The Wide Board Club

[WDH]

Had a call yesterday from a guy wanting to make a bench out of red oak.  He specified 1" to 1.5" thick and 24" wide and 7' long.  I asked him if he wanted boards that would add up to the 24" of width, but he said, "No.  I want a single board 24" wide".  When I asked why the board had to be 24" wide, he responded that he did not want to spend the time gluing up several boards.  I did not even try to talk him out of it.  Of course, I did not have a red oak board that wide anyway.  I try not to saw anything wider than I can plane, and that is 20" max. 

I get these calls a lot.  I deal with some really skilled wood workers, but also many beginners and novices.  What many people do not understand is that if the 24" wide board is not cut perfectly from the center of the log, the board will have flatsawn, rift sawn, and usually quartersawn grain across the face of the board.  Since quarter and rift grain shrinks less than flatsawn, it is very hard to dry a 24" board perfectly flat because of this differential shrinkage.  They are very prone to cup, which in a board that wide, usually cannot be planed out.   If the board is in fact sawn from the dead center of the log, it will be quartersawn across the width, but the the juvenile wood and the pith and center ALWAYS cracks and splits in oak.  This is usually not desirable. 

I call these folks members of The Wide Board Club. 

[Don P]

I spent a couple of hours last night trying to politely write someone who will only hear the music in their own head. I think much of the current proliferation of wide milling capability is going to people with no real understanding of how wood behaves. Yup we can mill wide and you can make something out of it, but go carefully my friend.

[Kbeitz]

I'm in that market. Or I'm working on it. Lots of people as me for he same thing. so I'm cutting really wide stuff real thick. Then I'm letting it dry and I built a router plane to make it flat again after it drys. No clue if it will work but I'm going to give it a try.

[TKehl]

You just need a bunch of logs 54" diameter and wider so you can get single 24" quarter sawn boards from half the log without including the pith.  I don't see a problem here...   :D  ;D  :D  ;D  :D  ;D

8)  8)  8)

[muggs]

I have dealt with that my whole life of selling lumber. 
A lot of people find gluing intimidating. I solved it by gluing up panels and charging a big premium.  :   Muggs

[pineywoods]

The wide board club is wide spread : I get lots of woodworker customers who don't comprehend that 2 10 inch boards is much better than a single 20 inch. I haven't tried offering to glue up 2 or three boards and charging accordingly. Might be a good idea..

[Bruno of NH]

That's why I'm getting out of the contracting business no one wants to listen to you any more.
They know it all already.
They see a wide board on tv and think it one board not 3 glued up.
I sell firewood now.
Last week a women calls me up desperate for wood.Tell her all I have is green wood by the cord or 1/3 of a cord.
She says can't do that all I have is $40 .
She asks if she can come get it. I again tell her it's green ,wants it any way.
Calls me up Sunday wants a refund on the wood it's no good.
Tell I'm come get the money Monday.
She tells me it's my fault meet her at her work.
I do and she won't come out wants the money slid under the door.
I  tell her no money unless you come out finally goes.
The new world order we live in

[TKehl]

You just need a bunch of logs 54" diameter and wider so you can get single 24" quarter sawn boards from half the log without including the pith.  I don't see a problem here...

Hmmm...  I realized my figures were off.  To avoid drying issues, you really should cut off the sapwood.  So the logs need to be a bit bigger than 54", but diameter required would vary by species.  ;) ;D

[warren46]

Sometimes the appearance of a really wide board is attractive (in the eye or the beholder).  When I wanted a 24 inch board for a dresser top I took a 26 inch wide board that had dried and of course cupped.  I then ripped it into three narrower boards, jointed the edges and planned to 3/4 in thick.  I then glued the boards back together matching the grain.  I got a top that look like it is a 24" board with rift and flat sawn grain.  It has stayed flat for some 20 years.

I like the looks and get a lot of positive comments about it.

Warren

[Southside]

someone who will only hear the music in their own head

Wait - I hear music in my head...:D

[LeeB]

Is it music they hear or just the wind whistling through?

