, 2018, 12:11:17 AM
Where do you find the tracks and cleats and such?  
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: J 5 on October 22, 2018, 05:59:47 PM
   Undercarriage parts are all J5 / Muskeg spares I had kicking around.
                                                           J 5
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: snowstorm on October 22, 2018, 09:53:10 PM
didnt bombardier sell out to camoplast then the name changed to casmo and that just sold to Michelin. the history of bombardier is pretty interesting. all starting in valcourt Quebec. some say he was the first to build half tracks for tractors . your j5 tracked machines to groom ski slopes  ski doo. rotax engines. around 2000 they bought what was left of evinrude. they built air planes trains. then it split up with brp having ski doo can am rude and bombardier building air planes trains
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: Quebecnewf on October 23, 2018, 04:57:05 AM
Great pics J5. I have always been interested in those machines as a log mover . In our area with the amount of sea ice we cross I am not comfortable that they are a good option . Would be great as as staging machine moving logs from the woods to the shoreline.

I think you need to look into UHMW plastic sheeting as a base for your winter sleighs .i have switched to those and they are much better than any other type of sleigh I have used. You would just need to adapt the size to match your bigger machines.

There is a very interesting article on a study of these type of sleighs being used to haul supplies up on the Greenland ice cap behind large tracked tractors . They beat the normal sleighs hands down 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12408/image~153.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1540284805)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12408/image~152.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1540284802)


Quebecnewf





Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: Quebecnewf on October 23, 2018, 05:03:49 AM
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/SPT-bladder-sleds-assembled-for-the-2007-08-season-Each-sled-consists-of-two-3-000-gal_fig4_235160721

Here is the article . I think it is the same one or a modified version

Quebecnewf 
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: mike_belben on October 23, 2018, 10:46:19 AM
Do they have a keel? What keeps them from slideslipping on offcamber slopes?  Or is it flatland?
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: Quebecnewf on October 24, 2018, 05:19:05 AM
There are small keels on them . The amount of keel you put on them will depend on your needs . If you have a lot of side sloped paths ( not a good  option if it can be avoided ) you would just had a deeper keel . 

The beauty of these sleighs is that each time you pass with your load you improve your path . With regular use you end up with a very smooth compacted path . Coming out with a load you stay in your same track . Going in empty you drive slightly to one side thus widening your path each time . We travel over some barren areas and after a snowstorm the path is no longer visible . We mark the trail with small trees and this ensures after s snow storm we are driving on top of the old compacted trail.

In the spring as the snow melts of the meshes or trail is the last thing to melt . 

Quebecnewf 
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: J 5 on December 04, 2018, 04:45:02 AM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/dec_2018_054~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543916641)
       Just about finished the trailer, one track on and one left to put together.
                                    J 5
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/dec_2018_043.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1543916387)
 
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: mike_belben on December 04, 2018, 07:30:06 AM
Are new aftermarket track belts and cleats out there for these?
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: J 5 on December 06, 2018, 05:22:14 AM
         Belting is available ,the proper crossers would be smooth with no lugs as the track is none driven. I usually buy belt and punch it myself, track hardware comes from scrap machines, as the new parts available out there have skyrocketed for these old bombardiers.
                                              J 5
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: Quebecnewf on December 07, 2018, 07:40:36 AM
Here is a pic of those sleighs I mentioned . The figures that are within the report was what got me started looking into the plastic sheets as sleighs  for my snowmobiles . 
The figure that really interested me was the one where they found that the same amount of fuel on a sheet of plastic was one third as easy to pull as it was on one of their regular sleds.

After five years of using a smaller version of these sleds I can say for a fact this is true . Whatever you are hauling now with your tracked sleds you should expect to approx double the amount you can haul per trip once you get your sled properly designed for your J5 . 

These sleds pack down your skid path so the more you haul the better your path gets . 

With a J5 and the weight you could haul you should , if your going back and forth over the same ground very much , end up with basically an ice road .

Quebecnewf 




(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12408/image~127.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1544185841)
 
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: J 5 on December 07, 2018, 06:50:05 PM
        Pretty nice sleighs, great on an ice road or frozen lake, but after 12 years of running a sleigh and tracked trailer together, I'm heading in the other direction . I'll have 3 tracked trailers hauling wood this year, with no worries  about crossing a graveled 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/nov_2018_009_-_Copy.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1544226443)
 road or trying to move them when the snow starts breaking up in the yard , or the opposite problem when going down hills.  Having the option of hauling without snow has it's benefits as we logged pine this past fall with tracks
                        Wish those were around in the 70' s when we would tie a broken down snowmobile to a toboggan or crazy carpet to drag it home , what fun ! 
                                                      J 5
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: Quebecnewf on December 07, 2018, 08:15:54 PM
I agree . These sleighs are designed for winter and snow . If you have very little winter and gravel roads to deal with then these are not an option . 

I like the idea of those J5 and often looked at trying to buy one . My problem is we work a lot on frozen sea ice and there can be thin spots and there is also the issue of " slob" . Water pushes up through cracks in the ice and mixes with the snow and you get " slob". 

