the not so local tigercat salesman stopped in this evening and was tellin me about the new small grapple skidder they got comin out. its a touch bigger than deeres 548 g111. you can get a cable machine or a grapple with either a dual arch OR a SWING boom. he seemed pretty pumped up about it (go figure). I have no experience with tigercat but ive heard good things only about them. its called a 602 and they will have one at the paul bunyan show. its nice to see that someone cares about the small loggers in this part of the world ;)
Im trying to go see one myself, I live pretty close to where they are made .
The TC 602 is likely to be what is called a pre-production prototype. TC would be displaying the skidder to gauge the level of interest in a smaller skidder before committing to build it as a production model.
http://www.tigercat.com/602-skidder/ (two prototype602s were displayed at Les Cognees in France)
https://youtu.be/TdQy1kMJcSo
I still wish they would build a new skidder with out front wheel pivot I hate that
Quote from: coxy on July 26, 2017, 06:45:49 AM
I still wish they would build a new skidder with out front wheel pivot I hate that
that is an option. either front axle pivot or the oscillating frame like the old franklins. u might as well get on ordered coxy ;). no excuses now ;D they have fiat motors in them that are branded tigercat. not sure about them. they have only been usin them since 2015. he said as far as tier 4 motors they are the simplest
fiat!!?? ??? ??? I have never heard any good about fiat. do they have a industrial line where they make bigger engines??
Fiat or fpt owns new Holland case and more. Iveco is also there's . There are a few fpt. Marine engines up this way. They also worked with cummins on the 5.9 and 6.7. I was told Ford has a 31 % ownership of fiat. And that the class 8 Ford trucks in Europe are iveco Ford. I have an iveco motor. Very nice motor
Fpt= fiat power train
Fiat owns chrysler (spelling?) or part of ?
Some Fiat farm tractors like the 100-90 are labeled as some of the very best tractors ever made. Just some food for thought. Little known mechanical gems.
Quote from: OH logger on July 26, 2017, 07:16:10 AM
Quote from: coxy on July 26, 2017, 06:45:49 AM
I still wish they would build a new skidder with out front wheel pivot I hate that
that is an option. either front axle pivot or the oscillating frame like the old franklins. u might as well get on ordered coxy ;). no excuses now ;D they have fiat motors in them that are branded tigercat. not sure about them. they have only been usin them since 2015. he said as far as tier 4 motors they are the simplest
I would buy one but I don't like the color and don't like being in an enclosed cab so I wont be able to order one ;D 8)
My wish list just got a lot more expensive ;D. Wonder if they will price it right for the smaller loggers.
Quote from: OH logger on July 26, 2017, 07:16:10 AM
they have fiat motors in them that are branded tigercat.
I am sure they take " fiat " money for it. :D
Fiat PowerTrain Technologies (FPT industrial) make around 3 million engines a year. FPT Industrial are a subsidiary of CNH Industrial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNH_Industrial
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Powertrain_Technologies
[/quote]I would buy one but I don't like the color and don't like being in an enclosed cab so I wont be able to order one ;D 8)
[/quote]
you can take the windows out AND they might paint it any color u want...for the right price. :D now you HAVE to order one!! I have the salesmans number if u need it ;D
I want one. !! :D
What's the price on one of these bad boys now. ?
Might have to mortgage the farm to own one. 8) 8) 8) 8)
Ive always been quite confident that our current push towards computerized soft touch fancy pants automated bigger faster quiter more efficient and insanely expensive equipment is not enjoyed by everyone, particularly the cost and complexity of repair at 15k hours. Im sure that a significant demand could exist for a small winch + DA grapple machine with a 4bt or 6bt, basic spicer/new process/dana/eaton manual tranny and off the shelf manual spool hydraulics with plain old S cam air brakes that actually hold on a hill. Something you can haul on a backhoe trailer with a dually and get parts/hoses at napa. Maybe even on tractor rubber that doesnt cost $2k per corner.
I know load sensing and closed center hydraulics is the cats meow but troubleshooting that stuff is over most guys heads and i sure dont want to be at the whim of the one shop who can source that exclusive obsolute part some day.
Grapple blade ftw.
OH logger going to the logger fest next month I'm shur cj logging will have one ill tell them to send the skidder to roscoe and the payment book to you that way its a win win for both of us I can show people the skidder and you can show them the thick payment book ;D
The new small JD and Cat wheel skidders start at 37K lb and 40 K lbs.
What other new 'small wheel skidders are there? What does it take to end an old wheel skidder?
Awassos MD80 11-12K lb - 80 hp skidder.
http://www.awassos.com/md80.php (Roxton Falls, Quebec , Canada)
https://youtu.be/Dg5rV_dBA-k
Cat rebuild.
https://youtu.be/t7Qm5JhlRM4
I'll take one of those too ! 8)
Nice videos Riwaka.
Looks like awassos beat me to it. How much?
some one posted about them a while ago and think they are around 80-100k but not a 100%
Could buy several good 540's for that much.
Quote from: mike_belben on July 27, 2017, 12:28:18 AM
Ive always been quite confident that our current push towards computerized soft touch fancy pants automated bigger faster quiter more efficient and insanely expensive equipment is not enjoyed by everyone, particularly the cost and complexity of repair at 15k hours. Im sure that a significant demand could exist for a small winch + DA grapple machine with a 4bt or 6bt, basic spicer/new process/dana/eaton manual tranny and off the shelf manual spool hydraulics with plain old S cam air brakes that actually hold on a hill. Something you can haul on a backhoe trailer with a dually and get parts/hoses at napa. Maybe even on tractor rubber that doesnt cost $2k per corner.
I know load sensing and closed center hydraulics is the cats meow but troubleshooting that stuff is over most guys heads and i sure dont want to be at the whim of the one shop who can source that exclusive obsolute part some day.
Grapple blade ftw.
Problem is new anything costs, and you've got to figure in all the emissions junk.
On rhe other hand tossing 50k at the devil you know and own already can go a fair way with component overhauls, and you don't need to spend it all at once. Just pick a place and start.
