Looking for first chainsaw

[John Mc]

There are lots of good YouTube videos on how to sharpen a chain. Unfortunately, there are also lots of bad ones - and despite their lack of knowledge, they still manage to convince some people that they know what they are doing. It can be hard to tell the good from the bad unless you already know what a good procedure looks like (and the comments are often no help, since you have the same mix of people commenting).

Someone here may be able to provide a link to a known good free YouTube video. I don't happen to have one handy. However, if you don't mind paying a few bucks, this one is excellent - it covers both of the sharpening guides shown above, as well as an intro to using a grinder:
   The Art and Science of Chainsaw Sharpening

[John Mc]

Not sure where you are located (when you get a chance, fill in your profile and let us know), but the following may help if you are looking for ethanol-free gas in the USA:
https://www.pure-gas.org/

E0 gas bought at the pump has longer shelf life than the more common E10 gas (10% ethanol). It does not have the shelf life of the canned pre-mix, but most prefer it to the ethanol blends.

[pgk1]

Albert,

Do you have any dealers around you? If you're new to saws, it would be good to have the support of a local shop for your new saw. They'll probably also have better prices on the 170 than you're getting on eBay. You'll want to aim for one that has a good service department, not just a Home Depot that sells them but can't work on them.

As for a saw, I love the ms170 and the ms180. My ms180 does a ton of work, I even have an 18" bar on it, and it is perfect to sit in the bed of the truck when clearing trails off road.

B.

What he said. Buy local so you have service after the sale and someone to show you the basic operation of the saw.
Pete

[albert001]

I'm located in the Northwest.
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Inside the tractor supply store there was a Skihl MS170 sitting on the shelf with other Skihl chainsaws with a price tag $179.95, when I went to pay for the MS170 plus two spare Stihl chains I was told the MS170 just went on sale for $159.95. So I save another $20.00.

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There is a local grocery only a few blocks away that sells ethanol free gas. I'm not really up on ethanol gas and gas engines. It's not suppose to be good for use with two cycle engines because of the oil and gas mixture.

From Google

Does ethanol hurt 2 cycle engines?

The 2 stroke oil remains bonded to the gasoline but not to ethanol. Thus, the ethanol and water part of the mixture contains no oil for engine lubrication. ... It is recommended that you replace gas in your fuel tank every 2-3 weeks to avoid alcohol and water related engine issues. Ethanol is also an excellent solvent.

Why is ethanol bad for small engines?

Water enters your fuel system in the air that enters the fuel tank as the gasoline is burned by the engine. ... Ethanol acts as a solvent in older engines and can dissolve old gum and varnish deposits from the gas tank and fuel lines. These deposits can then clog the very small orifices in the carburetor.
_____________________________

While looking for a chain sharpener I came across  a Harbor Freight electric chainsaw chain sharpener.  I read there can sometimes be difficulty tighten down turn plastic knobs  to maintain adjustable settings for the chain your sharpening.  One needs to be careful setting up and tightening as the knobs can potentially slip after tightening. Some people have modified by installing better knobs, nuts and washers used to maintain  adjustments. Once setup your suppose to be able to keep using the same settings on both sides of the chain, no need to remove and reverse the chain. One only needs to reset the degree angle to be the same for the opposite side of the chain.

[John Mc]

Personally, I prefer hand sharpening.

Many of the less expensive grinders are not rigid enough to hold the angles precisely. They can work if great care is used, but it takes a lot of attention to make them work right. In addition, with a bit of practice, you can do a better job hand sharpening than you can with even a very good grinder.

If your sharpening equipment is sitting at home in your workshop, there is much too much temptation to continue cutting with a dull chain. This is harder on you and harder on your equipment. (You can dodge this if you carry spare sharp chains with you and just swap them out, but even then a run of bad luck when cutting can leave you with only dull chains when you are out in the woods.)

Lastly, I've gotten to appreciate the short break involved with sharpening a chain. When I'm in the midst of cutting, I tend to focus on that and sometimes don't pay enough attention to how tired and thirsty I'm getting (both can be significant safety problems, as your muscles and brain don't work as well when you are tired or dehydrated). Sharpening a chain is an opportunity to slow down, get myself hydrated, and assess how I'm holding up.

