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middle Tn

Started by residman, April 10, 2007, 04:54:28 PM

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residman

I recently purchased 40 acres in Lewis County Tn. The property had recently been "select" cut. The tree tops were left where the fell and there are other rotted / damaged trees that need to be removed. I have zero experience with this type of project but I am capable. However, i need advice on what would be the best approach to clean up the property. Are the tops worth anything for firewood? If I chip them what is the best method to deal with the chips; spread them around with a tractor, have them removed? Any advice or comments would be appreciated.

Ron Scott

If you burn firewood, that may be the best and most economical way for your "clean-up". Loop and scatter the small limb wood and run over it to get it close to the ground for soil nutrient replacement.

If you have more firewood than you can use, you might see if there is a local market for its possible sale or get a commercial firewood cutter to clean it up for you.
~Ron

thecfarm

I've been cutting this woodlot for 30 years and my Father did it for 60 years.We always cut our brush down and any tops that we don't want.I try not to leave a piece longer than about 3 feet.Some of the white pine limbs have some size to them I might cut them shorter. I try to get the brush on the ground to rot.This takes a couple years for the type of trees that I have.I very rarely run over my brush.I have a tractor with no skid pan.I just cannot do it without damaging something,that's why I cut it up the way I do.Makes for a nice neat job when I am done.In a couple years I could run over it,because it all rotten and just breaks up.If you do use a chipper you should be able to move it a little so the chips don't keep landing in the same spot.I myself would just cut it and let it rot,if it's the type of wood that will rot in a couple years.This way you don't have to handle it again.When I cut a fir of spruce tree I run the saw up and down the top so there is only a stem left with no limbs.If I did leave any limbs and the top was off the ground,it would take years to rot.Would get hard and might go into my raditor.Welcome to the forum reisdman.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Greenedive

If there is young growth of a desirable species growing up through the tops you would be better off leaving the tops to protect the new growth. Used to be on State Forestry sales in Pennsylvania all the tops would have to be lopped down within 3' of the ground, but now the consensus is that the tops are more valuable as protection for the young sprouts and they will eventually rot down on their own. Also, hauling those tops out of there or even trampling around cutting them up is going to jeopardize your young growth.

If there is nothing of value growing amongst the tops....then the advice given above is excellent.

thecfarm

Around here we don't have the deer problems that other states have.I can show you some regen that will make you say wow.Thicker than hair on a dog.This is all white pine that I'm talking about.Should be thinned out.But I'm hoping rabbits will come back.We don't have the good wood like walnut and cherry that you guys have.All that I have on my lot of any amount is red oak,white maple,white pine and hemlock.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

residman

I appreciate the responses. I have a few more questions. If i cut the tops for firewood giving myself an option to possibley sell it, what is the minimum diameter i should cut and at what diameter would i need to start splitting it. The tops are red and white oak. If I leave everything say 3" and below on the ground, any guess as to how long it will take the wood to rot? I am bulding a cabin on the property and would like to see it looking "showable" sooner than later.   

Sprucegum

No matter what species, a piece of wood 3" in diameter 16" long is a nice firewood log that will fit in your average homeowner fireplace.
That is the approximate size you want to achieve when splitting for sale to "city folk"  :) If you go into the firewood business you will be amazed at how much exercise you get.  ;)

Engineer

I'm probably a bit different than most regarding firewood.  I cut everything down to about an inch and a half, and cut the small diameter stuff (1.5" up to 3") to longer lengths, up to about 3'.  Several armloads of them stuffed in my wood boiler makes for a good hot fire fast.  PLus, wood is wood, regardless of the size.  I let my kids cut the little stuff with loppers and a sharp hatchet.

Marketing is an entirely different game.  I can't imagine anybody wants roundwood, so nice, neat cut-and-split lengths would probably sell best. 

thecfarm

I bought back 7 acres of the old farm and cut 2 loads of hardwood pulp to see the field better.Anything about 3" and smaller I threw into a pile to give to my brother.I told some guy at work and he came up and sawed it up and bought it for $50 a cord.I had him tell me what a cord was.I realize you can't trust everyone like that.The red oak I have here will last longer than white maple.Red oak will not rot no where's near as quick as a 3" stick of white maple.Oak will still be pretty strong and will not break up as well.I would just make sure to cut all the limbs off and just have a stem so that it will lay flat on the ground with anything of any size.I cut up my tops for my own use.I would hate to try to make a dollar doing it the way you want to.It will work,but it will take some time.It will look real nice when you get it done.As to how long the oak will last on the ground,3-5 years,I would guess.I have some small oak4" that died and has been on the ground and still good and sound 5 years later,probaly not what you want to hear.But just cut it all up small and it will settled down in a few years and look good.Don't know about split wood.I have a cook stove and like it split 3 inches.Now the wood stove in the basement,about 10 inches,if I can get it through the door,it don't get split.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

BrandonTN

Howdy, neighbor!  smile_banjoman
Forester, Nantahala National Forest

treebucker

I don't know if there is any scientific studies to back me up here but I've got a feeling that the farther south you go the faster a given species rots due to the higher humidity and tempature.

