Tree felling tools Norwood Timbertool & Conyfair Rattle Wedge

[tbrickner]

Hi Folks:

I have a lot of 10"to 14" trees that I fell arround here in MD.  Trees with a slight lean in the right direction or slight lean in the wrong direction I don't have a problem felling with a wedge.  I do have problems felling heavy back leaning trees.  Example: 12" diameter tree 60 ft tall with a 5-7 ft lean in the opposite direction I need it to fall. 

I have tried some wedges on these with hit and miss results due to the 4-6" cut that the saw blade takes in the back cut.  It is hard to get a 5" wedge in the tree without cutting part of my plastic wedge to get it to lean in the right direction. 

I was looking into the Norwood Timbertool jack and the Conyfair Rattle Wedge.  I am leaning toward the Rattle Wedge but wanted to find out if anyone has had good results with any of these?  Is there also any other technique to cut these heavy back leaners?

Here is what I have done in the past:

1. Made the back cut.  Put in the wedge.  Hammer it in and bore cut through the wedge to try to finish the back cut.  Finish hammering in the wedge till it falls.
2. Cut the back cut on the left side of the tree to the hinge.  Insert the wedge in the left side back cut.  Finish the back cut on the right side and put a final wedge in the back to fall.

3.  A third technique I haven't tried due to my fear of taking out too much hinge wood is to bore cut in the face of the  notch through the middle of the notch to the back of the tree.  Insert the wedge in the back cut end of the bore cut.  Cut the left and right side back cut leaving a 1/4 inch of wood on the left and right side of back bore cut.  Pound the wedge in the back cut till it breaks the 1/4" left and right side back bore wood and hope that the hinge wood holds to direct the tree to fall forward.

I have had problems with the first two techniqes pinching the saw or not getting enough lift on the tree and am not sure if the 3rd technique would even work or be safe.

I believe the Rattle Wedge may be my best bet because it would allow me to take my shallow back cut and insert the rattle wedge in the little back cut opening while cutting forward to the hinge.  The Rattle Wedge also looks like it would have a lot of lift at 3" which would be better than my 1" wedge.

Has anybody had any luck with these tools or have any suggestions on how to fell a small diameter back leaning tree?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom

[John Woodworth]

I've never seen or even heard of the rattle wedge before  and looks like it would be worth a try however except for the weight the Norwood Timber tool would be hard to beat, almost bought one a few years ago, they are quite a machine.

[Rocky_J]

It sounds silly but on skinny back leaning pecker poles like that I've sometimes made my back cut first. Stuck the wedge in and then cut the notch. Even if you leave too fat of a hinge you can always carve out more on the notch side.

[chucker]

theres just nothing like a good ole come along to pull a leaner! the norwood jack just dont seem trust worthy, and seems like it could or would slip on the base !! not good with nothing else holding a tree....

[tbrickner]

Rockey_J:

Thanks for your help.

I have 3 questions for you and chucker.

Q1: How do you get more lean with a 1" wedge.  I push the wedge in but sometimes the lean is too much and the 1" wedge doesn't have enough height to push the tree forward.

Q2:In this case would I be better off throwing a rope and using a come along?

Q3:Also How safe is it to cut the notch with the back cut first?   Is there a technique you use? For example: Do you typically approach the notch with a shallow angle then straight cut like a humboldt notch?  I would assume you leave a lot of hinge to be safe so you can finish pushing in the wedge.

[tbrickner]

John Woodworth:

Have you used the Timber Tool with any success on heavy back leaning trees?

Thanks for the help,
Tom

[chucker]

on you back cut ,dont come straight in for the fall ! do a angle cut on the back to set the wedge above the normal falling cut.. (theres still a good chance for pinch without forward pull) this will give you 2 times better pressure away from the hinge not lifting the tree but pushing it away from the lean... with the 1/3rd rule for the falling direction notch. the control for the fall is to slowly deepen the notch as the wedge is driven down.. hope this helps...  for q.#2 it is always better to be safe then sorry !! a little extra prep saves time in the long end! a rope and cable are always at hand for me when ever in doubt!!   with the 3rd Q, i would not temp the cut as if it has to much lean your looking for a pinched saw!!

[Rocky_J]

umm, no. Angled back cuts are the sign of an inexperienced cutter who doesn't know how to fell a tree safely. I'm sorry and do not mean to offend, but that is incorrect advice. The only people who use an angled back cut are those who don't know any better. Placing a wedge in an angled back cut will create side forces that can possibly split out the trunk or put side forces on the hingewood, causing early hinge failure. The purpose of wedges is to create lift. That is usually best accomplished with a flat back cut. There are some good instructional books out there by authors such as Jerry Beranek (The Fundamentals of General Tree Work) or D. Douglas Dent. These books cover many more advanced techniques far beyond the basics.

