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Low sulphur diesel

Started by petefrom bearswamp, March 08, 2009, 11:23:49 AM

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petefrom bearswamp

Perhaps this has been answered in the past.
Is my 51 HP Cat on my 08 lt40shdd51 compatible with low sulphur diesel?
I have read some horror stories about this fuel.
Pete

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

petefrom bearswamp

On the logging forum, Banjo Picker indicated that he thought this engine labeled CAT is actually made by Perkins.
Any comments?
Pete
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

stonebroke

Cat bought perkins a few years ago to supply small engines for them. I think this was when they started to get into skid steers and small excavators.

Stonebroke

bandmiller2

Pete perhaps you would be better off with a good grade of home heating oil,treated or mixed with a little kero in cooler weather.I manage a fleet of diesel trucks ,some old ,every week I add some Howes diesel treat to the fuel.Howes claims they replace the lubricity lost with the new low sulphur fuel.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Captain

All diesel fuel needs to meet ASTM (American Society for testing and materials) D-975 specification (2005 specification).  This specification specifically addresses lubricity.  When sulfur is removed, lubricity additives MUST be added per this specification. 

Low Sulfur Diesel (LSD) is what most of the country is on right now (500 ppm sulfur)

In 2010, ULSD (Ultra low sulfur diesel) at 15 ppm will be the federal law.  SOME PARTS of the country are already on ULSD at 15 ppm.

The fuel is stated to be back compatable with everything...on or off road.  The caveat to this is that some of the additive packages intended to clean the fuel system when introduced to older systems may disturb deposits that have formed; and for a short period of time fuel filter change intervals will have to increase.

Most manfacturers have come out with compatability statements regarding LSD.  I am not sure if CAT has.

Captain

eamassey

My local supplier is 15 ppm.  This fuel has given me problems.  I have two fairly new diesel tractors.  Both started giving problems starting and running.    Both tractors acted like they had water in the fuel, or a plugged fuel filter.  I changed the filters, but it did not help.  The smaller tractor finally quit and would not start. I called the dealer to pick it up, as it was still under warranty.  According to the dealer's top mechanic-- the factory engineer was called and said it was too-dry fuel, which had stuck the plates in the fuel injection pump.  The solution was to put ATF in the fuel filter, add ATF to the fuel tank, get started, run for hours under varying load and speeds (the dealer did all this).  It worked.   The second recommendation was to add one quart of ATF to every 50 gallon of fuel from now on.

I started using fuel with a quart of ATF + a pint of "Seller's" fuel conditioner in every 50 gallon .  The second tractor started working right after about 2 or 3 hours on the spiked up fuel.   

Both engines are late model Perkins-one tractor is MasseyFerguson 55 PTO HP with 200 hours, the other tractor is McCormick 84 PTO HP with about 600 hours.

I guess I will be adding to fuel from now on.

ErikC

 I have a turbo Perkins in my backhoe, many hours on it and it still starts and runs like it was new, I just use fuel as it comes from the pump.
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

TinMan

when I was running equipment, we used both off road and low sulfur. We were running new cat equipment,  247b and 308ccr. Just used what we had. Sometimes we filled up with low sulfer if we were out in the boonies. Never recall having any trouble. ;D ;D

Tracy

backwoods sawyer

After loosing a couple of pieces of equipment to the ethanol change over I have stuck with the off road fuel. It may be harder to get but I do not have problems with it. I also add an additive for storing it, as 55 gallons will cut a lot of lumber.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

logwalker

The off road fuel can also be LSD. It just has the dye added.
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Captain

Hey guys, got a couple of IM questions on my earlier post, so some clarificaiton:

I was talking about OFF ROAD diesel fuel (not very apparent in my post  :))

On road diesel is already ULSD.

Thanks!!

Captain

petefrom bearswamp

Hi all,
so many conflicting opinions.
Holy crap, I am 71 yrs old and I run my equipment about 100 hrs per year, shouldn't blow up until after I'm gone.
Will let the next owner worry about this issue
Thanks to all
Pete
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Ironwood

Pete and others,

Part of the problem w/ this is some states and suppliers are a little later to the game than others in terms of converting even off road diesel to LSD. To my understanding it is going to happen all across the country in time, and most are intransion now. 