I would take what I could get as firewood...taking the hickories first as they sell better but rot quick. Tulip poplar shouldn't be used for firewood due to its poor weight and smell. I would only take the stuff that makes good firewood and leave the rest. Like others have suggested I would make sure it was making good soil contact and scatter it around a little.

I have a rule as to how small to cut firewood: the better the firewood the smaller I cut it. I'll take hickories, white oak, locust, apple, hophornbeam, hornbeam, dogwood, redbud, persimmon, etc. down to 2".  While red oaks, ash, etc., I'll take to ~4" min.  Four years back, I got chided by my partner for cutting 2 ricks of white oak limbs at 2-3" diameter. We ricked it up near the other firewood we had for sale. We wholesaled 25 ricks to a local firewood dealer. He was an old man that knew the business well. He looked at those white oak limbs and asked what we were going to do with them...said he sure could use them in his garage stove. My partner gave them to him as a bonus. I later tried some more I had cut in our garage stove. The old man knew what he was doing. We now sort our firewood as we split it. Small stuff in one pile, uniform split stuff in the "for sale" pile, and irregular/shorts/nearly-impossible-to-split stuff  in another. We burn the small and irregular stuff ourselves.
Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and
I thought to myself, "Where the heck is the ceiling?!" - Anon

Phorester


TREEBUCKER, what's the dimensions of the rick of wood you are stacking?

treebucker

Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and
I thought to myself, "Where the heck is the ceiling?!" - Anon

Raider Bill

Well now doesn't that just suck! I've got Lobolly and poplar, ones not listed and ones not good. Hmmmm Going to have to rethink my heating plans.....
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Dave Shepard

I saw a red oak firewood log in Chesterville once. The sawyers at the Woodmizer open house where fighin' over who got to mill it.  ::) ::) ;D


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Phorester


I was wondering if that was the dimensions of your rick.  Here that's called a face cord.  Different regions, different names for the same thing.   ;D

easymoney

hello neighbor. i am in lewis county tennessee also. a few miles west of town. i am really glad that lewis county has no zoning or building restrictions yet. i know it is coming eventually. for now the only codes are  the electric company and the health department if you put in a septic tank. i know people in other parts of the country are green with envy for us having so few restrictions to deal with.

Raider Bill

Same where I'm buildingin Mc Minn Co. nothing but the septic! Big change from here in Florida where they inspect inspections.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Ed_K

 You guys need to get involved with your town or county boards to keep the rules the way they are. It doesn't take a lot of outsiders to move in and decide well now I'm here I'll change the rules to keep the bad people out. They sure ruined our town before the locals realized what was up. Its costing us big time in taxes cause a few people didn't like the way things were once they moved in.
Ed K

sawguy21

That works to a point but your state health boards and the insurance underwriters pack a lot of clout too. They don't like lack of regulations that allow them to cover their butts.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Raider Bill

Quote from: Ed_K on April 18, 2007, 10:37:55 AM
You guys need to get involved with your town or county boards to keep the rules the way they are. It doesn't take a lot of outsiders to move in and decide well now I'm here I'll change the rules to keep the bad people out. They sure ruined our town before the locals realized what was up. Its costing us big time in taxes cause a few people didn't like the way things were once they moved in.

I guess moving from Florida to Tn like everyone else is doing makes me a outsider but I'm going to escape the rules on rules, inspections, goverment oversight. taxes, insurance, blah blah blah, I figure to build in the middle of my 69 acres and only leave for supplies. If I want to walk out my back door and shoot a gun I can without a SWAT team showing up. Just sitting her typing this reply I've had 3 fire trucks and a ambulance scream by.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

easymoney

yes we have had some folks move in to lewis county and try to change things. nothing makes me madder than having some yankee say well where i came from we did it this way. makes you want to say yankee go home. nothing looks better than a yankee on a bus headed north. in most of the surrounding counties you have to have a building permit for almost everything. some counties have outlawed mobil homes even in rural areas. you can not mill your own lumber to build your house or barn, you are required to buy your lumber from the big box stores. i live in a mobil home i paid $1,000.00 for and am milling the lumber for my work shop and no high priced building permit.

metalspinner

Don't move into Blount Co.  We need permits for everything.  I tryed to fill in the culvert between my driveway and the neighboor's with a culvert pipe - about 6' long.  An official looking car drove past then turned around to see what I was up to.  Turns out it was a code inspector wondering what I was up to.  He was not to happy that I did not get a permit for the work.  I went and paid the ten bucks, got the permit and finished the job.  Of course, they had to come check the culvert connections before I filled in the hole. ::)
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

beenthere

metalspinner
Ya prolly really did things in the right order..........may have taken months had you sought the permit first. There may have been meetings to attend, pre-inspections, new advice and directions, and finally, a possible decision that you couldn't do it at all.  ::) ::)

You did it, got caught, paid, and finished the job. Good on ya.  (work at night the next time  :) ).
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Raider Bill

how's that go, better to apoligize than to ask permission sometimes
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Greenedive

Quote
Quote from: easymoney on April 19, 2007, 09:29:00 AM
yes we have had some folks move in to lewis county and try to change things. nothing makes me madder than having some yankee say well where i came from we did it this way. makes you want to say yankee go home. nothing looks better than a yankee on a bus headed north.