At my age now I guess I'm going to stick with what I got .

Still fun dreaming about how you could do it different though.



Quebecnewf
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: J 5 on December 26, 2018, 03:49:49 PM
    Gave my 3 trailers a shakedown run today, pretty rough in the field with the lack of snow. Either way first 3 loads are hauled with no trouble, quite a few more to go.
               On a side note, a lot of this is old oak from the top of the mountain, big stuff and mostly hollow. The question is how old is an oak, before it gets to this point, I'm not good at ring counting, pic enclosed.
                 J 5
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/dec__3_2018_012_-_Copy.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545857273)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14032/dec__3_2018_007_-_Copy.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545857304)
 
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: Mountain_d on December 27, 2018, 07:52:31 AM
Quebecnewf, what is the thickness of the UHMW you used for your sleighs? Also, who did you buy it from and what was the cost? I would love to see a picture of the runners on the bottom also and close up of the tongue and side attachment points. Thanks for the information. 
Mountain. 
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: thecfarm on December 27, 2018, 08:03:06 AM
THat's a nice picture of wood hauling equipment.
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: nativewolf on December 27, 2018, 08:26:52 AM
Well your oak is over 100 but I cut many a many tree that has no rot at 100.  I'd say they were scared at a young age ..moose, settlers, something.  Anyhow, once your trees got over the initial growth spurt they slowed down they fast growth larger ringed section is something like 30 years.  After that it slowed right on down, just count growth rings in 1 inch and then approximate.  Counting the darker, summer, wood rings is easiest for me vs the spring wood (lighter woods).  
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: mike_belben on December 27, 2018, 09:22:40 AM
UHMW is real expensive and used commercial cutting boards is the way ive scored it cheap.  Those are about 3/8 and very tough.   Next best place has been a company that makes it for tablesaw fence covers, i cant remember the name of. Google will turn them up. 
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: Quebecnewf on December 29, 2018, 10:41:44 AM
Quote from: Mountain_d on December 27, 2018, 07:52:31 AM
Quebecnewf, what is the thickness of the UHMW you used for your sleighs? Also, who did you buy it from and what was the cost? I would love to see a picture of the runners on the bottom also and close up of the tongue and side attachment points. Thanks for the information.
Mountain.
Our sleighs are not made from UHMW. They are made from a product called puckboard . It's the same product that rink boards are made with. It's cheaper but not as strong as UHMW. It does the job for us but we have had some breakage . If and when these wear out ( sixth winter now) I am thinking I would go with UHMW now that I have all the bugs worked out on my system .sleds are 3/8 thick . Mine are 36" wide by 12 ft long . The runners underneath are short sections of UHMW . There are all different ways of doing the runners depending on your needs with regard to side slip. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12408/image~166.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1546097488)

You can see an early version in this pic.
There are 4 sections of alum angle 3x3x16. The small runners are bolted up through the bottom into the angle alum. The cross bunk that the logs rest on is a 6x6 section of spruce that sits between the angle alum . They are bolted in through the alum with one 6" by 1/2" lag bolt.
The tow hitch is two sections of 6x7" flat steel bolted together with a tongue welded to hitch it to snowmobile .
This is my set up but there are many variations .you could scale this up to tow behind a bigger rig . They use much bigger rigs like this down in Anarticia .
They tow them behind large tracked tractors up to 400 hp so serious pulling power
Quebecnewf 
Quebecnewf
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: Ljohnsaw on December 29, 2018, 12:57:19 PM
Quote from: Quebecnewf on December 29, 2018, 10:41:44 AMThey are made from a product called puckboard . It's the same product that rink boards are made with.

Probably still out there - On CraigsList a hotel down in Las Vegas has 200 sheets (3x7 IIRC) for $150 each.  They had a rink for some special show and now what to get rid of it.  Shipping might be an issue unless you can get a FF member or 6 to relay haul it ;)
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: Quebecnewf on December 29, 2018, 01:02:54 PM
7 ft not long enough but if you could join them that's a real good price .

Someone will snap it up for something . Most likely not forestry sleds though

Quebecnewf
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: doc henderson on December 29, 2018, 01:58:36 PM
If looking for a cheap source for occasional use sled or nose piece to pull a log, what about the 300 gallon plastic liners for construction totes.  I made a spray booth in my shop, and covers for the firewood in the metal part of the crates.  Pretty tough, and if can get it free might be ok for occasional use.  Like when Magic M gets snow. LOL!
Title: Re: J5 Bombardier Trailer
Post by: Ljohnsaw on December 29, 2018, 04:25:36 PM
Quote from: Quebecnewf on December 29, 2018, 01:02:54 PM
7 ft not long enough but if you could join them that's a real good price .

Someone will snap it up for something . Most likely not forestry sleds though

Quebecnewf
They've been listed for over a month.  I'm thinking they are worth $20 ;)  At that price I'd pick them all up and make a 1,400 ' year-round bobsled run on my property! 8)