[starmac]

I have seen some really nice bar and counters that were wide and live edge, how is it that they saw these for the best success, some I have seen were pretty old. The ones I have seen were pretty thick.

[thecfarm]

I get people like that all the time in the hardware store. They are looking for that certain answer in thier head. Even though they asked me to help them. : 

[Magicman]

I put a customer in the Wide Board Club today with many 20"-26" 9/4 Walnut two live edge slabs.  ;D

[Larry]

The Arkansas chapter of the Wide Board Club is alive and well. I had two inquiries from members this week. It seems like the membership here may not be the sharpest and also don't have very deep pockets.

I always politely refer these people to my almost neighbor. He has been doing slabs as a full time business for nearly 30 years. Has a Lucas slabber, kiln, all the right equipment to process slabs, showroom, and plenty of inventory. He says most of the members of the club are only slab kickers, something I have also learned.

[Peter Drouin]

That's why I'm not into wide wood, unless it's 1" thick pine board.

[WDH]

Slab kickers :D :D. 

[21incher]

Send them to @tule peak timber 
 he is king of the Extra Wide Board Club. ;D

[tule peak timber]

Someone say wide ?

[Southside]

Had a charter member contact me this morning.  Has one highly valuable 400 bft (18' long) walnut log to be sawn, into full width boards.  Told the customer best to bring it here given it's a small volume and would be 100 miles of driving for me so the normal bft sawing rate would not apply.  Didn't like that answer and wanted a price.  So I explained that it would cost one Standard Goat Unit ($300) for me to travel there and complete the sawing.  That was when the crickets came out...slab kickers. 

[Roxie]

 One Standard Goat Unit ($300)    :D :D :D

[WDH]

A SGU. 

[123maxbars]

Good post Danny, 

[scsmith42]

Did somebody say wide board club?



Bald cypress with 1000 growth rings





20" QS if I recall correctly.



19.5" QSWO




The one to my right is 48" at the narrow part.


And one of my personal favorites....  72" wide





This one isn't very wide but it's 44' long!

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Tule Peak and Scott Smith make me dizzy.....

[69bronco]

Scott, that old dog sure thinks a lot of you!

[scsmith42]

Scott, that old dog sure thinks a lot of you!

She's a Daddy's girl for sure!

[barbender]

Standard Goat Unit! The good ol' SGU, I love it!!😂😂😂

[Southside]

The futures market has the exchange rate for the SGU trading well above Bitcoin and the Euro.... :D

[LeeB]

It's a bull goat market for sure. On second thought, maybe it is a bull .... market.  :D

[WDH]

I recently sold a cedar bench for 1.7 SGU's . 

Customer:  "I need to get a quote on a 2" thick, 8' long, 39" wide farm table".  My reply, "I could not do it for less than 3 SGU's". 

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

It's a bull goat market for sure. On second thought, maybe it is a bull .... market.  :D

Lee, it's obviously a Billy Goat Market...
:D ;D :D ;D :D ;D
Herb

[Southside]

If you have ever noticed Google Earth allows you to measure things in "smoots" well we have now officially developed the SGU as a currency measurement!!  

[Texas Ranger]

SGU's can be broken into smaller units, horns and beards.  Note, nothing on castration.

[thecfarm]

A blue rubber band will straighten out the casteration problem on a goat.

[Banjo picker]

Jeff you are gona need to put the SGU into the knowledge base.  We are all getting older, and we will see that later on and won't know what it is.   ;)  Banjo

[Banjo picker]

Let me change that to the forestry forum dictionary.  Banjo

[ellmoe]

   Read a different post before this one, Danny mentioned moving a slab for one SGU. "What the heck"? ... NOW, I understand. SGU, the beginning of an era. :D

[Holmes]

Someone say wide ?

Just curious are you going to make tables with that wood or just glue it all back together and make a BIG Stump?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I recently sold a cedar bench for 1.7 SGU's .  

Customer:  "I need to get a quote on a 2" thick, 8' long, 39" wide farm table".  My reply, "I could not do it for less than 3 SGU's".