Well easymoney...I am a yankee and proud of it...I lived a couple years in Tennessee and didn't find it any different than how things are up here in Pennsylvania....except some people were still trying to fight the Civil War. That ended 142 years ago!! Maybe you had a bad experience with a 'yankee', but don't be thinking all of us would for some reason want to change your way of life. I've had friends move up from the south and never thought about saying 'Rebel, go home', even if I didn't agree with all their ideas....this is all one country.

Let's fight the right enemy here..... ::)
We have the same problems here in the North.

Greg Cook

Welcome, Residman. I'm in Wilson County, several mile to the north of ya.  Glad you found this fine group of folks, before long you'll wonder how you got along without them.

Raider Bill, at least you have pine and poplar! All I have is cedar, sycamore, and a god bit of Honey Locust thrown in to have something to cut down that it makes you APPRECIATE cutting cedars with limbs all the way to the ground.

This Tennessee contingent is going to have to get together some weekend!

Greg
"Ain't it GOOD to be alive and be in TENNESSEE!" Charlie Daniels

thecfarm

Nothing looks better than a flat lander on a bus heading south.  ;) There I just had to say it. ;D We have the same problem here.Everyone wants to change things the same way where they came from.Than why did you leave there in the first place.Just the way some people are.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Raider Bill

Well having grown up in CNY in a small town I lerned to hunt, fish trap and play in the woods. I moved to Fl 25 years ago when it was still sparsely populated. Now jeesch, it's crazy. I need to get back to the woods.
Quote from: Greg Cook on April 19, 2007, 07:12:42 PM
Welcome, Residman. I'm in Wilson County, several mile to the north of ya. Glad you found this fine group of folks, before long you'll wonder how you got along without them.

Raider Bill, at least you have pine and poplar! All I have is cedar, sycamore, and a god bit of Honey Locust thrown in to have something to cut down that it makes you APPRECIATE cutting cedars with limbs all the way to the ground.

This Tennessee contingent is going to have to get together some weekend!

Greg

I'm heading that way Sunday providing I'm not too hung over from Saturday. Should be there a week to 10 days. Will be making the trip every month for the next few months or at least till it gets cold there.
I'd invite you all over but there's nothing there but trees.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Dave Shepard

A friend of mine wanted to fix up a little bridge crossing a little stream near his house. He said it was going to cost something like 20k for permits, engineering etc. I asked how much the fine was if he didn't ask permission, he said 4k. I said I think I know how to save you $16,000. ;)


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

PineNut

Don't ask the question unless you are prepared to live with the answer. Works with permits also.

ID4ster

Make sure that you leave some of the limbs and boles that are greater than 3" in diameter. You need a certain amount of that size wood (3"- 20+") scattered about your forest for long term soil nutirents and to rot and be incorporated into the top levels of the soil. If you walk around and through your proerty you'll see that there are parts of trees such as blowdowns, broken off tops, fallen snags, etc., that are becoming part of your forest soil. This component is very important and will affect the soil and forest productivity 25-100 years down the line. Forest owners that clean up their timber to a park like standard or who cut all the top limbs below 3" and haul them away are being very detrimental to their forests health. In Tennessee you've got very good conditions for rotting down any limbs and tops that you leave behind in a short amount of time so you should leave them and let them rot, even some good firewood species, so that you can maintain and improve your the health of your forest soil.
Bob Hassoldt
Seven Ridges Forestry
Kendrick, Idaho
Want to improve your woodlot the fastest way? Start thinning, believe me it needs it.

easymoney

i apologize if i offended anyone with my comments about yankees. some of them are pretty good folks. they just talk funny with that northern accent. actually i have had quite a few kinfolks that moved north after the war to work in the automobile plants. they would always come back home in the summer to live off their kin and brag about the money they made in detroit. some came back  home when they retired, some stayed up north to live out thier days especially if they had married a northern girl that loved the city and could not stand the slow pace of country living.

Greenedive

Thanks easymoney...I guess it bothered me because I could relate to the rest of your post and knowing that we rural 'yankees' are plagued by the same type of people, (those who can't live without their every move being regulated and monitored by 'Big Brother').
Sure didn't like getting blamed for the thing I'm always bitching about. ;D
I am especially tuned into this issue right now because I'm in the process of building a new house....I had several thousand board feet of nice clean hemlock lumber sawed up for my joists, studding and rafters...and the building inspector said I couldn't use it because it wasn't 'stamped and graded'. I am in the process of trying to get the lumber graded in hopes that will satisfy the 'regulations', but at this point it is still pretty iffy.

thecfarm

I know what you mean easymoney.We try to keep it a secret here how good we have it up here.I hate it when someone comes from the south and go back where they belong to brag about how good they have it up north.I really hate it when they brag how much money they made.Just the way some people are.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

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