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advice on building bandsaw mill ??

Started by buildthisfixthat, July 20, 2011, 09:33:52 PM

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buildthisfixthat

first witch motor should i use i have a 10-h/p kohler or 2-cyl wisconsin ?the biggest cut i will make is -14"also do the wheels have to be the same size if so why? i have some 6"wide x 8" flat wheels can i use them or should i find some with a crown instead of flat also should i put rubber on them ?thanks in advance and no buying one is not an option !!!even if some one had a new wood  miser for 500.00 dollars i just could not buyit so i need to build one
shop built bandsaw mill

Tullivor

Buddy I have been using a kohler engine and am very pleased, I have a 16 hp and just cut through a 24" spruce like it was butter.  I am not sure If the wheels have to be of the same size but in my opinion it make more sense for getting a straighter cut, but depending on where the tension wheels were maybe it could be made to work.  The rubber is necessary for traction.  Good luck with the building of the mill, post some pics of your progress!

york

Hi there,

for what your building,the 2 cyl. wiscon may be over kill-as for the band wheels,you really need nothing less than 19 inch v-belt type pulleys-look hard for them,may find cheap,because others,have upgraded to 25 in-may even find on this forum...
good luck.....bert
Albert

bandmiller2

Downeast neighbor,the wisconsin would be the pick of the litter,I ran a bandmill with one for years til I converted to electric.If I was building on the cheap I'd use those donut spare auto tires.Boath wheels should be the same size if anything for ease of manufacture.If you can find at least 19" "V" pulleys they make for a neater package.Build everything adjustable and heavy duty,theirs alot of tension on the wheels and weight on the bed.Good luck keep us posted. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Magicman

Ditto on the donut wheels.  The larger bandwheels allow for less band flex as it travels around and will greatly increase the band life.  Depending upon your mill design, larger bandwheels also increases the throat size and allows for sawing larger logs.

Good luck and keep us posted.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

buildthisfixthat

ok on the 19 "v-belt pulley what size pulley do i need on the motor ?i have a lead on a big old walker-turner band saw i was thinking may be a good head start for 100.00 bucks ?as far as the the motors go will the 10 h/p kohler cut slower than the 16 -h/p wisconsin twin cyl ..i know it weights twice as much ..?the 10-h/p has a clutch on it .the wisconsin does not i will have to set up a pulley to engauge the belt ..i just dont want to be changeing engines after its built ...as it stands right now im going with the wisconsin pick of the litter ...also i will be cutting mostly pine,some few ash with the saw any oak or large logs i will have cut at the old circle mill next town over by the way is quite a set-up has a bout a 24"head-saw ,52"lead saw can cut a 36"log powered by a 300-hp mack truck engine w/5-spd trans w/hydraulic edger and a 3-phase gen for hyd pump power old wood carrage w/4 dogs
shop built bandsaw mill

Magicman

While you are designing, also think about a brake.  After you disengage, you don't want the band to keep on turning.

It's kinda like your car.  It's more important to have good brakes than an accelerator.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

shelbycharger400

run the 10 hp kohler!    you have your clutch.  and the engine is cheap to rebuild.   later,  you can put a 12 hp piston/rod and crank into that block with an overbore.  i think most of the stuff is interchangeable  up to the 16 or 18 hp engines...    plus is you dont have to mix gas, and runs good at 3 k .     if you do your research, and have money later,  that 10hp cast iron block kohler..air cooled can be cranked up to 50 hp!!!    i know people that use them in racing lawn mowers.   

2 cycle wis... have to mix gas....  it prob will make a lot more useable power, but  i asume it will be noisy ?   down side ...is you need to clutch it.

