I just cut for more of a hobby and living in Iowa it gets hard to find logs. So I'm constantly looking on craigslist and Facebook marketplace for logs and I found one stating he was cutting down some for firewood. He wanted $30 for all you could stuff in a truck. I contacted him and he had 3 maple logs 20" by 12 feet he was about to cut into firewood. I said I would take them as is so he would not have to cut them and then he comes back telling me a friend told him they were worth at least $200 a piece. So from $30 a pick up load to $200 a log. He ended up cutting them for firewood. He would not come down on the price for the hole log. Just can't understand some people.
What part of Iowa is that I live in south central and logs are more common here. That is your typical Craigslist buyer.
"Friends" ruin a lot of things - everyone lost in your case and that's common when people start listening to others instead of thinking for themselves.
@LoneDuck (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11284) I don't know how long you've been milling, but I've been milling since 2014. I learned that you have to develop relationships. My two most successful relationships are with two firewood guys. The first has a really nice operation and he has relationships with the city he's in, and the bring him logs when he wants them. He also has relationships with at least 4 tree services. All of them have learned what he wants for firewood logs, but a couple will save high quality logs and walnut logs as full length logs. The other firewood guy I work with is a smaller single man operation and the first firewood guy pointed me to him. He's brought me Walnut, Cherry, and oak.
Those are my successful and recurring suppliers - they save the best saw logs to sell to me(as they have enough firewood logs from tree services to keep them busy). Yes, once in awhile I'll hit nails, but when it's walnut, it's worth it, and when it's something else, as long as it comes out in the average, no big deal.
I was also successful with one farmer who bulldozed a hedgerow and let me pull all the osage I wanted out of the pile before he burned it. A guy who does excavating in the country that was doing work on my place connected me with that farmer. I found one homeowner via craigslist who lived along the river and would let me come and cut and take all the osage I wanted as it is not native and so he didn't want it. I found another farmer via a farming paper ad I ran who also let me come and cut Osage from his hedgerows. Lastly, my biggest score was getting my truck serviced at the dealer. While in the waiting room I struck up a conversation with another guy getting his trucked worked on. When I brought up the subject of milling and logs, he informed me that he had a farm property where they had bulldozed a walnut grove and the logger that was supposed to come take the logs and pay them, never did. I asked if I could look and possibly make him an offer. Scored almost 2 full semi loads. Logs ranged from Veneer quality to branchy slab logs.
I've been unsuccessful with as many or more people. Some just don't have a good attitude. One guy didn't want to sell me any logs because he thought I'd be competition despite my telling him that I don't sell anything and only mill for myself. Some others, like you experienced, think that if you're expressing interest, then what they have must be worth much more than they thought. You just have to keep talking to people, trying new things, and developing relationships. Treat people right, don't leave a mess if you're cutting or picking up. Keep working at developing sources. Sometimes things dry up, but then it pours.
Yes, people are funny! I have had more than a few tree removal jobs get "weird" when I pull out the Alaskan and mill up logs. The job will be priced on take the tree down and haul away all the wood, but when the home owner sees the slabs pile up they think that its their wood. I will remind them of the contract and that they did not want the logs. I will usually leave them a slab, but it sure can get interesting ;)
Haha yeah, I just dealt with a guy who listed a walnut tree for firewood, so I texted him and was asking dimensions, and told him I might be willing to pay something if it was a nice tree. Well he must have talked to his buddy who informed him that it was worth at least several thousand....
we ended up settling at $150 as nobody else had contacted him. Turned out to be a decent 18" x 8' x3 slabbing log, but I got some nice wood out of it and didn't hit any metal.
I also had an ad for custom milling per hour and the guy thought I was selling my mill for that price..... sure.... and it comes with a starter pack of 20 walnut logs and a truck to haul it home so as not to inconvenience you! ;D
I feel your pain. Its always a friend telling how valuable something is, but of course they are not going to come up with the money ::)
Some deals just don't work out, that's business. Keep looking, there are more logs to be found. As Brad said, It takes a while to build a list of good log suppliers.
QuoteHaha yeah, I just dealt with a guy who listed a walnut tree for firewood, so I texted him and was asking dimensions, and told him I might be willing to pay something if it was a nice tree. Well he must have talked to his buddy who informed him that it was worth at least several thousand....
Not the first time someone said they have a "Highly valuable Black Walnut tree" for sale. :D
You need to let those folks rest comfortably in their own ignorance. ;D
I make it a practice never to do mental battle with an unarmed person. It's just not fair to them. :D ;D
yea. ppl are funny. they would rather throw it away then take what they originally wanted for it. Half of this junk I blame reality TV on. Look at what happened with storage wars. I bet ppl that own storage units loved that show. Maybe they produced it?
I used to buy storage units until that show. Another one is American Pickers.