At least in 50K overhaul include some paint, some forest/ logging managers etc like to see the shiny paint (even if the machine is well experienced)
https://youtu.be/7aCz8NFhm_8 (602 display with Charlier crane grapple)
So ive been wondering about swing booms. I see that theyre typically a love or hate item on skidders (and that seems to be based in whether theyre on the right or wrong task application) ... I am curious how would a swing boom work as a log loader in the woods.. Within reason, for a one man show.
I have a dozer and offroad forklift. The forklift has to stay on a generous sized landing where it has room to work, and is terrible at short logs, drops them everywhere, cant spin butts around etc. The dozer is really slow on long skids but it would be tolerable to forward CTL logs on a home made trailer. That still means dragging logs to a main trail. I was thinking a swing boom skidder makes sense if it can fetch and load bucked logs on the trailer parked nearby. One at a time is tolerable if need be. Still much faster than using the dozer all the way to the landing. A forestry trailer with loader could work but wont be able to get off the main trail so logs still need to be dragged to the edge. I could do that with dozer but iron undercarriage is slow and wear is at a higher price than rubber.
A real log loader is the thing im trying to avoid. It means getting a road tractor, building culverts and gravel road entrances etc. Im trying to find max productivity in the medium duty truck size with the least amount of equipment. want to stay smaller and do less roadbuilding, less insurance etc. And id love to leave the forklift home.
Thoughts?
why not find an old army truck that's all wheel drive should be able to put 1-1500bf on it and go that's what some of the guys around here do they also have loaders on them
I did find a 5ton with a prentice that woulda been great if i could have afforded it. Im broke for the forseeable future
I build machines, thats more whats behind my line of questioning. I have a complete backhoe off a massey 450hx that i considered putting on back my forklift in place of the counterweight. Im certain itll work well but the forklift is still a landing only machine that cant really be used much in winter here (it rains but doesnt freeze). I just wonder if the backhoe bits grafted onto a cable skidder could be a little handier and more capable of getting in the woods. Plus planting the hoe would make a great high pulley mount to winch up out of the hollars. Thats where the maturest trees usually are on the sites i get into, the ones skipped by the previous logger.
You have to figure out your priorities. Is it skidding or loading ? There is no perfect machine for every task.
I have a Patu swing boom on the back of my skidder, it's not meant to do what the one in the video is doing, but because I am mostly doing firewood and dealing with a lot of small diameter stuff, it's working for me. It has a lot of pros and cons, I can pick up a lost stick on the skid trail with my next drag or I can pack a couple of them in the grapple on top of the two twitches ( under ideal conditions ) . It's not a forwarder, visibility is very limited in my case, as the boom is mounted on top of the winch and fairly high. In the bush that can be a disadvantage, as you always have to watch the hoses on top. I was thinking of building a trailer for it but changed my mind, it has also to do with that I can turn my seat only 90 degree and not 180 and I have twelve functions on one joy stick on the right and nothing on the left. I know, that all can be changed, but my point is that there is no " do it all buggy " without limitations.
The Euro skidders that have a forwarder crane, clambunk, and 3 winches look like the cat's meow to me.
Quote from: barbender on August 05, 2017, 12:45:50 AM
The Euro skidders that have a forwarder crane, clambunk, and 3 winches look like the cat's meow to me.
:D they have just 2 winches :D
I would also suggest a eurostyle skidder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuBYffdiQhA
Looks like a full loader on front of the welte. Thats pretty rare.
How much trouble can the swing boom get you into in terms of reaching out too far and rolling over? Are the hydraulics powerful enough to pull the machine over on flat ground? Does the blade stabilize things at all?
those small awassos skidders are made in Quebec in 2 different horsepower classes and when I seen them the biggest was about $100,000. Looked ok but my feeling was you needed to be in good timber to make them pay, a small 440 jd would out skid them pretty bad , the 602 looks like a nice machine just need to find out the dollar price and see how things like the doors are , the 610 doors weigh a ton and when cable skidding getting in and out 100 times a day does not seem like fun
Quote from: mike_belben on August 05, 2017, 09:00:57 AM
Looks like a full loader on front of the welte. Thats pretty rare.
How much trouble can the swing boom get you into in terms of reaching out too far and rolling over? Are the hydraulics powerful enough to pull the machine over on flat ground? Does the blade stabilize things at all?
The front blade only gets about 5' above ground. I wouldn't call it a loader, more of a stacker.
Of coarse you can get the tires of ground when reaching out too far, but you realize pretty quick when instead lifting a load, the wheels go in the air.
Just drop it or try to drag it closer and then lift. Same thing with any other loader or forwarder, no need to roll it. :)
What size dozer are you running mike_belben? Been a lot of logs loaded with a beak on the blade, though as a system it suits large or long logs.
I think that my perfect solution to doing much with little would be a larger grapple skidder around a Clark 667 size and a trackloader around cat 953 class on single bar grousers with a winch. Thatd give me the rubber +grapple mix for fast and long hauls and a loader that can go/push where a skidder can't get to.
Its a komatsu d31P-18.. I think about 17,000 lbs.
I have a case 450 crawler loader up north but need to get my CDL-A before i can haul it down. Thats been a frusterating challenge.
Its a ways off but i will come up with forks and a thumb to go on the case and thatll be a huge help. Then i have to decide on which machine is suited for winch or grapple or trailer. Probably pull trailer with d31 and load with 450 forks.
I wont buy a skidder unless logging turns unexpectedly profitable.
Quote from: mike_belben on August 06, 2017, 02:39:20 PM
Its a komatsu d31P-18.. I think about 17,000 lbs.
I have a case 450 crawler loader up north but need to get my CDL-A before i can haul it down. Thats been a frusterating challenge.
Its a ways off but i will come up with forks and a thumb to go on the case and thatll be a huge help. Then i have to decide on which machine is suited for winch or grapple or trailer. Probably pull trailer with d31 and load with 450 forks.