Of course I'm just going to come off sounding like a know-it-all and I'm sure to receive several insulting jabs for my 'rudeness'. My apologies in advance for offending those who don't know any better.  :-\

[chucker]

 :D no offence taken!! thats why i say better to be safe then sorry by using a cable and come along !! but as we do here in the northern mid west cuting jack pine , a long pole and some one to push it!! trees 12" and under are usually not hard to drop..

[tbrickner]

Rocky-J

I am not a professional but from what I have read and from my Mechanical Engineering experience you are 100% correct about the problems involved with the forces on the wood with an angled back cut.

Rocky:  How far do you typically cut in to the tree with the back cut as your first cut.  2/3 or less diameter?  

Tom

[Rocky_J]

Nah, I'll play it by feel depending on the situation. Probably about half, but I'll take into account the amount of back lean, the diameter of the tree, the size of the wedges I have to work with and the amount of lift I need to tip it over. Not to mention the species and condition of the tree which give me hints as to how much hinge I need. It's not the safest method and I don't run into that scenario very often so I don't use it much. But it's another option to consider when other methods aren't as desirable for whatever reason.

[beenthere]

Rocky_J
It sounds silly but on skinny back leaning pecker poles like that I've sometimes made my back cut first. Stuck the wedge in and then cut the notch. Even if you leave too fat of a hinge you can always carve out more on the notch side.

Makes good sense to me. 

[Ianab]

Q1: How do you get more lean with a 1" wedge.  I push the wedge in but sometimes the lean is too much and the 1" wedge doesn't have enough height to push the tree forward.

Q2:In this case would I be better off throwing a rope and using a come along?

If one wedge isn't enough you can double them up and put two wedges in stacked. There are limits of course, but if one inch of lift doesn't quite get you to the tipping point you can stick stacked wedges in and get to 2". If it hasn't tipped over by then, you should have set a rope.  ;)

If in doubt, set a rope first. If you can tip it over with wedges then you have only wasted a couple of minutes. It it's not going to tip over with the wedges, then you can go to plan B safely.

Rocky has a lot of experience and is able to judge how the tree will react pretty well, us part timers and weekend warriors should probably take a more cautious 'belt and braces' approach.

Ian

[chevytaHOE5674]

I've had good success with making the back cut first, and inserting wedges; Then cutting the face out. Sometimes on a tree with heavy lean stacking wedges is needed. But don't wedge too high too fast or you can lift the tree and break the hinge wood.

[Rocky_J]

If your wedges are rounded over on the butt from pounding (like all my K&N wedges after they have been used twice) and the lip prevents you from double stacking, then what I do is start my first wedge in the middle of the back cut. Then once it is buried I'll put two more wedges in on the sides, closer to the hinge. Alternate pounding them in and you will get more lift closer to the hinge. This is my normal technique on our smallish pine trees around here.

[John Woodworth]

Have you used the Timber Tool with any success on heavy back leaning trees?

Thanks for the help,
Tom

No I haven't, never got around to buying one but have seen them used and they work wonderful, you are applying mechanical leverage to the tree at a higher point above the cut.
The only reason I didn't get one is I generaly have a skidder if the stiuation warrents it to either push or pull them over, mostly I'll do the backcut, then the undercut till it sets back then knock it over with a driver.

[John Mc]

Here's a method that works when you have too much back lean for one wedge to drive over (and no winch or come-along to pull it over for you):

Cut a couple of "cookies" from a pole or other scrap of wood. First one should be about 1/2"-3/4" thick, the next one a bit thicker (how many of these you'll need and what the thickness of the thickest one is depends on how much back lean you have).

Make my normal notch. Bore cut parallel and behind the notch to form the hinge. Start making the rest of my back cut by cutting the bore cut further back. Don't go all the way out the back... leave some wood to keep the tree from settling back and closing up the saw kerf (I'll usually try to offset this holding wood to one side a bit, to leave a nice spot in the middle of the back for a wedge.)

Pound a wedge in till it's snug, then snip off the last of my holding wood. If the tree actually has back lean, it will now be sitting back on your wedge. Pound the wedge in as far as you can. This should open up the saw kerf.

