Inserted saw teeth. Not what they used to be...

[Jeff]

Without naming the name of the company,( pay no attention to the BIG S  ;))

I am getting pretty perturbed with the quality control on the sawteeth lately. If you know what your looking at here you can see the problem. I have been getting those fat ones mixed in the boxes quite regularly any more. Once in the saw they are hard to find by just eyeballing, and almost impossible to detect when you are installing the teeth. First board you cut thought you know one is in there.  TIME IS MONEY! IF YER WATCHING OUT THERE, QUIT PUTTING THE CHUBBYS IN MY SAWTEETH BOXES PLEASE!

You never used to see this from this company, never. Hoe brand yes, thier quality was always an issue for me in the 70's when I said never again.

[Fla._Deadheader]

I used to get one occasionally, that was never sharpened???

[Jeff]

Yep, with Hoes I did all the time. Some would not go in the saw, some would just fall in because they were under sized.

I think Hoe brand was absorbed by another company, maybe this one? Maybe thats the problem!

[Brian_Bailey]

Jeff,  Couldn't you make a no - go gauge to check the size of the tooth before you put it in the saw ?  

[Frank_Pender]

Jeff, you are correct on the absorbtion idea.   The brand you are speaking of is what I use in my mills now.   I'll bet you are getting the teeth for my saw in your box. ;D

[Buzz-sawyer]

Hey Jeff I bought a box of  IKS at the St Charles trade show they seemed like good bits uniform and tight....every use the Canadians>
Don

[Ron Wenrich]

IKS bought out Hoe.  I use IKS chrome on the edger.  Of the brand S, I think I've found one 3/8" tooth in a box in the past 20 years.  Must be your distribution area.  You could send an e-mail at their website.

[Jeff]

Jeff,  Couldn't you make a no - go guage to check the size of the tooth before you put it in the saw ?  

Yes, I could but like I said time is money, checking each tooth would take even more time then finding the occasional misfit does now. Its just agravating. Like Ron said, one in twenty years. Now I am getting one every 20 days. Something has happened to thier quality control.

[Paul_H]

I ordered a few sets of teeth for the MD back in early summer.Dan,who was doing the sawing then,told me to ask them to watch the mismatched teeth.He showed me a bunch of rejects from previous orders.They were off of center and left deep circle marks in the lumber.

When I phoned Mobile and ordered,the lady on the other end seemed a bit annoyed,and told me they have never had any complaints >:(

I kicked out 4 from the last set.I thought it was just us that had problems with teeth.

[VA-Sawyer]

The time would be in properly making the go-no go guage. It should only take a second or two at most, to actually check each tooth. With the right guage I'll bet I could check 40 teeth in under a minute. How many minutes did you lose because of the bad tooth ? How often do you change teeth?
For 1 bad tooth in 20 years, I wouldn't bother, but for 1 bad tooth every 20 days, I'd be making me a guage.
Rick

[Jeff]

There is no such thing in my book as go no go gauge. That would assume I would allow a tolerence. I dont. Those teeth should be exactly 9/32. Period.

If you are buying engine bearings or piston rings do you expect to fine one that is off? No. These are machined cutting bits. They are priced so. They should have a guy standing around with a go-no-go gauge, not me.  

[Brian_Bailey]

Heck Jeff,  You should have enough time while sitting in that comfy booth to check 4 or 5 bits while you wait for the log to go past the saw and have to set for the next cut :D :D.

[Jeff]

I'm da sawyer, having said that and establishing my baronial, brilliant, eminent, exalted, glorious, grand, grandiose, high-minded, high-ranking, highfalutin', honorable, imposing, impressive, kingly, lofty, lordly, magnificent, majestic, monumental, noble, pompous, princely, regal, resplendent, stately, superb, venerable status, I dont do winders and I don't go-no-go sawteeth. ;D

[Brian_Bailey]

Hey Jeff ?  Ya ever think abouts gettin into politicking, dems some mighty fine words spoken thar  :D :D

[Paul_H]

having said that and establishing my baronial, brilliant, eminent, exalted, glorious, grand, grandiose, high-minded, high-ranking, highfalutin', honorable, imposing, impressive, kingly, lofty, lordly, magnificent, majestic, monumental, noble

Jeff says all those nice things about Noble,but dresses the poor guy up as a Turkey :

[Jeff]

You caught that eh?

[Ron Wenrich]

Off center teeth that make a mark can be found with little difficulty, if you use a spider guage.  That checks the side clearance and tells you how far to side dress the tooth so it doesn't leave a mark.

Spider gauge

Top view



Side view



Another way I've used to find the offending tooth is to take a flat file and lay across 3 teeth corners.  When you get a high one in the center, it will rock.  Then, side dress to make it even with the others.  

I haven't seen these problems with teeth.  I have had problems where the teeth were too hard and it tore up my file.  I've had a few that may have been off center, but not enough to cause a problem.  Right now I'm running longs, so I don't know if that makes any difference.