I wont buy a skidder unless logging turns unexpectedly profitable.
that last sentence seems to me like an oxymoron. everywhere is soo different but around here and I would assume A LOT of other places it would be hard to be profitable WITHOUT a rubber tire skidder. unless you are in the mountains and in veneer logs a lot. I hope this didn't come off as smart mouthed but that's the way I see it. skidders are faster and cheaper than dozers to maintain and built for the purpose. but I do understand that loggin is all they can basically do.
I had a D31E-18 for about 10 years. Was a handy little machine and it made me some money but eventually it had to go because it was too small for what we tackle regularly. It'd carry a beak well enough if you didnt have a lot of logs over about 1½ ton or so... I never had a beak on mine but I loaded with it a couple times in desperation by chaining logs to the blade.
Plenty hydraulic flow there to run a grapple on one of them but as a machine (the E at least) it was balanced ass heavy for trim work. Any larger logs we pulled with it ended up chained up to the tree spear and we'd come out backwards because coming out forwards didnt seem to work real well. Those useless pivoting rippers didnt help much with getting the front of a log off the ground either.
Because of the longer dead axles on a P I'd be pretty cautious though... unless you're playing swamp loggers a P is going to give you troubles with dead axles/ duocone seals/ general final drive issues in the woods. How much I dont know... we had a better run with a D83P then we did with a D6D swampy so maybe Komatsu have got that right, or at least righter then Cat.
A loader is a machine designed to load, and any pushing is secondary. Kinda obvious but its your best bet loading.
Skidders make money compared with dozers/crawlers.... except when you go to places a skidder cant go. Also kinda obvious but bears repeating
Sure like the 125E, forks would be handy. It is a keeper but so is the 225 Timberjack. A wheeled skidder can make production.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/P_20170629_145032.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502059452)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/FF3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502059336)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/FF2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502059283)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/FF1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502059215)
Good luck !
nice loader what is the 4x4 monster that's neat
Quote from: OH logger on August 06, 2017, 05:01:51 PM
Quote from: mike_belben on August 06, 2017, 02:39:20 PM
Its a komatsu d31P-18.. I think about 17,000 lbs.
I have a case 450 crawler loader up north but need to get my CDL-A before i can haul it down. Thats been a frusterating challenge.
Its a ways off but i will come up with forks and a thumb to go on the case and thatll be a huge help. Then i have to decide on which machine is suited for winch or grapple or trailer. Probably pull trailer with d31 and load with 450 forks.
I wont buy a skidder unless logging turns unexpectedly profitable.
that last sentence seems to me like an oxymoron. everywhere is soo different but around here and I would assume A LOT of other places it would be hard to be profitable WITHOUT a rubber tire skidder. unless you are in the mountains and in veneer logs a lot. I hope this didn't come off as smart mouthed but that's the way I see it. skidders are faster and cheaper than dozers to maintain and built for the purpose. but I do understand that loggin is all they can basically do.
No harm done and i totally agree. I guess i should have said 'unless my dozer generates unexpected profits.'
I bought the crawler machines in cash when i had it, for building our homestead. Im a machinist/welder/fabricator .. But all my equipment is still in storage up north so i had to make money however i could. But ive also got 2 young kids. Logging and dirt work near home was about the only way i could make my own schedule and bring them with me at times. Savings is gone and its day by day living now. Hopefully temporary.
Im trying to work my way onto some large neighboring tracts with very good HW stands. Where i can be profitable even at a snails pace. If the logs will pay for it, and the terms are right ill buy a skidder, but not before then or by debt. Little by little i'll build one eventually otherwise.
Quote from: longtime lurker on August 06, 2017, 05:15:25 PM
I had a D31E-18 for about 10 years. Was a handy little machine and it made me some money but eventually it had to go because it was too small for what we tackle regularly. It'd carry a beak well enough if you didnt have a lot of logs over about 1½ ton or so... I never had a beak on mine but I loaded with it a couple times in desperation by chaining logs to the blade.
Plenty hydraulic flow there to run a grapple on one of them but as a machine (the E at least) it was balanced ass heavy for trim work. Any larger logs we pulled with it ended up chained up to the tree spear and we'd come out backwards because coming out forwards didnt seem to work real well. Those useless pivoting rippers didnt help much with getting the front of a log off the ground either.
Because of the longer dead axles on a P I'd be pretty cautious though... unless you're playing swamp loggers a P is going to give you troubles with dead axles/ duocone seals/ general final drive issues in the woods. How much I dont know... we had a better run with a D83P then we did with a D6D swampy so maybe Komatsu have got that right, or at least righter then Cat.
A loader is a machine designed to load, and any pushing is secondary. Kinda obvious but its your best bet loading.
Skidders make money compared with dozers/crawlers.... except when you go to places a skidder cant go. Also kinda obvious but bears repeating
Mine had new finals, sprockets and rails put on just before i got it.. So i guess theyre still a weak link on the 18.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0626171937.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500860846)
The wide pads are a life saver here all winter. Ground doesnt freeze
I skid backwards off the blade too. No winch at all yet but im considering putting it on front. You can make the log dance around everything when pulling off a 6 way blade. I have a fused neck, cant turn around anyway so its fine by me. Junk like this doesnt pay and takes forever to rig up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/20170322_174531.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1490239643)
Thats a 41' stick that pays $200 and i can do em 2 at a time.. The pay rate is tolerable enough to continue as i am on good timber. It'll never hang with a skidder but also do ponds, pads, roads, clearing etc.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0522171854.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502071848)
My foremen.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0720171449a-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1501081891)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/20170317_145708.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489819125)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0713171508.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1500010339)
So were you parbuckling logs on with the dozer? Im trying to picture this.
The greenish tractor is likely to be a Steiger (unless someone has used the green paint on something else). Steiger had a number of different models so the spec of the tractor needs to checked for id.
I've never parbuckled a log before, and not in any hurry to do so.