[medved]

I personally would never go back to anything else for hand sharpening after using the 2-in-1 sharpener. It really is worth it's weight in dollar bills

Keep in mind depending on what you're working on or how good you've gotten with the saw, you may need to resharpen your chain in the field, or switch to a sharp chain. This can happen if the stuff you're cutting is dirty or like me you like to cut stones and dirt in the ground! To me it is always useful to be able to sharpen in the field for this reason.

The chain you have is a PMM chain, so it's a "PICCO" chain, and 3/8" P (not just 3/8") is what you're looking for.

[John Mc]

I personally would never go back to anything else for hand sharpening after using the 2-in-1 sharpener. It really is worth it's weight in dollar bills

If they ever figure out how to do a version that sets the raker height progressively, I would consider switching to it. For now, I'm sticking with one of the two hand sharpening methods I pictured in Reply #23.

[Allar]

Electric chain sharpener would be the easiest solution for you. Learning how to sharpen chainsaw by hand is a long and cruciating process. I personaly struggled with sharpening for years. You can't even imagine how stressful it can be.

But yeah with electric sharpener, you just need to have an extra chain or two with you.  Whenever one gets dull, you'll  swap it out.  And in the end of day, you'll sharpen em with electric sharpener.

[John Mc]

Electric chain sharpener would be the easiest solution for you. Learning how to sharpen chainsaw by hand is a long and cruciating process. I personaly struggled with sharpening for years. You can't even imagine how stressful it can be.

That has not been my experience. Yes, learning to sharpen completely free-hand, using just a file is a skill that can take some time to develop. Learning to use one of the guides mentioned above well enough to meet or beat the performance of a brand new chain is not hard at all - at least it was not for me, or the folks I regularly cut firewood with.

[lxskllr]

Depends on the user I suppose. I like doing stuff by hand, and have long struggled with gizmos, and "easy use" sharpeners(not talking saws only here). As long as the chain isn't rocked, and is kept sharp as opposed to waiting til the edge is toast, just about anyone can do a competent job by the time they get to the end of the first chain. It's just a matter of making what's already there better. A sharp file's essential though. It's hard to do a good job muscling a dull file through the teeth.

[medved]

I personally would never go back to anything else for hand sharpening after using the 2-in-1 sharpener. It really is worth it's weight in dollar bills

If they ever figure out how to do a version that sets the raker height progressively, I would consider switching to it. For now, I'm sticking with one of the two hand sharpening methods I pictured in Reply #23.

Totally agree on that, but I think it's the best they can do for the rakers with the "low tech" that it is.

[Greenerpastures]

My friend whose a disabled veteran from Desert Storm grew up in the woods and around chainsaws. He's going to show me how to use one when I clear some brush on his property.

My experience is mainly heavy equipment used in the shipyards as I was at one time a journey level shipfitter. No chainsaws, mostly bottle jacks, hammers, cranes,  torch and welding equipment, etc.  We worked from blueprints for commercial, Navy and Coast Guard vessels including the Polar Sea and Polar star. I use to work with and free hand cut 3" high 80 steel. Plus I worked in one yard where we built mainly commercial fishing boats.

I've built a few wooden boats, but haven't really done much wood cutting other than using a hand or bow saw and and large axe.

When I was a teenager years ago, I do remember cutting cord wood with my friend and his chainsaw, we would deliver cord wood either stack or unstacked.

I do have  ancestors who worked as loggers and logging mills but that was back in the 16 and 17 hundreds, long before I was born.

My friend who I later learned knows alot about chainsaws suggested we stop at a John Deere store.

Going into the store I looked at chainsaws on their shelves and saw a brand new  Stihl MS170 for $179.95 with one year warranty. While paying I was told it was on sale today for $159.95.

I'm uncertain why other places used, rebuilt and new are asking more.

Anyway the user manual shows not to use over 10 percent ethanol fuel and at least 89 octane?

Purchased a 1 gallon fuel tank at Home Depot for $15.00 which seems a bit high for a one gallon fuel tank. Plus some 2 cycle and chain oil. Also purchased two spare chains from John Deere.

Now that was a cheap enough purchase, for the price of two axe 's you have saved yourself a lot of hard work, cant really go wrong at that price, and its new, all the best with it, keep safe.

[realzed]

Do yourself a favour and buy the Stihl Ultra when you do get premix for your saw. Its the synthetic type that Stihl sells and contains stabilizer in it to help keep the fuel fresher and prevent fuel related problems. No substitute for always using fresh gas and oil mixtures mind you - but better oil and extra additives can't hurt either. IMHO

[btulloh]

I'd really rather have a file.