As a car appraiser I won't even start on the TV car shows and how they have changed the business and not for the better. Everyone thinks their car should bring class 1 money no matter how much bondo, rust or oil it burns.
I have a small collection of old chain saws that I periodically show, as soon as people see that the dollar signs start flashing in their eyes as they describe grandpaws old Homelite that has been in the barn for years. If somebody is collecting them they must be worth money right? When I tell them the most I have paid for any saw is 75 bucks they either don't want to believe me or quickly end the conversation.
Take an 8x10x8 and stand it up......a really nice $40.00 post.
Lay it down, a really nice $400.00 Mantel.
Thats what my friend said. :D :D :D
I work a regular job 10 to 12 hours per day and up to 6 days a week so I don't have much spare time. That is way I haven't contacted many tree services yet. I do not feel right having them wait on me. They have a business to run and I respect that. That is why I wait until I have the time and will not be holding someone up. I just more would respect that as much as I do. If you decide to sell something and set a price honor it.
Quote from: sawguy21 on July 09, 2019, 09:32:22 PM
I have a small collection of old chain saws that I periodically show, as soon as people see that the dollar signs start flashing in their eyes as they describe grandpaws old Homelite that has been in the barn for years. If somebody is collecting them they must be worth money right? When I tell them the most I have paid for any saw is 75 bucks they either don't want to believe me or quickly end the conversation.
AH, Sawguy, you just have to explain to them that is a $50. saw with $500. worth of time, parts, and love added. I get calls once in a while from folks trying to sell old machines that are clogging up their garages. Too big for them to move, usually in the 1,800 to 4,000 pound range. Usually a special purpose machine their Grandpa loved and cherished that I have no application for. They start out with an asking price, usually high. When I say no thanks, they drop the price, may times they go down to zero. A few have offered to pay me to remove it. Still, no thanks. Everything is relative.
don't forget, return calls and follow through on meeting times.
Duck,
I hate busybodies. They just muddy the waters for everybody. I worked overseas a lot including a couple of tours in Africa. My photographer wife would come visit during the summer and on vacations and one trick we learned was to take a portable picture printer. We'd see someone who was or was doing something particularly photogenic, we'd ask permission, take the picture then give them a copy. We made lots of friends that way and got access to places National Geographic never got to. However it was common for some layabout to see us and come over and demand money for himself or the photo subject. On principle we would not pay for a picture - we were already giving them a picture. I remember one very pretty young lady in a remote village in bright traditional clothing with a newborn baby. We asked to take her picture and told her we would give her a copy. She was fine till our local moron jumps in and demands money. Ended up we just walked away and the lady never got a picture. Did I mention I hate busybodies! >:(
My way of figuring out people that you can't figure out is to ignore them. ::)
I go my way and am not concerned about their way because I didn't go that way. ;D
Quote from: sawguy21 on July 09, 2019, 09:32:22 PM
I have a small collection of old chain saws that I periodically show, as soon as people see that the dollar signs start flashing in their eyes as they describe grandpaws old Homelite that has been in the barn for years. If somebody is collecting them they must be worth money right? When I tell them the most I have paid for any saw is 75 bucks they either don't want to believe me or quickly end the conversation.
How many do you want? I saved every one since I was 16 and have my grandfather's too. So did everyone else.
I wouldn't blame the friend. Some people are just attracted to greed.
I hate when I find something for sale online, talk to them and agree to buy it only to find when I get there they want more money for it. I don't care if it's a dollar more, I walk away. I say it's the principal behind the deal, my wife says it's because I'm stubborn and hard-headed. ;D ;D
I won't deal with someone that changes th price, either. Hey Poston, has the SGU adjusted for inflation?($400😁)
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on July 10, 2019, 07:17:46 AMAH, Sawguy, you just have to explain to them that is a $50. saw with $500. worth of time, parts, and love added.
This is really true of the wood we make. The log is worth the least, typically. It's all the processing that we do that puts value in it. Walnut is not worth much as a log compared to all the time and labor added to get it to a dried planed piece of lumber. Yes, after processing it might be worth $4, $6,$8 or whatever per BF. Some novices/uneducated think that it what their Walnut is worth that much in log form. We (all of us on this forum) I think get tired of educating people on that.
I understand that people don't want to feel like they are being taken advantage of. They get conflicting info from the "friend" versus one of us. Sometimes you've just got to give them time to figure what it's really worth, and the value of getting it out of their yard.
Quote from: kelLOGg on July 10, 2019, 01:27:06 PM
I wouldn't blame the friend. Some people are just attracted to greed.
... and sometimes they are just looking out for you to make sure you don't get ripped off.
I think it's fair to point out that while this particular discussion has focused on "greed" and "value" .... like many tales that are blown out of proportion, the notion that the value of Black Walnut trees is super high is based in fact, and a fact that was well circulated back in the day.