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Now 
this is funny, I don't care who you are!  :D

[barbender]

😂😂😂😂It's hard to imagine that long ago in Forum history, we had no goat! Now he is even forming his own currency!😂

[tule peak timber]

Someone say wide ?

Just curious are you going to make tables with that wood or just glue it all back together and make a BIG Stump?

The stump..

[nativewolf]

Tule, nice log.   Do you have much competition for that sort of log?  I have someone seeking a container of at least 40" and larger walnut crotch logs at least 8' long and 36" min at small end.  Not that it takes many logs to make a container at that rate but still. I'm just wondering is there a special market I'm missing out on?  We don't get many over 40" but I could set them aside and make a market once or twice a year I guess.  The American Black Walnut that we normally cut just doesn't get as big as those CA Claro.

[PA_Walnut]

Do you have much competition for that sort of log?  I have someone seeking a container of at least 40" and larger walnut crotch logs at least 8' long and 36" min at small end.  Not that it takes many logs to make a container at that rate but still. I'm just wondering is there a special market I'm missing out on?

You generally can find these and the end of double rainbows. Single rainbows only have pots of gold. (and are worth less). :D

[tule peak timber]

There is enough competition that I'm backing away a bit. Advertising about "20,000 $" per slab, log prices escalating, and ANYONE with a chainsaw is now in the slab business.Caveat emptor.....

[nativewolf]

I have 4 sitting on my log stash pile, well 1 of them is only 6' long but oh so nice.  They don't compare to that Claro though.

I hear you on backing away however, if you want to buy mine at only $10k per pop...for a fellow FF member I'll box and send to you.  What is that ...333 goat units?  what a bargin

[PA_Walnut]

Everyone with a walnut log, chainsaw and Etsy is now in the slabbing business. 

[Darrel]

I've come to the conclusion that being a member of the WBC doesn't cost a SGU! What a bargain!

[tule peak timber]

A not so wide slab table we finished today. Mesquite with copper inlay.

[Southside]

Everyone with a walnut log, chainsaw and Etsy is now in the slabbing business.  

Yup - and everybody on Facebook with a portable table saw and a suitcase planer is a custom furniture builder as well.  I know - they come here to buy $80 worth of lumber and then offer it for $1,000.  say_what 

[Southside]

Mesquite with copper inlay.

That is beautiful.  Do you smelt the copper and pour it yourself?  How complicated it that process?

[PA_Walnut]

That is beautiful.  Do you smelt the copper and pour it yourself?  How complicated it that process?

I can't answer for Tule Peak, but often times colored epoxy fillers (even with metallic flakes) are used on tables. I've used all sorts of colors...in fact, I have a walnut slab table in process that I'm filling with bronze epoxy . 

I'll take some pix and post them soon. The process requires patience, but is relatively easy. Wooden or bronze butterflies are also used. I have both. I'd love to melt cooper, aluminum, silver to cast my own, but that's a ways down the life-goals list.

[Jeff]

Let me change that to the forestry forum dictionary.  Banjo

Forestry Forum Dictionary

[Roxie]

I just love this place.  :D 8)

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I have NEVER laughed at a thread this much since i've been on the FF.
This is HILARIOUS!  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[thecfarm]

Jeff did a good job with that definition. I think he has way to much time on his hands. Check out some of the reason to join,if you never had to put that down to join. swampdonkey in a swimsuit????  say_what

[Southside]

Jeff - 

What about a currency converter as part of the tool box, this way folks can quickly and easily know the true value of what's in their wallet.   ;D

[WDH]

 :D :D :D

SGU

:D :D :D

I love this place, too.....goat and all.

[Brad_bb]

You know I see a lot of slabs, and a lot of sticker slabbed logs, but I don't know anyone that actually has a slab table.  I guess I need some rich'er friends?!

[Ianab]

You know I see a lot of slabs, and a lot of sticker slabbed logs, but I don't know anyone that actually has a slab table.

Make yourself one, then you will be the "rich" person to your friends. ;):D

Heck it's not that hard to make a table. Mine only needed 3 boards.

