T & G flooring

crtreedude · February 16, 2007, 07:58:23 AM

Hi all, I just bought a whack of tamarindo (harder than oak) 1x6x 3 varas (a varas is 33 inches long) Wonderful stuff and it needs to be turned into tongue and grove flooring. The wood is green and since it is going to be used in a home that is in the tropics - it doesn't need to get much drier than air dry hear - especially since now is the dry season.

The Questions:

1. Is it better to plan before or after it is dry? I am thinking after because then it will remove any defects that appear during drying - but the locals say it will be too hard. I don't think so because we have a 15" Jet planner with a helix head. What do you think?

2. I am planning on purchasing a shaper with the right head to make the T & G - what do you think? We have a very powerful table saw - 3 HP Jet - and I have heard you can use that with a dado. Any experience of which would be better? I will have to buy a shaper some day anyway soon for making moldings for our home.

3. If we buy the shaper, is 3 HP enough?

4. What does everyone think of the shaper from Grizzley tools? Any other recommendations. Grizzley ships here so I am leaning toward them.

Any other questions I should have asked? ;)

flip · February 16, 2007, 08:33:01 AM

I have the Griz 3hp shaper and bought their T&G cutter and it works great, plenty of power. The cutter set is C2307 and it cuts 5/8-3/4. I have ran other router bits and cutters on this thing and have not found it to bog on anything yet.

crtreedude · February 16, 2007, 08:41:11 AM

Thanks Flip - just the kind of feedback I was looking for. Do you run dry wood or green?

metalspinner · February 16, 2007, 09:05:20 AM

Quotebut the locals say it will be too hard. I don't think so because we have a 15" Jet planner with a helix head. What do you think?

Can you locate some boards that have been drying for a while? That will be a good test. You will need to T&G it after it's dry anyway, so it's better to know what to expect. Does this wood have dulling effect on the knives more so than your other woods (from silica or such)?

Do you have power feeder's for your shaper and table saw? It sounds like that would be a big help.

ronwood · February 16, 2007, 09:18:52 AM

I have the grizzly 3 hp shaper for nearly 10 years. Works fine. I power feed might be a good thing to get if you are doing a lot of flooring. I just got a Powermatic 3 phase that I need to hook up. I got some material that I need to T&G.

Ron

crtreedude · February 16, 2007, 09:24:04 AM

Nothing in the wood that will dull the blades. I have some corteza that is even harder and is dry - I will give that a try. Good idea.

I bet there isn't an issue - the helix works very well indeed. It will even cut knots without pullouts.

Larry · February 16, 2007, 09:57:24 AM

The shaper is the minimum to make high quality flooring. You cannot get "real" T&G flooring cutters for either the table saw or the router and there are other problems with them.

I did a little tutorial here for "V" panel T&G cedar but it's the same method for flooring.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=20093.0

I run the same Grizzly cutters as flip with excellent results.

No idea how to run green wood as that is something I have never attempted.

TexasTimbers · February 16, 2007, 10:32:47 AM

I'm glad I didn't know you couldn't get "real" T&G flooring with a router table, because the considerable amount of flooring I have produced on my router table that "looks" real would not have ever been made.

No question but that the shaper is the way to go though. I just hate for anyone who has a router table to think they can't produce flooring and would give up before they try, because they can't afford a shaper and have been told they can't buy a T & G bit set. I don't understand that statement.
I know these cutters won't produce rounded tongues but I have never had a problem with using Eagle's T&G set making flooring with little to no tear out.

I do want to get another shaper in lieu of my router table soon, and I am not suggesting the RT can compete with the shaper iin most categories. But for someone on a budget who wants to make flooriing on it, the RT will do just fine. I can vouch for this.

HERE is the bit set I have used. I went through 3 sets in the summer of 93 or 94. hand fed using a fence and had very little tearout. I realize it probably isn't the same manufacturer as back then but there are tons of manufactureres of T&G sets.

crtreedude · February 16, 2007, 10:57:36 AM

Kevjay,

Isn't it amazing what we accomplish when we don't know any better. I will go ahead and get the shaper because of the amount I need to make AND I have to make a bunch of moldings too for the house we are building, and picture frames for a client, and moldings for another client, etc.