We use wheel loaders where we can. If thats not available (not enough logs to justify shifting a loader/logs too big for a loader to handle) we ramp them. So we push up an earth ramp with the dozer, run the truck in alongside it, then using two saplings for skids we push the log up the ramp and across onto the truck. As a method it works well with big logs or where you'll hit your tonnage in two or three layers of wood on the truck.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/32746/logtruckloading.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1502135911)
A beak is a hydraulic thumb in the middle of the blade that works like a top clamp on a log loader does. It holds the log to the blade which gives greater control when loading off a ramp and means you dont need the saplings to bridge the gap between ramp face and truck. Dozers can lift a lot if it's secured to the blade... gotta remember that those hydraulics can lift up the front half of the dozer and in your case thats like 4 ton.
Gotcha, thanks for the explanation
Coxy, it's a farm tractor made by Steiger. It is a lot like their Bearcat model but this one was originally sold to AC but got repainted back to Steiger green, a long time ago, by a dealer I'm guessing. Steiger has an interesting history.
wouldn't take much to put a winch and arch on there ;D does it seem to get around as good as a skidder would
Coxy, it gets around like a small tractor. Steiger did make a few skidder. My guess would be that they would be a bit tipsy. But I could find a place for one of them ! !
was at Tigercat head office today, they are building a new 602 right now so going to go see it here shortly , their waiting on the back frame half right now
602 testing - giving it the big pull at the end - loaded grapple and winch.
https://youtu.be/Pmi2cdfd0Kg
I go to the tigercat plant the week of the 25th to see the new 602 cable ,its to be ready to drive then
In response to Mike. As he was asking about using a swing boom as a log loader. I have a experienced logger whom brings me logs on occasion and that is how he loads his trailer., ie 28' dual goose neck. I fabricated him up some bunks for it some time back. He grabs a hand full of logs and pulls up along side and sets them in the bunks. Never seen him do it but I am sure he gets by with out busting up too much stuff as I have not had to do any repair yet. He is a one man operation.
me and a buddy went to ricer equipment (our tigercat dealer) a couple weeks ago and supposedly the first 602 will be at the bunyan show this year. he says he already has two of them sold. he thnks the swing boom will be mainly a Europe machine and the dual arch for America. no single arch made as of yet.do you think these machines will catch on with everything..well most everything getting bigger and log prices NOT getting bigger? i mean that deere already made a smaller sized machine in the 548 size. if the market for these size machines was there it would have been far cheaper for them to modify the 548 to fit the emiisions motor in the motor compartment than for tigercat to start from scratch on this smaller machine. i don't get it. thank God tigercat is WAY smarter than this dumb tree cutter and they prolly got that figured out too. ;D I noticed in the video it almost looks like the grapple is not continuous rotation could this be?
John Deere does the 'Powertrain Relife Plus' scheme for the 540 Glll,(sn 604614 onwards), 548 Glll, (sn 604614 onwards), 540H, 548H, 640H, 648H, 748H, 848H.
Reman on the engine, trans, main hydraulic pump (optional) and axles.
Reman on the old engines that do not require the emissions equipment?
So you dont see something for ages and then... there it is. And you got to wander back and find where you'd mentioned the thing in a post "sometime in the last 6 months" :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/32746/dozer_beak.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1512295581)
So this would be a dozer with a beak fitted. Havent seen one for years. Anyhow as you can see its lift height is limited but if you push up a ramp to get the dozer up to trailer height (or doze a slot to get the trailer down to dozer height) it does give you quite a degree of control to lift them on... and one thing I'll give a dozer is they will lift. Probably not the way I'd be wanting to load lots of small logs - its more suited to logs where you hit your weight quick - but it can be done and when you already own the dozer its a cheap way to handle the odd bigger log.
Never seen one on a PAT blade before. If she was a D53 I'd be going for a look at that one methinks.
that's neat the tracks with the holes in the pads are great all the new tracks don't have the holes punched in them you have to do it your self
Awesome, thanks for uploading.
My dirtwork life started with a garden tractor and snow plow that kept getting modified. The plow blade got a hydraulic grapple built similar to that dozer clamp and life has never been the same.
Someday ill get my dozer outfitted as good as that mower.
What is it you don't like about having a front cradle? I remember reading a large thread somewhere talking about oscillating frame vs front pivot and only a couple of the guys liked the rear moving rather than the front. But it's possible that since almost all skidders are front pivot most people have never operated one with and oscillating frame. The guys who did like an oscillating frame said they thought they were better in very rough terrain at keeping all tires on the ground. Others who had been on both said they thought oscillating frame was not as predictable as a front pivoting cradle. I think another name for front pivot is walking beam suspension, even though that is usually used for describing the use of beams on the rear of trucks with tandem axles. What's your experience?
Quote from: coxy on July 26, 2017, 06:45:49 AM
I still wish they would build a new skidder with out front wheel pivot I hate that
The Franklin's and Cat 518 I've been around have better traction more sure footed.
And which style pivots do they have?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/Bearcat.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1483321384)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/225D-frontLeftCorner.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1471569946)
I have both, TJ and a small tractor (by today's standards). I do not use them every day and they are rather new to me. They both get herrrr done. I like them both but of course the tractor is not in the woods much but maneuvers like a real small tractor.
I like the oscillating frame the best because of maintenance. I am dreading replacing the cradle pins in the TJ. I think the oscillator is a simpler design and works well. The cradle has designed in travel limits. It is easier to design the travel snubbers into it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/IMG_20150315_144205.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1426460799)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19539/IMG_20150315_144107.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1426461551)
OK, I have two oscillators.
Quote from: ehp on September 13, 2017, 06:38:10 AM
I go to the tigercat plant the week of the 25th to see the new 602 cable ,its to be ready to drive then
ehp, just wondering if you ever did end up checking out the 602 cable, and if so what your thoughts were. Anyone else get any closer to seeing one run or getting a quote?
FYI, first post here, long time lingerer...
Quote from: DPrest on February 23, 2018, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: ehp on September 13, 2017, 06:38:10 AM
I go to the tigercat plant the week of the 25th to see the new 602 cable ,its to be ready to drive then
ehp, just wondering if you ever did end up checking out the 602 cable, and if so what your thoughts were. Anyone else get any closer to seeing one run or getting a quote?