[nativewolf]

You know I see a lot of slabs, and a lot of sticker slabbed logs, but I don't know anyone that actually has a slab table.  I guess I need some rich'er friends?!

Good friends have them, hot item here in DC.  

[SawyerTed]

I have laughed harder recently but I can't remember when.  :D :D :D

Here it takes a minimum of two standard goats to equal a SGU!  

[Jeff]

You know I see a lot of slabs, and a lot of sticker slabbed logs, but I don't know anyone that actually has a slab table.  I guess I need some rich'er friends?!

Uh hum! I take a 19ft long 3inches thick 60 inches wide 1635 year old slab pig roast tables and turn em into truck beds! You don't know anyone else that ever did that!

[Brad_bb]

Where is that thread Jeff?  I saw the running board in your gallery.

I'm talking about the big slab tables.  from trees 35+ with crotches.

[Jeff]

Big enough?

Pigroast Table Large Forestry Forum redwood display table for sawlex. in General Woodworking



MR. Truck  Taking Delivery in General Board



 

[PA_Walnut]

You know I see a lot of slabs, and a lot of sticker slabbed logs, but I don't know anyone that actually has a slab table.  I guess I need some rich'er friends?!

Brad, your "walnut neighbor" dude may want a walnut slab table to match his mantle! :D

[tule peak timber]

Not wide , but fairly long, 86 feet. Forming up this bar top today, with copper inlay tenons at each joint. Rob

[Brad_bb]

Tule, I hope it comes apart for moving it?!

[tule peak timber]

Yes sir !

[Southside]

When I was a kid I played around with model airplanes and a guy down the road a ways helped me a lot. He built his own plane in his basement over something like 20 years. Well, somewhere along the way the basement door must have shrunk as when it came time for the plane to leave the basement there was a little problem. I never knew how that all ended up.

[Ianab]

How about this one?
It's in the Kauri Museum in Northland. It's one single (clear) board, and ~6" thick. The top alone weighs about one ton. 

[tule peak timber]

A beautiful table Ianab ! What did you use for a finish in that beast ? Nice work !

[Dakota]

My my, that's quite a slab.

[Dave Shepard]

When I was a kid I played around with model airplanes and a guy down the road a ways helped me a lot. He built his own plane in his basement over something like 20 years. Well, somewhere along the way the basement door must have shrunk as when it came time for the plane to leave the basement there was a little problem. I never knew how that all ended up.

I knew someone who built his own plane. He was bombing around in the neighbors hay field and it took off on him. He didn't know how to fly a plane, and never intended to gain altitude.  :D

[Darrel]

About 1978, I worked at a large mill on the Northern California coast that won the bid to cut all the lumber needed for the restoration of Fort Ross State historic Park. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=449  So the logs were halled in, 10' to 14' diameter redwoods that had toppled in storm in one of the redwood state parks. The cut list was as spectacular as the logs. Most of it 3" thick, width ranging 6" - 24" in width with a few 36" width thrown in for good measure. There was one board on the cut list that was to be cut out of Sitka spruce. 3"x36"x24' #1 or better to be used for a table top. Took us a day and a half to find that board. 

So about five years later, I had a chance to go see the restored Fort Ross. It was kinda cool looking at the finished restoration knowing I had already seen all the boards and touched many of them. But there was something missing. I couldn't find that 24' table anywhere so I asked about it. "Oh that, we cut that into three 8' tables tops. We wondered why the mill sent it as one piece."  

Because it was on the cut list. 

[barbender]

When long lengths are specified on a cut list, I have learned to ALWAYS verify that length is actually needed. I become tempted to strangle folks when they show up and cut the 24' into 2 12's👎

[Dave Shepard]

Charge a significant premium for the longer stuff and explain why. 

[Ianab]

A beautiful table Ianab ! What did you use for a finish in that beast ? Nice work !

Not my table unfortunately. It's in a museum, although I think it was built in the 70s. Used to be the boardroom table for a local brewery.