10 hp kohlers....  can get clutchs for $80 up to $300 for extreme duty clutches.

buildthisfixthat

oh the 2 cylinder thd wisconsin engine not 2-strok ..kohlers are great engines ,,have not started welding anything yet still figuering the engine placement ,i have two  1-7/16 shafts w/pillow block bearings that i was figureing to support the wheels three bearings on the drive wheel and 2 on the idle shaft wheel and i have a disc brake i can put on also ,,as for using auto tires i check a few 24"dia trailer tires today spun them up to about 1000 rpm they are not true enough for a bandsaw so have to find more no luck on spare tires yet also should they be flat or trimed to a certain shape?for the blade
shop built bandsaw mill

bandmiller2

I believe Turner bandmills use trailer tires,you may want to look them up.Its my belief that pneumatic tires don't have to be as even as steel or "V" belt tire pulleys due to give and cushion effect of the air.Most I've seen just used tires as they came,not sure what they run for pressure.If you can find a set of "V" sheeves/pulleys more the better as their easier to mount on a shaft with taperloc and make a more compact neater mill.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

fishpharmer

buildthisfixthat,  your on the right track. The FF members will help you build a workable mill.  They helped me build mine.  Looking thru member photos and threads that built mills may help.  Course you probably have done that already.   The ten hp Kohler engine would be my choice.  Probably newer (can get parts)  and lighter in weight.  It will help to have a clutch and brake, yet, you can work around both.  Keep it simple, at least at first.   Make everything adjustable.

Trailer tires would be my choice, because they are much less expensive when new as well as readily available.   You may have to try several trailer tire, wheel combos before you find a set that runs true.  That was my experience.  On my mill, I used trailer hubs welded onto the end of a long (24"?) shaft.  Then a machine shop turned the face of the hub (after removing lugs) until it ran true.  That is the drive shaft and runs through pilllow block bearings.  The idle side has a stub shaft welded into a 2 way adjustable "hing".   Pics of those items are in my gallery.   Be persistant, it will come together.

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

shelbycharger400

just thinking,  you could take one rear spindle, drum and bearings from 80's  front wheel drive chrysler, should be able to get that for 25,   but its either 4 on 4 1/4   or 5 on 4 1/4 pattern. .   it uses 4 bolts to hold it on to the rear axle.  knock the drum off the hub. 

now other end..  you could have a shaft welded to the inner hub from the other side

last time i got both hubs, bearings , and spindles for about $50.

wheels and tires for those are everwhere.

buildthisfixthat

good idea on the hubs ,i have a trailer axle w/5 lug wheels i am considering using them or one for the idle wheel ,i found a 24-inch iron flat belt wheel its 4 inches wide w/slight crown on center but its not perfect its has about 1/8 inch runout is that to much ??whats the runout on youre band wheels ,,also any promblem with running 1 steel and 1 tire ?also what rpm should the 24 "wheel turn at??
shop built bandsaw mill

fishpharmer

Shelby charger, thats a good idea.
Buildthis..., not really sure if thats to much runout.  Guess it depends on if it causes so
Muchh vibration that it shakes the mill head or throws a band.  Not sure why you couldn't run metal flat belt wheel and tire.  It should work, if thats what you have, try it.  Its your mill, you can change it later.  It took me a while to realize that when you change one little thing on the moving parts, it effects the other moving parts. 

Have you seen member rbarshaw 's homemade mill?  He is about done with his second version that has steel wheels.

Keep plugging along.
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

buildthisfixthat

yes i check out rbarsh aws ill bet he knows runout can be on the wheels and about the crown on them ,,well i located more parts like ..gear rack for up-dn and a 80;1worm drive for up-dn ..track wheels 8 lug rim tire for the other wheel 6 pollow block bearings .what is the blade speed fpm on these saws ?
shop built bandsaw mill

Lohok27

Quote from: buildthisfixthat on July 24, 2011, 10:38:56 PM
good idea on the hubs ,i have a trailer axle w/5 lug wheels i am considering using them or one for the idle wheel ,i found a 24-inch iron flat belt wheel its 4 inches wide w/slight crown on center but its not perfect its has about 1/8 inch runout is that to much ??whats the runout on youre band wheels ,,also any promblem with running 1 steel and 1 tire ?also what rpm should the 24 "wheel turn at??