FYI, first post here, long lingerer...
Likewise, interested in a report on the 602.
Ya I went up and seen the 602, they also had 2 others being built and sounds like lots of interest in this skidder
think their about $250,000 USA for a new one , compared to the older skidder their a good size but I guess small by todays standard , their a lot bigger than my old 230A and I mean a lot . Im pretty sure for around here I would be running 28 L on it for tires instead of the 23.1. Quite abit of weight on the front axle and Im sure would find you every sink hole in the bush with the smaller tires
250k for a "smallish" skidder is still a lot more than most uf us people can pay!
ya but I priced a 648 L last spring and $316,000 plus 13% tax was the price for it , just way way to big of a machine to log in my area , by-law would not even let you drive that in the bush here
Thanks for the feedback, ehp.
Teakwood, I agree, its hard to justify. Here in the Maritime Provinces we just don't have the quality wood to run one steady and make the payments. Without driving your woodlots into the ground, you'd have to be into a prime run of wood.
Interesting considering they're installing crane loaders on these in Europe already. Says a lot of the quality of wood and wood prices that they've got over there compared to ours here (NB, NS, at least).
Tigercat DWC602 preview - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH1cBgjWfBo) .
Supporting payments on a $400,000 + skidder in selection treatments is no simple task.
Europe is completely different, they have requirements we don't have in the states. Plus when you don't have to ship like a harvester over or a crane on the slow boat through a distributor it makes a huge difference in price. 250 for the size the machine is isn't bad at all but being a cable machine I don't see one selling the PNW unless someone buys it to anchor with for tethering a CTL setup. This last year I've been around a few guys from Rottne Sweden they've never seen our setups for a swinging grapple till they were out here they said they were amazed at how much heavier it was compared to the crane setups they use, when you're handing the lighter smaller wood they have their it makes sense.
QuoteSupporting payments on a $400,000 + skidder in selection treatments is no simple task.
I suspect that there are a number of timber groups made up of investors who arent trying to generate cash from timber, but tax deductions for wealth already created. You cant just make your fortune and park it in the bank, you have to continually expand into new expenses if you want to keep last years income. When the depreciation table is used up on those assets you buy new or buy more or expand into a new market all over. Not exactly the same, but Its why mobsters buy construction companies, hotels, bars, nightclubs. To launder illegal income and generate "losses" to keep it.
Unfortunately, the rich kids playing in the woods skews the cost scale on the poor kids trying to play in the woods too.
Mike your going to need to get one this year for a rightoff :D
It would be right to have the writeoff.
If i wrote off one forestry tire theyd send me an earned income credit.
Regardless, i will take a rightoff over a leftoff any day.
Man what a beautiful looking rig. i use a kubota tractor, logging winch and a logging trailer but it has it's limitations. I bought a backhoe attachment so i can make better roads. I want to buy my own woodlot because I am putting to much time into building roads for somebody else. Guess if I had that skidder I wouldn't have to build roads.
Yes and no, anytime you can make your turns are short and as fast as possible the production you can do but rock costs a lot of money.
Dude rock has gone waaay up in the last 2 years here. Shotrock now costs what 1.5" minus used to. I honestly believe its cheaper to put down geotextile at this point. I have a section of rock on clay 12" thick thats not as solid as the patch with barely three inches of 3minus over fabric. The stuff is a miracle. $500 a roll.
Posted by: DPrest
« on: Yesterday at 07:27:55 AM »
Thanks for the feedback, ehp.
Teakwood, I agree, its hard to justify. Here in the Maritime Provinces we just don't have the quality wood to run one steady and make the payments. Without driving your woodlots into the ground, you'd have to be into a prime run of wood.
Interesting considering they're installing crane loaders on these in Europe already. Says a lot of the quality of wood and wood prices that they've got over there compared to ours here (NB, NS, at least).
Tigercat DWC602 preview - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH1cBgjWfBo) .
Supporting payments on a $400,000 + skidder in selection treatments is no simple task.
Thats a nice machine, the perfect combination i would need. The video is just rubbish, no close up details, who cares about 10 birdviews(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/huh.gif), i get it, the guy loves his drone but the video is just bad.
the prices in europe aren't any different than in America unless you have oak. I can't opinion about the rest of europe but in Switzerland the wages are just so high that any price on a machine is justified. The absolute minimal wage for a woodworker is starting at 4500$/month and that is right after apprenticeship at the age of 20. after that it just goes up and up.
Aha! So that explains it. Entry level logging pays $10 here. So does equipment operator.
About a month ago i had someone ask me to climb and top some yard trees for $8 an hour. Said thats the goin rate.
8$ for such dangerous work(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/shocked.gif), that's just crazy
A good operator with experience will earn at least 6k+ a month. and that's on a 42h week. 8.25h per day, monday to friday. every hour overtime is payed extra.
4-5 weeks payed holiday a year, around 8-10 days of legal holidays (eastern, new year,...) also payed, insurance payed 50/50 (employer/ employee), a 13. salary end of the year, did i forget something..???
But: there is no coming late to work, no missing days, no half speed working, there is much pressure to get the job done, lots of responsibility and for a good boss you would do anything.
if your a bad employee you get fired real quick.
Here in CR i'm just glad if somebody shows up at work in the morning and we just don't loose another day. The salary isn't great around here but if you pay them more they won't show up for work anyways because they have more money know so they need to work less (https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
The good money is out here in the PNW in the fir I'm not sure what they're paying down in the redwoods in Southern Oregon and California. Here's the kicker a machine like that would never sell new out here you have to produce decent, our export fir is at 900, cedar last I heard was 1500+, and alder was going up past 900-1000 range all are real easy to find here.
Thought the same thing about the video. Somebody explaining the machine would be more interesting than listening to music.
World population grew about 1.5 billion in the last twenty years and now we have too many people chasing the same things and the fewer jobs due to automation.
Don't see what the point is taking on payments on a piece of equipment like that. You have to have steady work to keep up with all the expenses and have to be willing to travel and not be home for days.
