Post to beam connection

[Zeke]

I had an architect draw up a design for a 24'x24' building. However, one of the joints concerns me. What is your opinion of this joint?  The roof is common rafter with the rafters spiked down instead of a traditional joint. The building will be coverded with sips.








Thanks,
Zeke

[Don P]

I'm not going to argue with a pro, well maybe a little bit  :D
Did you see the connector in the kingpost truss thread, looks like an application where something along those lines might work good?

[Jim_Rogers]

Don P: Just cause he has a AIA after his name doesn't make him an expert.

His joint is weak, and you have reasons to be concerned.

Three inches of tenon, on the end of the tie beam doesn't leave much "relish" for the peg.

Without seeing all the design it's hard to totally understand what's going on but there is room for improvement there.

Are these beams full dimension?
I don't see any housings? Especially where the tie beam meets the post?
Is it possible to lower the interrupted plate to a little lower removing the three way joint and allow the tie beam tenon to be longer?
Or lower the tie?

Jim Rogers

[Zeke]

Jim,

I think your concerns are the same as mine. Yes the dimensions are full size. Here's a couple of views of the entire frame.





Zeke

[Greg]

My kneejerk reaction is this guys doesn't have a clue about structural aspects of TF joinery.

If you want post and beam, just play it safe and easy and use full metal connectors.

Seems like this drawing is a half (assed) timber frame, half post and beam.

Sorry for being blunt,
Greg

[Zeke]

No reason to be sorry. I agree! I'm going to redo the design myself.  Hopefully, I'll have my drawings done in a couple of days to share.

Zeke

[Jim_Rogers]

It appears that you have some common rafters coming down to the plates.
If this is true, then you can't lower the plates without affecting the roof system. So you could lower the ties.
Are you going to have a second floor?
If so, make the top to the floor joists even with the top of the plates and you can run your flooring right over to the eave wall.
You can put your floor joist over the ties and this will help your tie to post connection by lowering it to by the height of the floor joists.
If you're not going to have a second floor then just lower the ties and solve the problem.
Just some suggestions.
Jim Rogers

[Norm from Ottawa]

Zeke,

I have a similar design......common rafters, post and beam. My designer specifically excluded this sort of detail. He wants a scarf joint in the beam, not at the post, so as to not weaken the connection at the beam to post. Hope he has it right.

Norm

[Dan Miller]

Zeke,

Here is a an in-progress photo of a frame my brother and I built last fall (we're a bit farther along now!). It is 24x24, and was designed by Jack Sobon. Like Jim suggested, the tie beams are dropped below the (continuous) plates. Rather than a kingpost and ridge beam, we have queen posts and purlin plates. The common rafters are 2x6 with a 2x ridge board. Second floor joists simply rest on top of the tie beams. The short knee wall provides enough headroom that I can stand upright right up to the purlin plates (9/12 pitch roof). Posts and purlin plates are 8x8, Tie beams and purlin plates are 8x10. This might be an alternative way to achieve the building you are trying to build.

[Don P]

To my eye in the second drawing he is showing what I would call a structural ridge, with the commons hanging from it. If that's the case then there should be no thrust on the rafter feet. Going one step further I'm thinking then that the nails are simply holding alignment. Not saying its good or bad, just wondering out loud I guess  ???.

[Zeke]

I'm not going to have a second floor. So, I have a couple of options. I'm trying to decide between a frame with the tie beams dropped a foot or two. I could also go with an english tying joint with intermediate plates. My roof pitch is also 9/12. I need to double check the height of my house. I want to make sure I'm still shorter than the house. I also don't want the bottom of the tie beam to be less than 8' above the floor. What can I say I don't  like low beams.

Thanks,
Zeke

[Zeke]

I have found an interesting solution to my problem. I am considering using a splinded joint as mentioned in the links below.

http://www.tfguild.org/ubbcgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000043
http://www.spbrooks.com/join.htm

Opinions please.

Zeke

[rcolmansr60]

Zeke,
    I didn't know if these pictures would be of any help. They were taken at houses being built by Timberpeg in Sunapee and New London NH. If they don't attach to this message click in my gallery.