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Selling Logs Vs. Selling Lumber

Started by AdamChrap, January 18, 2006, 04:05:00 PM

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AdamChrap

My father and I have been doing selective logging on our farm for years now but have recently acquired a mill for cutting our own lumber. My question is what is going price for cherry lumber in the northeast (I live in Ohio)? We are trying to figure out how much more we could make by cutting it ourselves vs. selling the whole logs. We have lots and lots of cherry and a good amount of black walnut. We went on a walkthrough the farm yesterday and marked 106 trees we are taking out, I'd say %90 Cherry %10 Black Walnut. These are all trees over 15"-16" leaving many many more for later years. Any help would be great!
When life gives you lemons........ Wait life gave me cherry, Lots of cherry!

ronwood

AdamChrap

I would sell any veneer logs that you have. The others you can cut. How much work do you want to do. You can sell green or kiln dried.  I am quartersawng some white oak logs for a gentleman and selling the luber as log run and green for $1.50 ft. Logs that I am cutting might bring 60 cents bd. ft at the mill.

What type of mill will make a difference. Bandmills generally have a better recovery but are slower. Big circle mills are much faster but have a lower recover on most logs.

Myself I would think that you can make more if you have a way to sell the lumber.

Welcome to the forum
Ron

Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Ron Wenrich

That's a hard question to answer.  For starters, you can't even come close to cutting any veneer quality into lumber.  Then, you have the problem of marketing lumber.  Are you talking retail market or wholesale market?

I don't follow the cherry market very close.  The reason is that any cherry that comes into the log yard gets sold to someone else.  For the price of the logs, we feel that we are better served to sell them than to fish around for a market.  Wholesale prices might range anywhere from 28 cents to $2.40/bf depending on grade.  Grade yield is so important to log value.  

Wholesale markets offer a quicker turnaround in your money, but it often demands higher volumes.  High production mills means a lower production cost.  It will be very hard to compete against those mills, and they control the market price.

If your logs are on the small side, then you end up with too much sapwood.  Something that a lot of people don't like, including large volume buyers.  The same problems can arise in walnut.

You can shoot for the retail markets.  But, you will have to sit on your inventory for quite some time.  There will be more degrade, more time spent with customers, and money will be tied up in unsold stock.  You may also have to plane the wood.  But, the sale price is much higher, and can be very rewarding.

You'll have to factor in all of these variables to come up with a scenario of selling logs or selling lumber.  There is always value added as you go through each step.  Whether it makes enough money to be worthwhile is up to the individual.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

BBTom

I have been getting anywhere from .95 to 1.25 / bdft  as an average for the load on 5/4 cherry lumber.  I should qualify that I am sawing mostly top logs that have sat for a year.  With fresh logs I could stay near the top of the range or better.  

The Ohio brokers are having a wonderful time sticking it to the small sawmills.  Some major brokers are still not taking anything at all from us. They are getting enough from the larger mills (as in truckloads per day).  Other brokers or concentration yards are just grading extremely tight.

If you have any decent log buyers, you may be ahead to sell the logs, but if they have all gotten together and decided not to pay anything, then sawing your own for a while is a good way to get them to up the bid on the log piles .

Good luck with whatever you decide.
2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

AdamChrap

If I had to plain it that would be ok, we have a circular mill and also bought a big planner from the guy. It was a deal it will take like a 20" board if I remember right. Got it for $300 and have found comparable items on the net for well over $1000. Right now cherry is very high here, I can get $1 bdft for cherry logs if they are anything but junk. I sell to a local Amish guy that has a sawmill, he is only about 1.5 miles from me so that is real nice. The only real problem I am running into is selling my veneer, I have a few nice logs that will go for veneer (cherry and black walnut) but the local guys does not cut veneer. So he buys it off me then resells it, that cuts deep into my profit. Just some thoughts.
When life gives you lemons........ Wait life gave me cherry, Lots of cherry!

WH_Conley

What part of Ohio are you in? If close to Kentucky I might be able to point you in a couple of directions, as long as the trucking isn't too much.
Bill

Ron Wenrich

Your state forestry bureau should have a list of veneer buyers.  Some of those veneer buyers also buy export logs.  Cherry is pretty high on their list.  Also, check adjoining states.  Most of our veneer buyers aren't local.

We've been using a circle mill to cut the middle and low end logs for many years.  We veneer out the best logs, and have also sold prime sawlogs.  Then we cut the stuff that doesn't sell so well.  Started that in 1982 and developed a good business.

Don't overlook the tie markets for lowgrade material.  Cut that out of your woodlot and run it through your mill. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Warren

Adam,

I am about 40 miles south of Cincinnati.  My first official saw job netted 450 BF of cherry I cut on shares.  It sat in the barn about 10 months air drying.  Last fall I sold the whole lot to a cabinet guy from north of Cincincinnati for $1.50 / bf.  He never batted an eye.

Warren
LT40SHD42, Case 1845C,  Baker Edger ...  And still not near enough time in the day ...

SPIKER

hey gents;

by the phone number listed on the post I would say one of you is pretty close to me, I've got a placve in JEROMESVILLE ohio, (near mansifeld & wooster.   I'm kinds of looking for info on and startingto look at buying my own mill.  not knowing much I would like to take a look see at what people have and are using and try & gain some knolage.

anyone willing to help out a newbiue?

I've think borman hardwoods in wooster ohio, may buy veneer logs?  seems to be what they have laying out there but I have not spoken to them.  it is a commercial buisness on corner of SR 302 and 539 & fry road.  west of wooster by a mile or so...   it would be a 330 number for area code.

I could look for a good number for them in the book if you wish.



mark M
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

AdamChrap

I am just south of wooster, in holmesville. Amish country!
When life gives you lemons........ Wait life gave me cherry, Lots of cherry!

crtreedude

Just my dos colones on this.

The more middlemen you can cut out, the better - if you can. The issue of course is that you have to get the pump going. People want to buy from someone they know and trust, after they start buying, they often want to keep buying.

It just depends as people are saying. If you have a local market who will buy from you - sell retail if you have the time and need the money. (i.e. if you time isn't worth more than the increase in value)

So, how did I end up here anyway?

BBTom

Spiker,

I will be more than willing to tell you most of what I know.  ( some of what I know, I forgot).  I am just 4 miles up Pleasant Valley from Malabar Farm State Park.  I am milling almost every afternoon. ( trying to get sap lines ready for syrup season in the mornings).  Sometimes work in the evening too. Give me a holler 419-565-1981 cell  works most of the time around here.

Tom
2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

SPIKER

BBTOM:

thanks, I go past there pretty close all week long, I work @ mansfielld plumbing in perrysville, and commute from mansfield much of the week down 39.

I sent you a PM with info.  now off checking you're site out ;)

thanks mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

thecfarm

AdamChrap,are you in Holmes County? We went to Amish country there 3-4 years ago.This would be around Sugar Creek.Forgot the other towns,was a 18 hour trip from here.Looks like alot like Maine in this area.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

AdamChrap

yes i am in holmes county, millersburg is about 20min west of sugarcreek and i am about 5min north of there.
When life gives you lemons........ Wait life gave me cherry, Lots of cherry!

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