The ethanol issue is yet another thorn in our sides, one which will cost nearly all of us some money in time from running older small engines. Personally, I am trying to treat all fuels I get, and assuming the worst case (ALL diesel is ULSD, and all gas is ETHANOL laden beyond what the pump reads).

Pete, your comment stating "let the next guy deal w/ it" reminds me of my nieghbor who used to cut out rotten water heater tanks to pipe his ditch w/. Now I am having to fix the issue as he has passed, ole feller was right, guess I AM the next guy :D ::). Perhaps he knew I'd be thinking of him ;)

Ironwood


         
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

bandmiller2

Is #2 home heating oil low sulfur?? Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Ironwood

Depends on where you are, some states HAVE converted, others no.


      Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Banjo picker

Quote from: logwalker on March 09, 2009, 11:50:42 AM
The off road fuel can also be LSD. It just has the dye added.

In the 60's & 70's that stuff was ruining the teenagers and now it has attacked our fuel. :D  Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

bandmiller2

Correct me if I'am wrong,I always thought sulphur in fuel was a bad thing.Sulphur occures naturally in petrol and before it just cost too much to remove it.Detroit diesel has always recomended fuel with a lower sulphur content.I think in removing the sulphur they lightened the fuel by removing outher things ,they used to claim #1 diesel was dry fuel not having much to lube the injector pump.Perhaps synthetic 2 cyc. oil added say 100/1 or leaner would do nothing but good in ultra low diesel fuel.That would be too costly on over the road or large machines but its the smaller older diesels we;re having trouble with.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Banjo picker

Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 11, 2009, 07:45:18 AM
Perhaps synthetic 2 cyc. oil added say 100/1 or leaner would do nothing but good in ultra low diesel fuel.That would be too costly on over the road or large machines but its the smaller older diesels we;re having trouble with.Frank C.

One of the guys in the parts house I use did recommend using 2 cyc. oil mix.  Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Ironwood

I have also heard of running two cycle in the diesel, one guy said it gave him 2 MPG more to boot.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Bryan A

Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 11, 2009, 07:45:18 AM
Correct me if I'am wrong,I always thought sulphur in fuel was a bad thing.Sulphur occures naturally in petrol and before it just cost too much to remove it.Detroit diesel has always recomended fuel with a lower sulphur content.I think in removing the sulphur they lightened the fuel by removing outher things ,they used to claim #1 diesel was dry fuel not having much to lube the injector pump.Perhaps synthetic 2 cyc. oil added say 100/1 or leaner would do nothing but good in ultra low diesel fuel.That would be too costly on over the road or large machines but its the smaller older diesels we;re having trouble with.Frank C.

It's the process used to remove the sulphur that is the problem, in the process it removes some of the lubricity. I've heard of the 2 cycle oil also, though I havn't had the sack to try it in a $40k truck yet. I don't see what harm it could do but I'd rather someone else experiment and let me know on that.

Dale Hatfield

I run 3 cummins trucks now and ag and forestry equipment all diesel. I keep power service or howes in all of my fuel to keep gell monsters away. A pint of 2 stroke mix isnt gonna hurt anything might help .Ive used it  and motor oil in mine never had a lick of trouble 230 k on a 95 ,185k on the 98, 30k on 07, All still running OEM Injection pump. Ive the 95 on 40 % motor oil. It likes whatever ya pour in it. I have never ran tranny fluid in one as it has cleaner and friction stuff in it didnt figger it would be good for todays  motors
In ohio i dont think their is any diff in fuel for on or off road cept dye and price.
Game Of Logging trainer,  College instructor of logging/Tree Care
Chainsaw Carver

bandmiller2

I don't know how potent the red dye is in ATF but its probibly the same dye they use in off road fuel, wouldn't want any red in your truck tank,they get testy about that if you get checked.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Polly

thats the problem using trans fluid the red coloring  :(

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