Engine ID Please

CabinCreations · March 30, 2018, 09:00:30 AM

Hey all,

I just purchased a home with a mill on it I am beginning to fix up. The mill has been sitting for a long time (last ran ~20 years ago) but the whole mill is under roof and from what I have seen is in good condition.

My (first) problem is the existing engine that ran the 60" circular saw - I have not been able to identify it. As you can see from the photos, I have not put much time into cleaning it up yet. I believe that it may be too far gone but until I can ID it, I can't bring myself to scrap it. Can anyone take a look at it and help lead me in the right direction?

Thanks

sealark37 · March 30, 2018, 09:06:15 AM

Your engine appears to be a Chrysler small block from the early sixties. Even if it will run and saw, it will break you on fuel expense. Regards, Clark

petefrom bearswamp · March 30, 2018, 09:13:21 AM

I agree.
It looks like an older OHV VERY thirsty V8

CabinCreations · March 30, 2018, 09:48:03 AM

Thanks for a quick response guys. It sounds like a new engine is going to be the way to go. Any suggestions on something to run a 60" blade?

Kbeitz · March 30, 2018, 09:53:58 AM

Everyone's going to say diesel. I like the kubota engines. They can be found in refer units.

ladylake · March 30, 2018, 10:25:23 AM

May as well have enough power, maybe around a 100 hp diesel out of a old combine or a used truck engine like a DT 466 international or a 5.9 cummins. Should be able to find those for a good price. Steve

jason.weir · March 30, 2018, 10:46:35 AM

Totally agree that you will want 100+ diesel horsepower to run that 60" blade, probably approaching 150 if you're going to run anything else, sawdust blower, etc..

But I'll play devil's advocate here and say if your existing engine can be made to run easy and cheap enough than that's where I would start.

If the rest of the mill is in working order get it up and running as it sits, saw for a bit and then make changes.

Hate to spend $$$ on a new engine only to find out the rest of the mill needs lots of work too..

CabinCreations · March 30, 2018, 01:07:08 PM

I appreciate the input. I'll shop around for a new engine as I look into what it would take to get the existing one running. Maybe I can get her running without to much cost - things were made better in the 60s anyway.

moodnacreek · March 30, 2018, 07:07:46 PM

If it's not seized up get it running but I wouldn't be too concerned with the engine as older truck diesels are a dime a dozen. The sawmill mandrel is watts important and often a big problem on old mills.

Oliver05262 · March 30, 2018, 08:58:28 PM

I'll bet that as you get into fixing or replacing that engine, you'll find that is an International Harvester. I'd love to have heard that unit running a sawmill!

moodnacreek · March 30, 2018, 09:37:17 PM

If that's an IH it's a big block like a 401 or larger. I think all 549's had 4 bbl. carbs. The 2 water outlets are the clue. Kbeitz, a reefer kabota would be way too small for a circle saw mill.

Gearbox · March 30, 2018, 09:43:47 PM

The twin upper hoses have got me lost . IH had a single hose . First guess would be a 534 Ford out of a 60 s vintage . You should be able to saw 1000 feet on 5 gallon of gas if you have a crew so there is no idle time . The old rule thousand feet per man in an 8 hour day and 5 gal of fuel per thousand .

jason.weir · March 30, 2018, 09:45:31 PM

Quote from: Oliver05262 on March 30, 2018, 08:58:28 PM
I'll bet that as you get into fixing or replacing that engine, you'll find that is an International Harvester. I'd love to have heard that unit running a sawmill!

I was gonna say it's IH as well - mostly due to the oil bath air cleaner and air brake compressor.. Most likely came out of a heavy truck. But the dual upper radiator hoses has me thinking otherwise - the IH 304,345 & 392s I've seen are single upper hoses.

jason.weir · March 30, 2018, 10:12:28 PM

can't see where the distributor is mounted, its in the front but can't tell if it's top mounted or off the timing cover.

It also looks like there is some words on the intake manifold, might be a timing order.

Some more things that are different - the rear coolant crossover tube & the flat spots on the exhaust manifolds - certainly unique enough that we should be able to identify it.

@CabinCreations - some bigger pictures might help

Wayniac · March 31, 2018, 07:16:37 AM

I think its a 549 IH I drove one in a semi years ago very good engine but they do love there gas

jason.weir · March 31, 2018, 08:52:52 AM

Quote from: Wayniac on March 31, 2018, 07:16:37 AM
I think its a 549 IH I drove one in a semi years ago very good engine but they do love there gas

I think we have a winner

International Pincor C549 - SmokStak
http://www.2040-parts.com/international-549-engine-i1799632
https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/109320-help-with-tuenup-parts-for-a-1959-international-vco-fire-engine-w-a-549-v-8

looks like there should be a data plate on the left hand side, on the back where the bell-housing would attach

You certainly will have enough power if you can lug gasoline to it fast enough

International V8 Info. | BinderPlanet

257 hp @ 3400
505 ft\lbs @ 2000

If your gearing is right, you can run it all day long @ 1500 rpm and have power to spare - might not be too bad on gas @ 1500..

petefrom bearswamp · March 31, 2018, 09:38:07 AM

Built better in the 60s?
You gotta be kidding right?

moodnacreek · March 31, 2018, 07:37:45 PM

So a 549 it is. That mill better be in good shape to utilize all that power. Gotta keep the rpm down, right at the maximum torque.