So, as you can see - I can justify it. (and my wife agrees! :D )

TexasTimbers · February 16, 2007, 11:13:33 AM

Shaper is definately the way to go when you can!

crtreedude · February 16, 2007, 11:35:00 AM

Yep - bigger is better if you can get it by the CF0. ;)

Tom · February 16, 2007, 12:04:17 PM

Don't you just love it when you can justify a tool?

I have to buy a lot of my stuff just 'cause I want it. Then I need to find a job for it. :-\

The shaper is made to do what you want to do and your only problem may be speed when you get into a production atmosphere.

To insure that you come out of this with all of your fingers, you might look into a feeder. Grizzly makes a couple of them too.

Having a lot of flooring to do might lead to the operator getting complacent and doing something where he gets hurt. A feeder will help to resolve that problem and speed up the process too. It can be used on the shaper, joiner or table saw to make life a lot easier.

crtreedude · February 16, 2007, 12:37:42 PM

Yes, I am definitely thinking about a feeder.

As long as it doesn't like Grits - I am okay with it.

crtreedude · February 16, 2007, 12:40:06 PM

I wouldn't want it to go feeding me grits or anything!

Dan_Shade · February 16, 2007, 12:47:08 PM

I think larry was refering to the Bit set, not as to whether or not you could make it work....

how many square feet are you doing?

crtreedude · February 16, 2007, 12:48:16 PM

About 1,000 this time, but it is a frequent request.

flip · February 16, 2007, 01:23:56 PM

CR, I have run both dry and green just to experiment and saw little difference if any when running, you MUST have a good dust collector or blower to get the chips away, otherwise there will be a big mess in a hurry.

Dana · February 16, 2007, 01:31:50 PM

Quote from Tom "Don't you just love it when you can justify a tool?"

Tom, you just might be able to use that logic to start the search for a new mill. :D

Max sawdust · February 17, 2007, 04:43:47 AM

Thanks for the good reading everyone. Larry, thanks for the link to your previous tutorial. I need a power feeder ;D

I did considerable research on finding a router bit set appropriate for t&g flooring. I ended up with a set from Infinity tools in Florida. Cuts a v groove on one side so you could use it for paneling too. What seems to me missing on most router bit sets is the needed gap or relief between the tung and the groove.

I am sure the day I need to run more than a 1000' of floor I will be ordering that shaper 8)
max

MemphisLogger · February 17, 2007, 12:22:42 PM

Oh boy, I didn't know you couldn't make "real" hardwood flooring with a router table either :-[

I've run about 1600 sq ft of what looks pretty close to "real" random width Walnut flooring with a Woodline One Piece T&G bit on my 3 1/4 hp table and been happy. I really like the way the bit cuts a rounded toungue as well as a nail groove.

Brian_Rhoad · February 17, 2007, 12:59:35 PM

Grizzly sells cutters for flooring.Cutter Cutter

beenthere · February 17, 2007, 02:38:10 PM

A lot of ways to skin a cat, and flooring is probably the same........a lot of ways (the degree of screaming and hollering varies, as does the degree of pleasure

). And I'm sure Larry and others will be glad to let anyone learn those ways, as want to, on their own. But Larry used the adjective "real" flooring, and I think he knows from what he speaks.

I'd say 'real' flooring is to the industry standards of dimension, tolerances, tongue and groove profile, back relief, etc.

Most will accept their individual efforts to make their flooring, and enjoy the flooring they make with lesser expense in tools and effort expended. And I think they can be real proud of those efforts. Probably not the 'real' flooring that Larry spoke of, but it does lay on their floor and looks great, so how much more 'real' does one want. Probably the term 'custom' made would be descriptive.

crtreedude · February 19, 2007, 08:08:06 AM

As you say, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I would be tempted to use the router if it was for me and I wasn't planning on doing more. However, I regularly have people request flooring and we are in the middle of building our own home, which means moldings galore.

The order WAS 2,000 dollars or so - until the CFO saw all the possible molding styles - I think it is closer to 5,000 now.

Not that I am complaining, mind you...

scsmith42 · February 19, 2007, 12:06:13 PM

I also have the 3hp Grizzly shaper with a power feeder and Grizzly cutters - works fine for my needs. If I had it to do over again I'd get the 5HP model though, as it can handle deeper cuts and faster feed speeds.

A power feeder is a MUST - otherwise it's just about impossible to get nice, consistent cuts when shaping longer pieces. Try to get a variable speed model with a wide range of speeds - especially slow ones.

Also, consider getting the router bit adaptor for the shaper, as this gives you more flexibility.

Scott