That's just my thinking and I may be stuck with it. :D
For my region Its another unexpected consequence of the prescription painkiller epidemic.
Every pill and needle addict who can steal a handsaw and bum a ride is in the tree business. They drive around knocking on doors looking for that little $30 labor job. When you hire em theyre looking at whats behind your garage to grab later.
Switzerland has the highest wages of the world, that's why you see them Swiss people (i don't have the big salary anymore(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cry.gif)) vacationing all over the world because everywhere they go its cheaper than in Switzerland ! You can go wherever you want and you will find a Swiss traveling. and we are just 7.5 millions habitants of which 2mio are foreigners
But CR must have something Switzerland doesn't have, right. ;) ;D
Of course and i was expecting that question.(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
The freedom i have here and to be my own boss, that's priceless. I have different projects going on and i do so much different work around my place it never gets bored.
you grab a profession your not qualified in, study it a little bit, make some trial runs and pretty fast you do a better job than the locals.
i'm licensed construction worker (stone, concrete) in Switzerland, i could not work as a woodworker there. Here i make furnitures (and pretty nice ones also) i charge twice what the locals charge and i have a list of costumers waiting for 6-8 month to get their furniture because i'm occupied in my teak plantations now for 4 month. so they just wait because they know they'll get a supreme quality piece of furniture.
and then there are the girls and the beaches (https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
Quote from: mike_belben on February 25, 2018, 08:56:43 AM
Aha! So that explains it. Entry level logging pays $10 here. So does equipment operator.
About a month ago i had someone ask me to climb and top some yard trees for $8 an hour. Said thats the goin rate.
:o And one more. :o
That is minimum wage in the state of Maine. As I asked before,how much is fuel,price of a saw,equipment? I don't do that type of work,but I would probably just walk away from someone that said that to me. The area I live in has only the paper mill for a good paying job. Nothing here for money in this area.
I told him if i was ever gonna gaff up hourly, it wasnt gonna be for less than $30 so hide your stuff and call your favorite pillhead.
Another guy, neighbor of someone i did a job for, waits until ive bobcat loaded and chained down and driving away, to flag me down and say hey you wanna look at a "quick little job." Yeah sure what is it. Wants me to move probably 15 loads of woodchips across his yard to a garden. Its raining, yard is very soft and hes got a nice lawn and driveway i have to go over. I said i have to go home and get boards to drive on. I need the work, tell him $500. He says how about a hundred.
Buddy its a hundred for me to unchain it. If i wanted to waste my day and burn up fuel i got plenty of stuff to move around my own yard. I told him every pile would take 50 trips, what, no way.
Go rent one yourself and find out. It bet it takes you 3 days.
i respect that a lot mike! if they don't pay your price they can look for somebody else, period!
A job well done has its price.
the sad part is that there is another idiot that will practically pay you to do the job (yeah i meant to say that) its absolutely ridiculous. of course they are just bored and getting a free government paychecks (that we funded) and living off food stamps so this is just cigarette money for them.
Quote from: teakwood on February 25, 2018, 10:40:30 AMand then there are the girls and the beaches (https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
I knew there has to be more than snakes, scorpions and teak. 8)
You sure do some nice wood working. smiley_thumbsup
(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) Hahaha, there is always more in a man's life than just work!
Don't forget the beer and rum also!(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
TC 602 - Ohio in the snow - drone (168hp - approximately 28K lbs, 13 metric tonnes? https://www.tigercat.com/product/602-skidder/
Tigercat TV 602 Winch Skidder in Ohio - YouTube (https://youtu.be/l2uJoN0qarM)
If it's a promo video why do they haul just half a load??(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
The skidder's engine is probably still in the break in phase for a brand new engine. (A 'let's see how much this machine can pull' in the first few hours can have consequences later on)
i.e running the engine up to 70-80% only during the first 150 hours.
Breaking in a Diesel Engine - Wolter Group LLC (http://www.woltergroupllc.com/breaking-in-a-diesel-engine/)
i was always told to brake things in like your going to run it all the time i have rebuilt diesels mostly Detroit and ran them hard from the start and no trouble ;D
I built race engines full time for a few years. I can confidently say that it takes high cylinder pressure to push the rings out against the fresh hone tooth to file down the ring high spots so that the low spots are able to come up to the bore edge and make a full seal. You can only do this while the hone peaks last which is not long at all. Once theyre worn off the hone stops shaping the ring. Static ring tension is not enough, it takes load. Gentle breakins have been a sure source of oil consumption in my experience.
My race engines got broke in at the burnout box and would have 1% leakdown from that moment, getting looser therafter. Street motors id run through a cycle about 20 mins long. Lots of letting off hard to pull high manifold vacuum which would collapse the ring into the piston and spare some crosshatch on the intake stroke. Diesels dont have that option but i still break in with a pulsing heavy foot that gets progressively harder.
I dont know why thats still a conventional wisdom but i cant ignore evidence when i see it or im just lying to myself.
I tell ya after the run I've had with logging equipment in the last 6 months that new thing with warranty is starting to look cheap at the end of the month. The only questions are dual arch or swing boom... and where to find a quarter million dollars. :D
the bank they have millions you haven't got yet :D :D
Actually they don't, they make them out of thin air. :o
Does anyone have a price on the 602?
Quote from: lopet on March 09, 2018, 07:42:42 PM
Actually they don't, they make them out of thin air. :o
You hit the nail on the head there! The same applies for governments
Common rail engines often have fancy coated piston rings- mahle and others dlc (chromium nitride) coat the piston rings by pvd physical vapour deposition to improve fuel economy - reduced friction. Also probably because of wear caused by egr muck.
MAHLE Group | Piston rings with high-value PVD coating for high-speed diesel engines (http://www.mahle.com/en/news-and-press/press-releases/piston-rings-with-high-value-pvd-coating-for-high-speed-diesel-engines-503)
?? Does the Fiat engine in the Tigercat have coated rings? need to take it easy when the engine is tight in the first 20 hours so you don't ruin the piston coating coating?