When you're talking to factory reps, get batch numbers on the end of the box.  I usually take it up with my saw doc.  He ususally can come up with a reason and a solution.  He will drop a supplier if there are too many complaints.  His quantity of sales is a lot higher than mine.

A lot of problems can come from bent sockets, but I've even been able to overcome those using the above methods.

[Corley5]

Didn't S and IKS merge?  I thought I read somewhere that they had.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Thanks for the info & pics on the Spider Gauge.

 :P    I learned something, there.   :P

Of course, we also learned to call a sawyer who sits on his throne in a booth too long . . .
   His Impudentum Impotentatatum Rex !   [/size]
                    :D :D :D :D
Phil L.

[Jeff]

Don't worry there Phil, I used to and still could do anything at the mill. Including stack lumber. I earned my right to do nothing but saw, plus they dont pay me sawyers wages to do anything but saw. ;D

[dail_h]

   Jef , I know this is causing you a lot of trouble,anything that ain't right drives a good sawyer nuts,not that I'm a good sawyerbut you might try explaining that it's your new feedrate monitor. I'd complain to my supplier,if that didn't help,i'd find a new supplierf

[Jeff]

I wonder sometimes if the teeth are repackaged by a distributer. It makes sense that could be the root of my problem. We had to go to a new saw shop because the one that had been around since I was a newbie closed due to retirement of the owner. Two of his past employee's started shops. Willard recomended one, but ray chose the other since he was closer, and had added value. He picked up and delivers.

I found out the hard way that he knows NOTHING about pounding saws. For the first time in 25 years I had to have saws worked on by someone other then Willard LaFave. I had not even had a saw to the shop in 3 years. Due to another guy sawing now and screwing crap up we have had to send out all 3 of my saws. They came back worse then worthless. I was able to make them saw but only with "tricks". We sent one out a month or so a go to the recommended guy and found out that the saw was tentioned only by tightening the rim and that it was hammered for 125 RPM more then I am running.  This latest guy knows what he was doing. I could tell as soon as I hung it by the feel that it was right. Dont ask me how I know, but you just know, by deflection and things like that. You lean against saws for 25 years you get pretty intimate to thier characteristics.

When the saws came back from the first guy, I didnt even think they were ours. They had been ground on and beat on and wire wheeled to such an extent that I could not tell one from the other any longer. They used to be like familiar faces. I didnt have them named or anything, but I knew them well. :D

Anyways, we are still getting our bits from the first guy. As [I have typed a profane word that is automatically changed by the forum censored words program I should know better and could be banned for doing it] as his saw tuning talents are maybe he is mixing the bits.

OH! Another thing that guy screwed up were our carbide tipped gangsaw blades. We sent them out to be retipped. Keeping in mind that we have a duel arbor gang saw, Top and bottom, and the top set of blades mount opposite direction of bottom because of rotation, ya know what you get when the retips are silver soldered on just off center? :-/ >:(

[VA-Sawyer]

If you are buying engine bearings or piston rings do you expect to fine one that is off? No. These are machined cutting bits. They are priced so. They should have a guy standing around with a go-no-go gauge, not me.  

Jeff,

I have overhauled over a hundred aircraft engines in my time. A set of rod and main bearings can cost over $500.00 for an engine. I checked and documented the clearance on each and every journal I ever put a bearing on. At those prices, and with FAA quality controls, you would expect them to all be perfect. Guess what !! I have probably come across a half dozen or so that were not sized as marked. It's just a question of " do you spend your time checking the parts first, or straightening up the mess later? ".  
I don't like it either, and I agree that it has gotten worse. Yesterday I bought three lights to mount on my mill for evening sawing. Only one of the three was complete. One was missing a bolt for the mounting clamp, and the other was missing the entire clamp.  >:(  The store is 35 miles away. I'm mad as hell about it, but the truth is, if I had spent two minutes checking them before leaving the parking lot, I wouldn't be looking at losing two hours to drive back down there tomorrow. :
( Probably, more than two hours will be lost because of the extra bad traffic for the "Day after Thanksgiving shoppers" )
Rick

[Fla._Deadheader]

Buying has gotten so bad down here, that, we will NOT even take an item to the counter until we have opened the box and checked out each part. Sometimes an attendant will get snotty, but, we just tell 'em, go get the manager. Have only been told to never do that again, but, I'm gettin hard of heerin.  ???  Wal Mart has caused this entire fiasco, by, letting folks return ANYTHING, no questions asked.
  Electrical parts, like Dimmer switches are about the worst.
  The Hebrew persuasion, will take back parts that are a year old, and they KNOW the part has lasted it's lifetime, and exchange it. The old part will end up back on the shelf, and someone will haul it home and it won't work.
  When I return a damaged part, I further damage it right in front of the cashier.  I HATE getting returned crap in a new box >:( >:(   Wife says I am getting old and cranky : :

[D._Frederick]

Fla._,
Your lucky that they will take electrical parts back, lot of places here will not allow returns or exchange of any type of electrical componeonts.. They have gotten burned by too many dishonest people. I never take home anything that has been open and resealed!