I remember reading this article when it first came out, reprinted in a local newspaper and at that time I wasn't milling yet, hell I wasn't even working yet ... I was still slogging my way thru' the world of high school, but ..... this article spread like wildfire :
?Perfect? Walnut Tree Is Among 18 Sold for ,000 - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/1976/12/30/archives/perfect-walnut-tree-is-among-18-sold-for-80000.html)
There are many other verifiable reportings of high value logs in North America, so when people ask about the value of their trees, maybe cut them some slack and educate them politely and professionally ..... they may have read something like the article linked above.
Although perhaps not the reason in this case and I have never bought or sold a log but I have bought and sold many other items ;D.
No matter what side of the fence you are on, there always those that try to take advantage of a perceived ignorance or lack of knowledge :(. Trust must be earned and caution is always warranted when dealing with the unknown or those known not to be trusted!
A couple of year ago I had a local cattleman offer to rent 100 acres of ungrazed pasture of mine for 0.25/day per animal. This seemed extremely low so I asked a "friend" who I thought was more knowledgeable than I. He quickly educated me on grazing arrangements and I went to someone else who promptly offered me 1.25/day per animal. It just takes once incident like this to make one distrustful.
As with anything else the devil is in the details. In the case you mentioned the first guy may have been going on the principal that he will "take half, leave half" where the second guy would basically mine your grass to the parched dirt. Which example ends up being more profitable to you in the end? I see this same example all the time with "the hay guy" in these parts. A new one meanders through every couple years or so and plays the game of offering a few more $$ or a couple extra bales over what the landowner is getting now. Well, when the hay is cut 1" from the soil surface in August and everything bakes to a crisp with nothing being added back into the soil the cockleburs, mares tail, broom sedge, and sickle pod fill in the gaps quite nicely and the landowner is left with a bush hog haven.
Quote from: K-Guy on July 10, 2019, 02:00:43 PM
I hate when I find something for sale online, talk to them and agree to buy it only to find when I get there they want more money for it. I don't care if it's a dollar more, I walk away. I say it's the principal behind the deal, my wife says it's because I'm stubborn and hard-headed. ;D ;D
I say it is because you have integrity, honor and a sense of self worth.
A rare commodity now-a-days.
Amazing how many folks think/say they have it but demonstrate the opposite so many times in their actions.
Just look around and it is so prevalent.
Like a lot of us, many times I've been offered standing trees "for free," or if I know anyone who'd be interested. Even when one of my clients was taking all the free pines he could get from tree services, (and he got a lot!) he wouldn't be interested because of the associated costs involved. I try to explain the situation to these people. Some seem to understand, some don't. A few may actually think they're offering a favor to us. All of them are trying to get a job done for no cost.
I'm reminded of the saying "Never assume malice when ignorance will suffice".
I also agree with re-evaluating a situation where the price or conditions change.
I was cleaning up at a job we are going to work on, rebuilding a house after a fire. I shoved some rotten logs into the bonfire pile and my memory jogged. A few years ago the fellow had some trees cut around that house and a friend had a new sawmill. The logs were not much but would have been fine to learn on. I tried to put the two together. All of a sudden the logs had value and feelings got a little bruised. Well, now that fellow needs a mason and the fellow that had the new sawmill is one heck of a mason. Karma just bit. Funny thing is the fellow in need of a mason now has forgotten the injury he did. It does make me wonder how many times my elbows have been out and my brain off.
There are a lot of people who where never taught to 'put the shoe on the other foot'.
Quote from: Don P on July 12, 2019, 07:06:02 AM
I'm reminded of the saying "Never assume malice when ignorance will suffice".
I like this... a lot.... I was recently reminded that most folks just don't understand what we do or how we do it, or how dangerous it can be, or what sacrifices we make to do it, which is fine. There are a lot of things I don't understand either. But I try to understand if someone will educate me. I recently got really tweaked because I went out my way to help someone and they treated my expense of time as if it had little value. Probably because it wasn't their time being wasted. I believe most folks have no idea how much effort most of us expend in this 'stuff', those who are making a living are balancing all the business stuff and working long hours to get production out and product delivered hoping to stay profitable. Many can get that pretty easy. But those of us who are side-liners or heavy hobbyists are seen as just playing around and everything is free. Reality for most of us is that we work full time jobs, take care of the home and family, then fight to make time to do what we love. Sometimes we pick up a few bucks, but the whole deal is a net loss that we accept because we love it. When you put your work on hold to help someone else and they toss it aside, they have no idea what they were offered, nor what they just cast away, and they don't even get that they 'took' something from you. Yes, of course it's ignorance, but the effect is still the same. At my age, my time is more valuable to me than money.