CabinCreations · April 03, 2018, 10:23:43 AM

It looks to me like the IH 549 is a match. I will start digging into it and see if restoring it is worth it or even possible. I'm not fond that it such a gas hog, but the first thing I want is to get the mill running - I'll swap engines as necessary after that.

If anyone has any advice on a first step for an engine that has been sitting for 20+ years, please don't hesitate to chime in again. I have never restored anything in this rough of shape. If new pictures would be of any help, I will certainly provide them. Just let me know.

Thanks again for all the help. You guys are awesome.

BigZ La · April 03, 2018, 10:52:45 AM

For a gas engine that has been idle for that long you first need to pull all the plugs and shoot penetrant in all the cylinders. I would make a mixture of acetone and atf and fill the cylinders as much as possible. Loosely install the plugs and repeat daily for a few days, I personally would do it a week. After about the fourth day I would try to turn the engine over by hand using a socket and pull bar on the nut to the harmonic balancer or on the output of the trans. Output of the trans would probably be easier. You just want to get it to move, even if it's only a few thousandths. If you get it to move any generally you can keep increasing until it turns over. I don't have much hope for gas engines sitting that long under those conditions but you never know.

Do a cost estimate first on how much it's going to cost to get it running even if you get it unstuck. You may be surprised and be better off just searching out another engine.

moodnacreek · April 03, 2018, 12:42:25 PM

Take this good advise and fill those cylinders. If you can get to turn you are off to a good start. An engine must have compression, spark, fuel, timing, oil pressure, and cooling. Expect stuck valves and carburetor trouble. Also the points will be corroded. All battery connections must be cleaned. If that monster turns and has compression, an old school mechanic will get it running in a few hours.

jason.weir · April 03, 2018, 01:00:50 PM

As others have said - if it will turn over, it will most likely run. Since it's been under cover, how well it runs has less to do with the time it's been sitting and more to do with the condition it was in when it last ran.

I'd see if it will turn over with a wrench on the balancer bolt (lower pulley). With the plugs out it should turn over without much effort. Oil\penetrant in each cylinder is always a good idea and makes for a good smoke show on the first start..

Next hopefully it's still full of oil and coolant, if so that's another good sign.

I'd plan on rebuilding (or replacing) the carburetor and replacing the fuel pump along with plugs, wires, cap, rotor, points & condenser

Drain & flush the fuel, oil & coolant systems, fill her up, give it a fresh battery and have a go.

Another good idea is before you try to start it for the first time, crank it over for 30 seconds or so (with the plugs out) to get the oil pump primed and pushing oil everywhere it needs to be. If you do this 3-4 times allowing the starter to rest in between, you'll give the thing a fighting chance at surviving..

Like moodnacreek said an old school mechanic would have it running in short order - you might look for such a person (think old farmer) in your area for some assistance.

Wish I was closer - this kind of project is right up my alley...

edit: The other option is to skip all that and put the ether to it and have at it. These old engines are much less picky then the new stuff. Many an old tractor has been started after sitting in a field forgotten for years.

CabinCreations · April 04, 2018, 03:01:04 PM

I appreciate the advice. Once I get the engine cleaned up some and looked over a little closer, I will get those plugs out and fill the cylinders as you all have suggested.

@BigZ - Thank you for chiming in. I'll take that advice and do a cost estimate as soon as I can further assess the engine.

@moodnacreek & @jason.weir - If I can get it turning over I'll reach out to local guys to see if they will take a look.

My hopes are high I can get it going now. I just want to hear it run!

mad murdock · April 09, 2018, 09:14:10 AM

You can buy am endoscope online that will connect to your phone or tablet,that will allow you to look inside each cylinder. For less than 50 bucks, it is money well spent. Let's you really assess things without tearing into them a bunch. Can be a labor saver. Good luck on the restore. Those binders were torquey engines and would run forever.

CabinCreations · April 09, 2018, 01:21:58 PM

Thanks, @mad murdock - I may have to look into that, although the engine seems like it wants to turn over. I am giving the cylinders a few more days in the soak before I try to turn it over completely by hand.

A new question though, the engine was ran on natural gas. Is there anything I should be on the lookout for when dealing with something like that? I feel that this may complicate things further? Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks