Forestry & Railroads

[williamgriffin]

Since I started forestry school, I have become more aware of the correlation between railroads and forestry. Railroads were at one time (if I'm not mistaken) the primary means of moving logs from the woods to the mill. At times I've been curious as to just how closely  the two were/are related and tonight I decided to make an attempt to quantifying this relationship.

I used QGIS, a shape file with the location of all of the mills in the southeast, and the location of the primary rail lines in the southeast. Essentially I queried how many mills fell within 1.5 miles of a railroad, and displayed the results. Hopefully, it is at least a little interesting to you all and I haven't wasted your time with this post! (If you are really interested, I also created a pdf that came out a bit clearer that I am happy to email/pm/whatever.)



Sawmill Data is courtesy of the USFS, 2005.
Railroad Data is courtesy of the U.S. Census Bureau, 2016.

[BaldBob]

Yes railroads were one of the primary means of moving logs to the mills in the late 19th century and early 20th century.  However, a great many of those railroads ran from the woods directly to the mills, were owned by the mills, and didn't interact with major rail lines. Many of them weren't even the same gauge as as the major lines and in the West many of them used special cog wheel engines to negotiate the rough terrain, When I started managing a large industrial tree farm in the 1970's that had been railroad logged, many of the old log trestles were still standing. I can remember seeing Weyerhauser still railroad logging from their Marcola tree farm to their Mill in Springfield ,OR when I worked in that area in the late 60's.

[fishpharmer]

Williamgriffin, this is interesting.  Noticing your source for sawmill information is dated 2005, makes me curious how many of those mills survived the 2007-2008 housing market crash?

[thecfarm]

I know you are not posting about my area.
I really can't think of any sawmill in Maine that gets logs by rail.In fact I don't think I ever saw logs on a train. Seen ALOT of pulpwood,but not logs. But I am only around a couple  big sawmills too. Years ago yes,but not since I can remember.

[Bruno of NH]

I have seen spruce logs at the rail hub in White River Jct Vt loaded on rail cars going north headed to Canada I would think

[Woodhauler]

I know you are not posting about my area.
I really can't think of any sawmill in Maine that gets logs by rail.In fact I don't think I ever saw logs on a train. Seen ALOT of pulpwood,but not logs. But I am only around a couple  big sawmills too. Years ago yes,but not since I can remember.

Irving in dixfield gets pine on rail quite often. I have off loaded and hauled them into mill for them. Check the siding on 108 behind rumford mill. Also Mooseriver lumber in jackman gets wood weekly by rail.

[thecfarm]

I have seen that siding many times,just never been by there when the logs are on there. Kinda surprised I never see the logs go by either. I think the train has to go through Livermore Falls,Jay to get there? Unless they come from Bethel way.

[Skip]

Check out Cass Scenic R.R in Cass WV ,old logging R.R.

[Mooseherder]

Irving bought the Railroad line In Northern Maine that was previously owned by Bangor and Aroostook Railroad in between Van Buren and Madawaska.  I don't know if they use the whole line but they do cross American Logs from their Logging operations into Canada by Rail Bridge at Van Buren into St. Leonard Canada at their Sawmill operation.  It is a huge operation that then crosses the lumber back into USA on Railcars to their staging yard for shipment by Semi Trucks to a destination near you.  The area where they put the staging yard used to be my playground when I was a kid.
The remaining Railroad lines that connected Caribou, Presque Isle, Stockholm and surrounding towns was dismantled and given to local ATV and snowmobile clubs.  It has become a major source of revenue and recreational value for a very depressed area of the State basically at the end of the line.
It's also an area that isn't on your map.

[sawguy21]

It was common here but as road building and trucks improved the railways gradually disappeared. 20 years ago I did see trains coming out of north central B.C. loaded with logs, there was a lot of wood available but distance to the mills was too great to make trucking economical.  I don't know if the line is still active.

[barbender]

MN was logged, from what I've read, first with oxen teams, and then horses- both methods generally in winter and only in timber that was within skidding distance of rivers. Once the easy stuff was logged the mills began putting in rail lines, generally they weren't tied to other lines. In fact, one near here ended up being declared a "public carrier", if I remember the term right. That bit that that company later because they had to keep that line running for years after it quit being profitable, the government wouldn't let them close it down. Anyways, MN is laced with old logging RR grades, there is one within 1/4 mile of my house. MN may have had more logging RR's than anywhere else, other than perhaps the PNW.

[dustintheblood]

Great work!

I think perhaps another way to look at it isn't so much what's coming into the mill, but what's leaving.  Lumber (especially construction) is way more efficient and cost effective by rail.  Don't know for sure if it's exactly true south of the border, but can tell yah for sure that up here a good sized mill must be by a siding.  Trucks just can't make the distance cost or time effectively.