Quote from: John Bartley on July 11, 2019, 07:12:46 AM
I remember reading this article when it first came out, reprinted in a local newspaper and at that time I wasn't milling yet, hell I wasn't even working yet ... I was still slogging my way thru' the world of high school, but ..... this article spread like wildfire :
?Perfect? Walnut Tree Is Among 18 Sold for ,000 - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/1976/12/30/archives/perfect-walnut-tree-is-among-18-sold-for-80000.html)
There are many other verifiable reportings of high value logs in North America, so when people ask about the value of their trees, maybe cut them some slack and educate them politely and professionally ..... they may have read something like the article linked above.
I don't understand why it would be worth so much other than cumulative value (of the number of logs sections and estimated quantity of veneer in each). I don't know how long their veneer knife is, but they'll have to cut the 57'er up to practical lengths. They can peel a certain amount off each log but as they get closer to the juvenile tree inside, they may start to find self pruned branch knots, maybe even a hollow.
Stories like that have done the opposite of educating the public, and help lead to what we run into, the urban myth of the highly valuable black walnut. No urban walnut is highly valuable, at least not in the veneer sense.
Quote from: Brad_bb on July 12, 2019, 02:11:42 PM
Quote from: John Bartley on July 11, 2019, 07:12:46 AM
I remember reading this article when it first came out, reprinted in a local newspaper and at that time I wasn't milling yet, hell I wasn't even working yet ... I was still slogging my way thru' the world of high school, but ..... this article spread like wildfire :
?Perfect? Walnut Tree Is Among 18 Sold for ,000 - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/1976/12/30/archives/perfect-walnut-tree-is-among-18-sold-for-80000.html)
There are many other verifiable reportings of high value logs in North America, so when people ask about the value of their trees, maybe cut them some slack and educate them politely and professionally ..... they may have read something like the article linked above.
I don't understand why it would be worth so much other than cumulative value (of the number of logs sections and estimated quantity of veneer in each). I don't know how long their veneer knife is, but they'll have to cut the 57'er up to practical lengths. They can peel a certain amount off each log but as they get closer to the juvenile tree inside, they may start to find self pruned branch knots, maybe even a hollow.
Stories like that have done the opposite of educating the public, and help lead to what we run into, the urban myth of the highly valuable black walnut. No urban walnut is highly valuable, at least not in the veneer sense.
I don't have the knowledge to discuss the value of an individual tree, and it's not really important anyway. For the purposes of this discussion, the point was that people don't see the "everyday". They see the sensational news story and in this case they saw a sale of "valuable" trees, which has since informed their opinion ... an opinion which may be wrong in fact, but which leads them to think the way they do. I think we're all guilty of that at one time or another, hence my suggestion to go easy and educate them where possible.
cheers
An item is only worth as little as someone will take for it and as much as someone will give? Both parties try to educate each other to find the point where the number is equal. That is a business deal. When both parties work to make sure each other is not cheated they become friends. A lot of business is all the rest and probably not a good thing for someone.
Quote from: ScottCC on July 12, 2019, 08:17:57 PM
An item is only worth as little as someone will take for it and as much as someone will give? Both parties try to educate each other to find the point where the number is equal. That is a business deal. When both parties work to make sure each other is not cheated they become friends. A lot of business is all the rest and probably not a good thing for someone.
Yup, the best deal is always the one where everyone wins. That's the basis for "word of mouth" recommendations.
I had a friend who had a son who had a wife who was building a house on a lot that was part of an old pine plantation an bit over 30 years old. The trees were in the 16" to 20" diameter range. My friend asked me if I wanted the trees that they needed to remove from the house site and potential yard. I said sure and went over to meet with the son and his wife. I offered to fell the trees and haul the wood, but as they were just common planted pine, I could not pay anything for them. They were OK until the wife's Dad came up. He said that no way could I have the trees as he had a friend who knew trees and these trees were worth a lot of money. I said OK and went home. A few months later I drove by and saw a big pile of logs by the new driveway. That is where they all rotted.
Are these the same people that buy lottery tickets and just know if they keep playing they will win the big one?? ??? ::) ::)
I had a customer call me I think it was last year. Job was about 10-12 miles from home. I knew something was wrong when I got there because it was a level lot, good access, neatly stacked logs, and even in the shade of a big old oak tree. I never get jobs like that. They were pines that had been down about 18 months. Another sawyer had promised to saw them on shares but never got around to it so he asked me to come saw them for framing for a family chapel he wanted to build. When I set up I could hear the sawyers chewing. First log - every 2' or less a 3/8" hole. We pulled a log off the top of the stack - same thing. We called the job after the second job. Might could have gotten sheeting but not suitable for framing. The guy tried to save a buck and lost it all. I had another neighbor took a load of walnut to another neighbor half a mile up the road who is 5-6 cents a bf cheaper than me. I passed by regularly and watched them sit for a year till he asked me to pick them up and saw them. Fortunately walnut is a lot more durable than pine.