Glad you found a local deal. Good luck and stay safe. Sounds like you're no stranger to tools that can bite.

[albert001]

I found several other electric chainsaw chain electric sharpening tools, some similar to Harbor Freight while other more expensive may have more settings.

Better grinders such as from Oregon have adjustments for Vice Rotate Angle, Down Angle & Head Tilt Angle, usually come with a depth gauge and different type and size wheels.
Micro Chisel, Round Ground Chisel, Semi Chisel & Chamfer Chisel

The grinder works best when the grinding wheel is centered over the vise.
NOTE: You will need to re-center the grinding wheel as it wears. Periodically
check that the grinding wheel is centered and adjust as necessary.

Here is one that's less expensive than the Oregon for $86.99 with free shipping.

Sharpens chains from 1/4in. to 3/8in. pitch. 110V, 60 Hz motor operates at 3000 RPM. 230 Watt motor input power. It includes lamp and disc guards and two grinding discs at 1/8in., 3/16in.

	VEVOR
Sharpens chain pitch:	1/4" / .325" / 3/8" / .404"	MPN:	FDGIR0010
Noise level:	less than 85dB	Motor input power:	230W
Grinding wheels size:	5-1/2in Diameter	Maximum speed:	3000rpm

- grinder head angle,
- Cutter top-plate grind angle, vise-tilt angle.
- Cutting chain vice  assembly has a tilting feature, that is used to control the side plate hook angle on some chains. Use center mark for chains requiring 90°. Tilt visa to inward position for lefthand cutters.. Tilt vise to outward position for right hand cutters
- chain stop. Using the cutting chain stop centering knob. Center the chain stop behind the cutter.

There's a similar one by CO-Z for approx. the same price.

Similar specs as above ~$130.00 -   Timber Tuff CS-BWM Benchtop / Wall Mount Electric Chain Saw Chain Sharpener

Oregon has model 310-410 mini sharpener for around $80.00,

For around ~$140.00 ... Strongway Electric Chainsaw Sharpener — 110V, 1/4in. to 3/4in. Pitch, 3,400 RPM , 230 Watt, 110 Volt, 60 Hz motor operates at a maximum of 3400 RPM

Then there is one of a different design that looks interesting for only  ~$45.00 however I believe it only has two of the adjustments found with more expensive ones.

Timber Tuff CS-BMM Bench Mount Electric Chainsaw Chain Sharpener

• Motor: Series wound 230V, 50Hz; 110V, 60Hz
• Motor input power: 85 Watt
• Maximum speed: 5600 rpm
• Includes short circuit protection
• Includes one 3/16-Inch grinding wheel

3/16 inch wheel won't work with 3/8" pitch blades.

This one is designed differently than the others

There's others such as a Tecomec "Sharp Boy" Electric Chainsaw Chain Grinder Bench Mounted Replaces Oregon 310-120, same power as the Oregon 310-120 for $44.95 with shipping.

The SHARP BOY grinder has friendly operator's features:

 Easy to install and start
 Clamping vise ensures a professional grind.
 Same safety devices as larger chain grinders
 Chain clamping vise in best position for visibility and chain control and advancement.
 Includes (1) grinding wheel for 1/4", 3/8LP & .325 pitch saw chain
 Wheel Template
 Operators manual

Replacement grinding wheels for this grinder please see our listing numbers 382041441292 (1/8" size) and 382041446081 (3/16" size).  

However it appears to use a  85 watt motor and believe the same adjustments as the Harbor Freight and similar electric sharpeners.

(I'm unable to list any ad links and pics I don't own.)

Anyway I'm thinking of spending more for a sharpener between ~$80.00 - ~$140.00 or possibly the Sharp Boy which appears a little better quality than the HF's.

[Bandmill Bandit]

I have been sharpening chain saws since I was 14 years old. I think I probably used just about every method/sharpener made. They all work! Some better than others. Personally I never found a dedicated electric sharpener I really liked better than my trusty dremel.

I did find one I love and for the last 4 or 5 years I have been using the Timberline sharpening system with the most consistent success and the best/sharpest sharpening results I've ever experienced. I sharpen new chains with this one before I use them  

https://www.timberlinesharpener.com/

Prefect sharpen every time! Very easy to use and its quicker than a file once you get the hang of it.

