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Radial arm saw

Started by Osric, December 03, 2008, 09:17:15 PM

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Engineer

I have a DeWalt MBF 9" RAS that I have sitting in storage right now, no room in the shop.  It's a tiny little saw but it is great if you can fit it with a 6" dado stack.  Sliding compound miter saws can do dadoes but it's very difficult.  Yeah, I know, there are other ways to do 'em, router and table saw being the best, but I grew up in woodshop 7-12th grades using a big 16" radial arm saw to cut dadoes and I still think it's a decent way to go.  However, the technology has not "grown up" as can be said of other woodworking technology, regarding accuracy.   What I will probably do with this saw is set it up to simply rough cut lumber to length, and leave it at that.  I get really accurate cuts from my Bosch 10" slider, and I have no intention of giving that up.  I know a guy locally who is trying to get rid of a 50's vintage Delta 14" RAS in minty condition, with a single phase 2 hp motor, and I wish I had the room for it, but I have no idea why I'd need it.

There are radial arms out there that can be locked in with excellent accuracy and repeatability, but they will not be cheap.  I guess what I'm saying is that there are better, easier ways to cut wood than a radial arm saw, and except for the fact I already have one, and like the old tools, I don't really need one in the shop. 

ohsoloco

I use an older Dewalt RAS all the time.  My dad had it ever since I can remember, so I'd say it's a 70's model.  When I got interested in woodworking, I spent my money on a table saw, bandsaw, and bigger jointer (dad already had a drill press, 6" jointer, RAS, and planer).  Just never got around to buying a miter saw, and now I have too many other things chipping away at my income.  I used to use it a lot for rough cutting long stock, but those long boards are a pain, and my cordless circular saw is so much easier. 

I still use the radial arm saw for cutting all of my finished pieces to length.  I often check the blade for being square to the table, as well as the fence.  I've had issues in the past with the yoke not wanting to stay square to the fence, but I think it's more of a flimsy mobile base issue.  When I get around to building my workshop, I'd really like to set the RAS along one wall, and build it into a set of cabinets w/ an extra long fence and work surface...saw Norm set one up like that on the New Yankee Workshop.

logwalker

Quote from: Larry on December 05, 2008, 07:14:00 AM
I would like one of these...iffen I was rich and had a huge shop with room to set it up properly.

Original Saw Company

And it is made right here in the good old USA.


Those Original saws are the old DeWalts. It was a design that dates back to the 1920's. That is identical to mine. It has a 8 roller bearing head that has virtually no discernible play.
They are all mounted on eccentric bolts for adjustment. Wolfe equipment buys the old ones and refurbishes them. "Original Saw" builds them new. They are out there. Look for the 2 large locking levers on top of the arm. Like I mentioned mine was in working condition with several metal cutting blades and tables for $500. Joe

Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Ironwood

If you cannot get them accurate, check the bearings AND for worn surfaces the bearings ride on (the old Dewalts had bearing to casting that wear out and CANNOT be fixed). All Deltas have guide rods that ARE replaceable. FYI.


           Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

scsmith42

Quote from: logwalker on December 04, 2008, 10:59:12 PM




  :) Here is my contribution to the Radial Arm Saw World. It has a full 8" depth of cut and about 24" crosscut. It swings a 22" blade and can rotate into a rip position. In a straight crosscut orientation they were made to swing up to a 46" blade for heavy timbers. The motor was slowed to 1800 rpm from 3600. I installed a hand crank on mine to bring out the head with control. It has a 7.5 hp motor. They are still made and cost about $10,000. I picked up mine from a steel fab shop for $500 with a huge in and out feed tables made of steel. Link to the Wolfe Machinery website:

http://www.wolfemachinery.com/index.htm

DanG Joe!  That's almost as big as the blade on my Peterson.  WOW - that would be a slick machine for a lot of timberframing work.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Ironwood

I dont have a picture, but my Northfield Uni-point throws a 20" at 10 hp. If you see a Uni-point out there look for the 10 HP Louis Allis motor (it was the top of the line), some times they sell cheap as people don't know what they are.

One other thing of note by brand RAS, before Walker Turner was swallowed by Delta, they made a slick RAS that had a special gear box that maxiumized the blade cutting depth (for instance 8" cut on a 10" blade), and had a special "override" feature that prevented gear damage if the blade jammed. These were made about 1945-1950. There was areason Delta bought them out,........ outstanding products. If you see any of them at auction dont hesistater to buy them. Including their radial drill press on the arm design as the RAS. GOOD STUFF.


Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

logwalker

Quote from: Ironwood on December 05, 2008, 05:56:23 PM
If you cannot get them accurate, check the bearings AND for worn surfaces the bearings ride on (the old Dewalts had bearing to casting that wear out and CANNOT be fixed). All Deltas have guide rods that ARE replaceable. FYI.


           Ironwood

I didn't think I would live long enough to correct the great Ironwwod on ol' arn but here I am. :D :D The  arm on those old DeWalts have enough meat to re-machine them .That is what Wolfe Machinery does. They then use new eccentrics with longer throws to fit the deeper grooves in the arm. Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Ironwood

Sorry, I meant by mere mortals (with hand tools and "parts").  :D. I can't imagin remachining in that smallish space. , anything is possible, depends on it's replacement value in the open market.

Respectfully corrected, humbly, Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

logwalker

Reid, of course it was only a misunderstanding on my part and requires no correction on yours.

So have you ever checked out the 8 bearing carriage on the big DeWalts? They are very robustly designed and can be made to last for a very long time. They have a provision for a crossfeed crank which lowers the pucker factor considerably when taking the full meal deal of 7 3/4". They even use a ring and pinion gear on the column with a long driveshaft to another ring & pinion attached to a degree wheel at the end of the arm. It is surprisingly accurate. But what is most impressive to me is the extreme rigidity of the arm and column. Massive cast iron castings bolted to a huge frame get the job done.