At the risk of sounding like an "expert", here goes... The ideal shear speed for wood fiber is 5000 and 6000 feet per minute. The phrase a mile a minute is an easy rule to remember. Faster than that and the blade gets too warm and burns, slower and it has a tendency to tear rather than cut the fibers. A 24" wheel has about a 75.36" (6.28')circumfrence. 6.28' divided by 5280 (a mile) is about 840 revolutions per minute for the 24" wheel. To hit this range, take the operating rpm's of the motor you're going to use and divide the revolutions you want the wheel to turn at. 3500 rpm's divided by 840= 4.166.
So that means a 4.166 reduction. 24" divided by 4.166= 5.76".
Running at 3500 rpm's with a 24" wheel, you want a 5.76" shiv to hit your 5280 feet per minute blade speed. A little larger will speed it up a bit, a little smaller will slow it down a bit.

~Disclaimer~
This is life according to me. You all are more than welcome to correct me.  :D
Rule #1 Don't panic.
Rule #2 In case of panic, refer to rule #1.

beenthere

Quote from: Lohok27 on July 27, 2011, 10:49:08 AM............. The ideal shear speed for wood fiber is 5000 and 6000 feet per minute. ...................

"shear speed"  That is a term I've not heard before. Where does it come from? and what does it mean?  ???
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

buildthisfixthat

Quote from: Lohok27 on July 27, 2011, 10:49:08 AM
Quote from: buildthisfixthat on July 24, 2011, 10:38:56 PM
good idea on the hubs ,i have a trailer axle w/5 lug wheels i am considering using them or one for the idle wheel ,i found a 24-inch iron flat belt wheel its 4 inches wide w/slight crown on center but its not perfect its has about 1/8 inch runout is that to much ??whats the runout on youre band wheels ,,also any promblem with running 1 steel and 1 tire ?also what rpm should the 24 "wheel turn at??

At the risk of sounding like an "expert", here goes... The ideal shear speed for wood fiber is 5000 and 6000 feet per minute. The phrase a mile a minute is an easy rule to remember. Faster than that and the blade gets too warm and burns, slower and it has a tendency to tear rather than cut the fibers. A 24" wheel has about a 75.36" (6.28')circumfrence. 6.28' divided by 5280 (a mile) is about 840 revolutions per minute for the 24" wheel. To hit this range, take the operating rpm's of the motor you're going to use and divide the revolutions you want the wheel to turn at. 3500 rpm's divided by 840= 4.166.
So that means a 4.166 reduction. 24" divided by 4.166= 5.76".
Running at 3500 rpm's with a 24" wheel, you want a 5.76" shiv to hit your 5280 feet per minute blade speed. A little larger will speed it up a bit, a little smaller will slow it down a bit.

~Disclaimer~
This is life according to me. You all are more than welcome to correct me.  :D
ok i would say im going to be running at 2400 -2800rpms under load ..i have a 3"drive pulley on the engine ,7"driven pulley on the one end of shaft and the other end has a 24" wheel ???
shop built bandsaw mill

shelbycharger400

           2400 is too low of an rpm for that single cylinder,  go 80 percent of max rpm

3000 rpm @ 3in pulley  into the 7 in pulley = .4285,   so the big shaft  will run @ 1258.5 rpm
6.28feet per revolution x1258.5rpm  = 7903.38 feet per minute

2400 @ 3 in pulley into the 7 in pulley = .4285, big shaft will run @ 1028.4
6.28x 1028.4 = 6458.35 feet per minute

buildthisfixthat

thanks ill be running the twin cylinder wisconsin engine 18 h/p has lots of torqe also im looking to run a hydraulic blade tenisioner any input would be helpful any one have a photo of one on the saw?and whats the pressure ?
shop built bandsaw mill

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