Quote from: teakwood on March 11, 2018, 03:51:52 AM
Quote from: lopet on March 09, 2018, 07:42:42 PMYou hit the nail on the head there! The same applies for governments
I can go further and of the cliff and then the whole post gets deleted.
Folks should look up " Hidden secrets of money " It shows how the elite enslaves humanity.
I got out of debt a few years ago by selling some farm land and now I can do what I want and work when I feel like. 8) 8) Life is too short !!!
Sorry for getting of subject here.
there is no better feeling than being debt free!
Joke of the day: FPT fully supported by TC. Warranty , service, and... parts. As long as you don't ever need any internal engine parts or you can afford the 30k for a new engine you are good. If you demand the parts you can wait weeks while they order the parts from case and attempt to hide the case part numbers with stickers with TC parts numbers. Maybe they just need to catch up to their proclamation.
Tigercat DW 602 - France (might require a bit of translation)
Tigercat DW602 first impressions - YouTube (https://youtu.be/PS3XQxMyNeQ)
so why would a french canadian group sell a skidder in the EU but not in NA?
Easier regulations and that's where the market is most of NA is after a big skidder.
of course they can pull the other skidder it has bald tires ;D ;D
Quote from: Skeans1 on May 25, 2018, 07:27:34 AM
Easier regulations and that's where the market is most of NA is after a big skidder.
France and Switzerland make the U.S.A regs look weak and easy by comp. Which really only leaves the marketing aspect of it all. I'd almost buy a used one there in 4 years and ship it back here. The engine has to be a cummins or something like that so it will have EPA tags.
Their regulations are different then ours here in the states, take a new car diesel or even a diesel in a machine there's two versions because how the emissions are measured.
Quote from: nativewolf on May 25, 2018, 09:19:12 PM
Quote from: Skeans1 on May 25, 2018, 07:27:34 AM
Easier regulations and that's where the market is most of NA is after a big skidder.
France and Switzerland make the U.S.A regs look weak and easy by comp. Which really only leaves the marketing aspect of it all. I'd almost buy a used one there in 4 years and ship it back here. The engine has to be a cummins or something like that so it will have EPA tags.
i was in france last week. south of france as they call it. they still run lots of 2 stroke scooters
Quote from: Skeans1 on May 25, 2018, 10:22:30 PM
Their regulations are different then ours here in the states, take a new car diesel or even a diesel in a machine there's two versions because how the emissions are measured.
you know right you are. Our emissions regs have been much tougher than the EU (fraudsters). Didn't think of that. But the EU will be tightening those up since after the VW scandal it come to light that the car companies in europe were completely gaming even the weak regs. But for now, yeah emissions is an area the US has the toughest, best, real standards in the world. Tigercat's engine is going to have EPA tags though, all the big diesel's do (cummins, MB, etc).
If clean exhaust is the priority then natural gas (mostly methane) has around 80 percent less emissions than diesel. A natural gas engine's exhaust can be treated with just a catalytic converter( according to this)
Fiat Power Train engine - (methane engine in New Holland tractor part of case new holland etc Fiat subsidiary)
How much would it take to solve the logistics of natural gas powered woods equipment?
The New Holland Agriculture Methane Powered Concept Tractor (Full Version) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/WHjBw2HnR8E?t=4m18s)
It's not that they are weaker it's they measure the particulate differently then we do, they are already requiring final tier 5 next year. Last year we were at timber pro talking to Lee they were having problems with Cummins meeting all the new standards for both US and EU since they are so different in requirements. Is it an engine they use in anything else? If not then it may never see the tag and could never get imported.
Natural gas and gasoline are no longer used in equipment for a reason for a fuel they don't carry near the power per gallon of fuel.
Quote from: Skeans1 on May 26, 2018, 07:53:51 AM
It's not that they are weaker it's they measure the particulate differently then we do, they are already requiring final tier 5 next year. Last year we were at timber pro talking to Lee they were having problems with Cummins meeting all the new standards for both US and EU since they are so different in requirements. Is it an engine they use in anything else? If not then it may never see the tag and could never get imported.
Well how can I say this...up to 2 years ago the EU had regulations but they were not enforced at all. Manufacturers self certified and did it in clean rooms with unbelievable #s. In real world conditions, like EPA tests, the cars were xxx% higher in pollutants than they should have been. I could imagine heavy equipment would have been the same but I don't know. Now, 2 years post VW scandal all that is changing and when the EU actually regulates something it is tough, much less negotiation than with the EPA. Especially with diesel the EU was going for low carbon dioxide and the EPA measuring human health worries (particulate size, NOx, etc) NOx is the cause of smog, or a major one, and that's one of the huge gains we've made in USA. Go to Europe and in winter look at the window, you can't see more than a mile or two in a city, smog is terrible- horrible impacts on human health. EU gambled on diesel at the expense of local human health and now the people in EU have figured out they've been gamed, the bat crazy EU rules on emissions are coming around and will look more like the USAs. That said outside engine emissions the EU regulatory environment is tough.
Seems like a fitting time to throw out two pertinent sidenotes. The city of hamburg germany just passed a ban on older diesel cars, and the international maritime organization is forcing all container ships to upgrade engines to some new emission standard in the coming year or two.
Quote from: mike_belben on May 26, 2018, 02:07:38 PM
Seems like a fitting time to throw out two pertinent sidenotes. The city of hamburg germany just passed a ban on older diesel cars, and the international maritime organization is forcing all container ships to upgrade engines to some new emission standard in the coming year or two.
Yeah things they are a changing in the EU, especially the incredibly hypocritical Germans ( oh we are green oh we are green...but we pollute like it's 1939).
I got to see the new tiger cat 602.
What a machine. !!
It was massive.
I asked the salesman the price and he said 225k.
Not sure how I could afford the payment but it was really nice looking.
Quote from: Stoneyacrefarm on May 26, 2018, 06:29:28 PM
I got to see the new tiger cat 602.
What a machine. !!
It was massive.
I asked the salesman the price and he said 225k.