I guess I better sit down now.  ::)
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Larry

I had a friend that retired from the cabinet business.  He had a big Delta RAS with at least 24 inches of cross cut capacity...I know because he mounted a rock on the arbor, turned it sideways, and sharpened my 24" planer blades held in a jig with it.  Even though it was abused some, it was still in good condition and only went for something like $300 in his auction.  Nobody wanted it because the table was close to 4' wide and 6' long.  Would have dominated a small shop...but with sufficient space what a deal.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

MattJ

I picked up an old (1967) craftman RAS in great condition (had to, it was $40 and the money was burning in my pocket) and got that to silky smooth condition and it is a beast and has great power for crosscuts.  It is a recall saw though do to the lack of a good guard.  I am going to build one out of lexan.

A comment I would add is pay attention to the blade.  I have a milwaukee slider and a porter cable non-slider and both cut like machetes until I got rid of the stock blade.  You don't need to go crazy but you should be spending 30 or so bucks for a 10" and a bit more for 12" blades.  Also, a good measure of the potential accuracy of a slider is to press lightly on the side of the motor at full extension an look for lateral deflection.  Some flex like crazy.

For what it is worth I used my neighbors 12" dewalt slider to build a playhouse for my son and that saw was awesome and scary accurate.  The belt driven feature also gives you better clearance around the blade mount compared to a direct drive.

ARKANSAWYER


  I looked for years for a good used radial arm saw.  Got an old Craftsman with bearings.  It cuts very well.  I use it mostly for knotching out for making 4x4 mail box post.  I also like it for cutting jack rafters and long angle cutts on 2x8's.
  The problems most of the time is the stand and table for how good the cuts are.  Most are stamped steel with 1/4 carrage bolts holding them together.  When you pull the saw you rack the frame the table sits on and every thing goes out of adjustment.  Redrill the holes and use grade 8 5/16th bolts and washers and crank them down.  Make sure the table is bolted down well by useing fender washers to get more hold.
  I also have the DeWalt 12" compound miter saw and the slider.  Like the 12" saws better.  Would like one of those like Larry posted about.
ARKANSAWYER

D._Frederick

I bought a sears ras that was built during the fifties, it had to be re-aligned every time head changed from cross-cut to rip. The index head was off by 4-6 degrees and could not be adjusted, what a piece of junk!
I bought a 12 inch Rockwell/Delta, the one with a turret. Most everything that has to do with angles can be adjusted and they will repeat  the setting when going from rip to cross-cut.
I use it for dadoing half-lap and like a ras since the cut is on top and that you can see what you doing.
The guy I bought the Craftman from sold it, because he cut-off this thumb on this left hand.

Dave Shepard

We have a DeWalt DW708 at work that gets used everyday and I like it. We also have a Bosch 5412 in the cabinet shop, quieter and smoother. If I had the money, I'd have a Festool Kapex, which is a very interesting interpretation of a compound miter saw.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

LeeB

Interesting yes. $2G worth, not to me.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Dave Shepard

$1300. ;) If I was doing high end work, I'd certainly try to own one.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

LeeB

OK. The article I read in one of the woodworking mags quoted around $2000. Still too rich for my blood.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Lud

Bought my Craftsman RAS about 30 years ago as a young fella.  Still use it when it's the right saw for the job.  Had a few scares along the way.  I was gang cutting some 1" sticks and the saw grabbed the sticks and  rolled/smacked my thumb real hard.  Taught me a lesson!

Learning to be careful,  asking yourself every time, "Hmmm, what could go wrong here?"  -  priceless.
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

woodhick

I have a very nice Wolfe rebuilt saw for sale down in the commerce section.
Woodmizer LT40 Super 42hp Kubota, and more heavy iron woodworking equipment than I have room for.

logwalker

Woodhicks saw is very nice at a good price. If it was out here I would consider adding to my cut-off line. Yup, Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Dave Shepard

Quote from: LeeB on December 17, 2008, 12:10:32 AM
OK. The article I read in one of the woodworking mags quoted around $2000. Still too rich for my blood.

Perhaps that was with the table and dust collection?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

hackberry jake

Quote from: Ironwood on December 04, 2008, 11:19:35 PM
One I forgot to mention is the Monarch or later Northfield "Uni-point", they are superheavy duty miterbox "like" saws up to 20" blades. The overall design resembles what was the first 9" miterbox by Delta, the Unipoint predates it, but the 9" miterbox was the first step into a benchtop unit that we all know today as sliding miters. I have had several of the 9" versions. The Unipoint swivels left right AND the whole head assembly can then throw (lay over) left or right. WAAY cool for unique uses.

      Ironwood

I'll be restoring one of these in the coming months. She's pretty rough right now, but appears to be all intact.

 
it looks to me like a 20" radial arm saw and a modern sliding miter saw had a baby.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Just Me

I run an OMGA RM700. It replaced a 16"turret model Delta. Cuts 28" and is accurate enough for cabinet work. Italian. I like it. Good 8 bearing head design that is totally rebuildable in a couple of hours. Stainless running surfaces for the bearings that can be bolted on if they ever wear, and the eight bearing in a cross pattern are just standard bearings.

I needed something in the line with over 26" crosscut capabilities and it paid for itself in one job I did for a hospital. I would not have bought it otherwise, but it is a good accurate saw. They occasionally come up for auction and sell around $1000, and at that price they would be a good buy. It is much more accurate than the Delta it replaced.

Larry

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