Slip your 1/2"-3/4" cookie into the saw kerf as a spacer, then put your second wedge on top of this cookie and drive it in as far as it will go. This should lift the tree further (the height of your wedge plus the cookie). It should take the load off your first wedge, which can be slipped out.

If the tree has not already fallen, take your next thickest cookie and slip it in the saw kerf which has been opened up, stack the wedge you just removed on top of this thicker cookie, and drive it in.

You can repeat this with increasing cookie thickness (within reason) until the tree falls. I took a walnut with some heavy back lean over this way. My final cookie was over 3" thick (thih was on a tree that was 22" diameter at the cut). I had a rope and a come along tied to the tree as "insurance", but wanted to see if it could be done without those tools. It worked like a charm.

One problem with stacking wedges on top of each other it that they seem more likely to pop out (stacking plastic on plastic, rather than plastic on wood). The cookies seem to lock right in place, especially if you cut across the end grain. The grain seems to lock into the grain of the tree fairly well. You can also take down a good bit of back lean with only two wedges.

John Mc

[medic1289]

So, is everyone using plastic wedges, or do you make wooden ones?  Is plastic better'n wood?  I've made mine outta oak, watching the grain so they don't split on the first whack.
Is splitting why guys use plastic?  Really just want to know.  Thanks, sy

[timber tramp]

  I use both plastic and wood. I carry 3 plastic, 2) 10" 1) 12", and make wooden wedges on the spot if needed.                  TT

[beenthere]

Like TT. Do both, and fashion some in the woods when needed. As well, make a "sledge" to knock them in. Ash limbs at close to right angle with 2-3" limb wood works well. Leave about a 3' handle. The large head helps to keep from splitting the wood wedges.

[Reddog]

A couple of other things that work well on smaller diameter trees are push poles and putting your back cut in at two levels.

Our push poles where about 8' to 10' in length, with a nail or sharpened steel rod in the end to make them bite.
With push poles we would also use wedges with back leaner's. Like has already been stated, make the back cut first, place a wedge, cut the face, try and see if you can push it over with the pole, if not drive the wedge.

The other way is we make the face, most times a little shallower than normal to be able to get more wedge into the back cut.
Then make the back cut, but only let the bar go about 2/3 of the way in. Place a wedge, then go above or below the that back cut and over lap by an inch or less to finish cutting. In most trees the vertical Wood fiber will tear easily as you drive the wedge in. This also allows a second wedge to be placed in the final back cut to help.

[beenthere]

Wally
Is 1 in the diagram the backcut or the face cut?

[Rocky_J]

It looks like #1 is the face cut. #2 and #3 are the overlapping back cuts (so you don't cut your wedge).

[stonebroke]

What is a rattle wedge?

Stonebroke

[chevytaHOE5674]

What is a rattle wedge?

Stonebroke

Looks interesting.
http://www.sherrilltree.com/s.nl;jsessionid=0a010c461f43a1e148d6c9f542d1b527fd721885bd98.e3eSc3qPbN0Te34Pa38Ta38Nchv0?it=A&id=134&sc=11&category=2339

[beenthere]

Expensive, but looks like a clever idea.

Maybe instead, a half-dozen large diam. lag bolts and a socket/driver would worm it's way into a back-cut to provide lift (that is if carrying a few wedges along doesn't suffice  ).

[timber tramp]

  Description says that rattle wedge weighs 3 pounds, that's enough to turn me off.  TT

[Reddog]

1 is the face cut.

[Stephen Alford]

Hey all ; use the plastic ones to protect the saw and put the comehither wedge in the middle. 

[oakwood productions]

I think that Rocky's technique is the answer for you. It sounds a little unorthodox but it will work .  Backcut first then wedge then create your face cut.

[beenthere]

I've used Rocky's technique quite a bit on small diam (8-14") ash trees this last week.
It works well.. as long as one doesn't make the first cut (backcut) deeper than what the wedge needs to have a firm seat.  : :

On one I cut too deep, and then when making the face cut, the tree leaned and pinched the bar. Turned out ok, but getting that tree to set back onto the wedges was a bit of a trick. So the lesson learned was just enough backcut to get a wedge set. Then the face notch, then a plunge cut to set up the hinge, then cut back out towards the first 'backcut'. Felt I had good control and placement of the tree. Used it when the actual lean of tall, small diam ash trees was real difficult to figure out.

[Chelsea Tree]

I use a Rattle Wedge but only up in the tree and mainly to keep the saw from getting pinched by a slight back lean.

It is a slick little piece, it's expensive but it is one of those tools that I do find handy to have in the ol' trick bag.