[Don_Papenburg]

I like wide boards myself .  But when I ran out of 1x8 walnut I had to go to a woodworkers shop store .  the guy was trying to sell me two 1x4s glued together as a 1x8 . The grain did not match and one had sapwood in the glue joint. He tried his darndest to convince me that it was not a glue up . Then that you could not get 8inch walnut any more .  

Most of the cabinets that I have seen with glue up panels come with mismatch joints (no book matching) or they have a three board panel with a thin strip glued on that does not match color wise . Oh and the panel was less than 10 inches wide.    I think that is what feeds the need for wide board club members.

[Brad_bb]

That's crazy Don.  That guy is crazy thinking people will believe him.  I wonder if they glue up panels in cabinets more to help with stability over time?  It can't be cost I'm thinking because the cost of a wide board is probably as much as smaller boards plus labor to glue them up and surface them?

[Don P]

I doubt the salesboy knew it was a glueup until it was pointed out, then he was just trying to bs his way out of the jam.

In production furniture we would glue up for stability. Lumber would come in random width KD, the stuff you guys are sawing. We would crosscut to rough length, then straightline rip to no wider than 4-1/2" wide, then  RF panel glueup, double end tenoner, wide belt sander and the panel was ready to go into a piece. The tail of the straightline would "make" the panel, that is a pretty high speed job mostly defect checking and giving quick dimensions to the operator. At the rate I was gluing color matching was very hit and miss, the press would open every 30-60 seconds and in would go the next batch of 6-12 panels. I would catch the boards off the glue reel, unshuffle the deck getting dry edges turned in at each panel edge, make a few quick alignments and obvious matches and crank in the next load. Sadly that is the rate most of that stuff is done at. I was making $5/hr. As the wood value went up we would slow down but it is not custom paced.

In a custom shop we would bring in bundles of "16 and wider" Honduran mahogany, nothing narrower than 16" wide, and in a wood like mahogany you can usually get away with it. We did have one client that wanted 3 and 4' wide raised panels in a built in library. The boss tried to talk him out of it but the customer ended up being right. We installed althought the circle top windows were delayed, and it rained. The raised panels indeed expanded more than the frames could handle and the walls of the house moved as well as the paneling.

We got an order from a member yesterday for a wedding guest registry plank... 18" wide x24" long x 1" thick. I'll make one but will also glue up one or two. Not a good idea but my partner said today "it'll last longer than that marriage". I'm not sure if that made me feel better about it or not :D

[SwampDonkey]

You southern folk build furniture way too heavy. ;D :D

[Don_Papenburg]

This sales boy was older then me , he knew better but thought that i would fall for the BS. 
 I was wondering about that production "custom" cabinets that they sell in the big box stores.   
 The way I was told by the old carpenters when I was a kid  : 
the raised panel in a frame would stay straight because the frame kept it that way . Therefore you could use the larger panel and not have to put in a ugly glue joint. If you needed a glue joint, you bookmatched the joint, or you did your very best at aligning grain patterns so the joint would not show without close inspection .
Brad the guy was looking for a dollar any way he could get it . I am thinking he was pinching for the lowest cost walnut he could get , to sell at the highest price .  He was the guy that took over after the Woodworkers Shop sold out in Morris.

[SwampDonkey]

Cartography at the prized dining table. ;D

SWEETWATER Movie Clip starring Ed Harris - YouTube

[FalconFan]

Found this one at the local lumber yard...

[WDH]

Try to put that one thru your planer. 

[tule peak timber]

We worked with Parota once-NEVER again ! :(

[Texas Ranger]

You southern folk build furniture way too heavy. ;D :D

We are some what larger than our norther cousins!  8)

[Darrel]

Try to put that one thru your planer.

Looks like they need to get together with a member of the wide planer club! :D

[SwampDonkey]

Try to put that one thru your planer.

All you need is some glass. ;D

My grand parents used broken glass to smooth rough sawed maple flooring in a newly constructed farm house in the 40's. My grandfather only knew work, dad was trained well. Not one of those "farming from the pick-up truck" farmers with condos at ski resorts. :D