[albert001]

That appears to be a nice sharpener.

I saw a video comparing and testing different sharpening methods and the electric grinder type sharpener produced the best result with cuts and shavings. However the Timberline wasn't used in the experiment and I think would be able to produce same or similar results as an electric grinder / sharpener. (of which there are different sophistications)

My current budget I don't really want to spend more than $50.00 for a chain sharpener.

I'm currently interested in learning more about the Tecomec SharpBoy however I haven't been able to find any online videos or instruction manual.

The only manual I was able to find: https://b2b.tehnika-agro.si/file/open/1015_425f66236b6

[teakwood]

My current budget I don't really want to spend more than $50.00 for a chain sharpener.

So buy a 2 in 1 Pferd/Stihl sharper

[albert001]

Found a Tecomec Electric Chainsaw Chain Grinder Bench Mounted Replaces Oregon 310-120 for $44.95. Don't know if it's any better than Harbor Freights. But it's a grinder wheel type sharpener which is suppose to be better than manual sharpers.

Sharp Boy

P/N 11809002  - 120 V~ 60 Hz75 W4500 min-

THE USER'S FRIENDLY GRINDER Follows the Tecomec tradition of design and manufacturing accuracy: made in compliance with main safety standards.The Sharp Boy grinder classifies in its market segment for operator's friendly features:► Easy to install and start► Same safety devices as larger grinding machines► Chain clamping vise in best position for visibility and chain control and advancement.► Large Ø105 – 4 1/8" grinding wheel ensures longer operation and "pro"-alike consistency of chain profile results, by keeping correct grinding geometry through much lower chain heating

Made from a fiberglass re-enforced plastic.

[Pine Ridge]

Find someone that knows how to hand file a chain and have them teach you how and what to do and what not to do. May be hard to find that person i know, but if you do you will save time and money. Loggers that hand fall would be a good start of people to ask about hand filing, some will be more than happy to show you how, others won't have time to mess with it, just have to find the right one .

[Bandmill Bandit]

When I was sharpening a chain saw a couple of time a day I was *DanG good at it. BUT like every thing else, if you don't use it you lose it.

The Timberline Sharpener will give you the best and most consistent results with the least amount of over all cost and time to sharpen. I know more than a few fallers that I introduced to the Timber line that won't go to the bush without it. You will never regret having one. When you get one send me a PM. I did a mod that makes it better sharpener too.

   

[John Mc]

I saw a video comparing and testing different sharpening methods and the electric grinder type sharpener produced the best result with cuts and shavings. However the Timberline wasn't used in the experiment and I think would be able to produce same or similar results as an electric grinder / sharpener. (of which there are different sophistications)

Let me guess... was that video produced by someone making/selling electric grinder/sharpeners?

My experience has been just the opposite (even with the old-time chainsaw shop guys who really know what they are doing with their grinders - forget about the kid at the local hardware store with 15 minutes of training on the sharpener). I don't see many competitive chainsaw race folks sharpening with a grinder either.

Either way can be effective, what's important is that you are happy with the results and the time it takes to get those results.

[HolmenTree]

I got a saw with a 36" b/c in my truck dedicated just for lowering stumps for the stump grinder. Always have a few spare 36" loops on hand whenever the eventuality of hitting a rock comes around.
A few times this 4.5" cordless angle grinder got me back cutting if I run out of spare chain.
Later back at the shop I get the chain back into good shape with the round file.
Also alot better then wearing out files sharpening back badly rocked out cutters.
I never owned a bench mounted chain grinder, reason why I always kept my free hand filing skills.


 

[medved]

I got a saw with a 36" b/c in my truck dedicated just for lowering stumps for the stump grinder. Always have a few spare 36" loops on hand whenever the eventuality of hitting a rock comes around.
A few times this 4.5" cordless angle grinder got me back cutting if I run out of spare chain.
Later back at the shop I get the chain back into good shape with the round file.
Also alot better then wearing out files sharpening back badly rocked out cutters.
I never owned a bench mounted chain grinder, reason why I always kept my free hand filing skills.


 

Very cool! I just spent a good 20 minutes with a stihl 2-in-1 filing back what seemed like half the tooth depth on a chain after it got really badly damaged from ground contact. Was not fun, probably need to find a source bulk file replacements for it!

[Inaotherlife]

I'll be keeping an eye out for a battery powered grinder at the pawn shops now...