[longtime lurker]

Great work!

I think perhaps another way to look at it isn't so much what's coming into the mill, but what's leaving.  Lumber (especially construction) is way more efficient and cost effective by rail.  Don't know for sure if it's exactly true south of the border, but can tell yah for sure that up here a good sized mill must be by a siding.  Trucks just can't make the distance cost or time effectively.

Same here. I would say that here most of the old sawmills were within 50 yards of the railroad tracks. Maybe not even that far.... the rail network was quasi government in a Ma Bell type of way... and the actual system of easements and rights of way was still owned by the crown.
And they used to offer long term leases of trackside land cheap... complete with your own siding... to the sawmills. Which wasnt so much about logs into the mill, as getting product from the mills to the cities and export ports to the south.
The other thing from the sawmills point of view was that as the electric transmission network opened up it was also quasi government in a Ma Bell way also... and the power lines got strung up on the telegraph poles beside the train lines.

[Wudman]

Check out the history of the Surry Lumber Company (Dendron, VA).  That mill was logged (mined the timber) with narrow guage railroad.  The facility was sawing about 400,000 board feet per day in the early 1900s.  The narrow guage line ran from the Sawmill out to the lumber camps across the landscape.  It also provided service to Scotland Warf on the James River.  The Warf provided access to shipping up and down the coast as well as export.  It was a rather impressive operation, until they ran out of timber in the 1920s. 

Wudman

[Ed_K]

 Traveling rt 30 in southern Vt. you can still see a narrow gage track bed. It runs from brattleboro Vt. up past townsend Vt. it runs along and criss-cross's the west river to get down to the connecticut river. The west river is too shallow to push logs down but the connecticut is a main river from Canada to the ocean.

[Corley5]

  Old logging railroads are all over here.  Most in my neighborhood radiate out from the old settlement of Springvale.  Others lead to old town sites along the Sturgeon River such as Rondo, Haakwood, Trowbridge etc all of which are gone except for a few foundations. 
  There's a concentration yard in Rexton where hardwood pulp is loaded on rail cars and sent to the western end of Da UP.

[enigmaT120]

I see logs on trains around here.  There's some sort of sorting yard in Crabtree, OR.  I think they might be sent up to Portland for the export market. 

[CCC4]

Excellent thread! I have always found railroads and trains interesting. Not logging related however...I used to cut sell and haul a lot of hay in my area, mainly river bottom hay. You learn your hay types by the grasses, you can almost guess what area which hay came from. In my river bottoms there was always Johnson Grass. If grown too long it was a burden, if cut short its as good as any. I always wondered why Johnson grass was pretty much always in river bottom fields. Well, there is a railway that runs along the river here. One idea of how Johnson grass originated along these bottoms is due to the railway hauled Johnson grass hay for the Calvary during the Civil War. Like I said if cut short it is excellent hay...it makes sense that Calvary would have sent this hay via railway to feed the horses...I'm going with it.

[Ianab]

Here in NZ the railway system isn't all that extensive now, but coming out of Wellington on our big road trip we happened to pass a train heading into town. About 6 carriages of logs in with the other assorted freight. I assume heading to the port In Wellington to get added to the export pile.

Trucks have the advantage on shorter hauls, because they can pick up the log from the landing, and deliver them to mill / port without them being handled again. But for long distance (100+ miles) the train starts to look better. For all practical purposes, once it's on a train, it doesn't cost much more to haul it 5,000 miles. The loading handling / unloading is where the cost is.

If you have to go Truck / Train / Truck to reach the final destination it needs to be a long haul to cover the extra handling.

[snowstorm]

another interesting train story. the 2 steam trains at eagle lake maine. they were brought in from quebec on the ice. i have been there a couple times by snowmobile

[Corley5]

Good stuff on this site  8)  The data base is interesting with it's pics and ownership history of the engines.

http://www.shaylocomotives.com/

[snowstorm]

another interesting train story. the 2 steam trains at eagle lake maine. they were brought in from quebec on the ice. i have been there a couple times by snowmobile

the railroad was built by king edward lacroix. it ran 13 miles from eagle lake to umbazooksus lake. there was also a steam powered tramway that was 3000' long from eagle lake to chamberlin lake

[mlufholm]

Mr. Griffin - well done on the question AND the answer! It is neat to see a young person using tools and asking questions about the world they live in. This might be a cool next step...how about an intersection with the river/navigable water layers vs. your rail lines that are available? Just an idea. To be honest, I am pretty curious. Thanks for putting that together!