Not sure how I could afford the payment but it was really nice looking.
They would sell it to you here?
This is the best global emissions chart i could find, but the picture it paints to me is that we americans are the ones really getting squeezed by regulation.
Global Emissions Standards and the Russian Federation - Commercial Trucks of FloridaCommercial Trucks of Florida (http://commercialtrucksofflorida.com/global-emissions-standards-and-the-russian-federation/)
At what point do you lose because regulations have made the engine economy so bad vs is it's euro brother. Take say an eco diesel in the liberty at the time our version got roughly 30 the euro was double the mileage.
The point where the engine gets lowest BSFC (maximum work per unit of fuel) is in my mind where emissions should be frozen. Reduced economy just means we run the engine for X amount more hours/gallons to complete the job, Which isnt really in the spirit of "getting off foreign oil" or "reducing tailpipe emissions" as i interpret them. Just my uneducated opinion
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47446/5CF0E7E9-0161-41BA-B105-9FD9F795792A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1527957269)
and they have a real "european style" crane on them or just some sort of swing grapple??
Interesting machine
The pictures and videos I saw were a swinging grapple like we run out here, but they don't look as heavy built.
602 Skidder versions Europe
Charlier Swing boom with winch version
Palfinger crane with 2 cable winches, hydraulic back plate version.
http://www.lescognees.fr/actualite-exposants/1ere-mondiale-602-by-tigercat/
Plain cable 602 looks to do ok
Tigercat 602 Working in Indiana - YouTube (https://youtu.be/bMskkBHngXs)
the palfinger crane version looks very good with double drum winch. What size skidder is that to compare with, i didn't find a weight spec. But with 30.5/32" tires i would guess 15to?
Just the single drum is 14 tons + version this little machine weighs as much as a forwarder.
that video Riwaka put up looks pretty good. powerful machine pullin big hardwood
Quote from: Skeans1 on June 04, 2018, 08:27:01 AM
Just the single drum is 14 tons + version this little machine weighs as much as a forwarder.
I'd rather have a forwarder too. Speaking of which...no luck yet for me.
Tigercat DWC 602 - Clohse
Tigercat DWC602 impressions - YouTube (https://youtu.be/rEggRhuxiXM)
Tigercat 602 grapple version skidder
https://forestindustry.com/2020/02/20/tigercat-releases-602-grapple-skidder/?fbclid=IwAR0-iTFPPyO2nApAwUuqZA1LtWKaS6-D0NyAa7SK9uYtp2kwkbP785MBHG8 (https://forestindustry.com/2020/02/20/tigercat-releases-602-grapple-skidder/?fbclid=IwAR0-iTFPPyO2nApAwUuqZA1LtWKaS6-D0NyAa7SK9uYtp2kwkbP785MBHG8)
Tigercat's 635G SB band track bogie - swing boom version like the Morgan skidder.
Tigercat Swingboom Skidder, Chile 2020 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/mL5ByI3WbJA)
The only way I'll ever get one of them is with a huge government subsidy / grant. So do you think "fighting-climate-change-by-hiring-skidder-jockeys" will help my grant application get serious consideration? :D
Buddy, if you lived in the next prov. to the east you could very well have 3 or 4 of those skidders but here in Ontario Im thinking not much of a chance :D, I live right where TC is built and there is Zero of those skidders here , just way to big for our by law
Tigercat production suspended due to covid-19
https://www.tigercat.com/tigercat-and-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1JcDrYt1GfDTEvi57lPF9UKmOU6ZW26-oHOc2rtC1s9gZ36rqN60iYQ0k (https://www.tigercat.com/tigercat-and-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1JcDrYt1GfDTEvi57lPF9UKmOU6ZW26-oHOc2rtC1s9gZ36rqN60iYQ0k)
Tigercat 635 scarifier in Sweden
YouTube (https://youtu.be/P-4TL8SKyZ8)
I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Irving owns one of these for his 200 acre plantations. :D
Tigercat H series skidders
https://www.tigercat.com/tigercat-releases-highly-anticipated-h-series-skidders/ (https://www.tigercat.com/tigercat-releases-highly-anticipated-h-series-skidders/)
9 minute video in this
https://www.tigercat.com/product/635h-skidder/ (https://www.tigercat.com/product/635h-skidder/)
Nice! What a beast
Tigercat - Woodstock, Ontario - facility expansion project
Tigercat Facility Expansion - Woodstock Ontario - YouTube (https://youtu.be/p-z6EbzXRBA)
Just venting this morning, will do so on this forum without profanity, believe me profanity abounds here this morning. Tigercat has to be the worst machine manufacturer I have ever dealt with. 620D rear axle failure. Parts to repair are unavailable. There is a replacement that will require days worth of modification to install. What a joke.
the woodstock plant is 35 or so minutes from me , skidder plant is in Cambridge so an hour from me . One thing I will say is I went to their head office which is in Brantford to talk about a couple TC skidders up north and I ended up talking to the head guy of TC, he told me everything the guys selling the machines didnot on what was done to the machines , I found him to be a very stand up guy and they must be selling lots of machines cause one of the trucking companies that ships their machines is just around the corner from me and I see alot of new stuff heading done the road
So here is my TC story. The first Tcs were built for the southern market. These feller bunches were the best thing we had ever seen. The cylinders were second to none. The hydraulic oil stayed cool. Common parts were used across different models. They hardly used parts. Parts sales are big aspect of the equipment manufacturing business. IMO Tigercat realised this and also realised that they were not selling many parts. It started with the cylinders the new and improved cylinders were cheaper made and it shows. On of drive line components with zero parts availability, radiator mounts the size of silver dollars I guess it is just business and the goal should be to grow any business and increase profits. Again IMO they did this two fold by taking the money out of the machine and forcing complete component replacement on their customers. I guess I am just disappointed with the direction they took.
Every founder eventually gets replaced with "performance based" stock option executives and their bean counter friends. It'll make ya sick what they do for a new swimming pool or car for the mistress.
when I moved down here about 12 years ago I put in for a job at Tigercat but never got even a phone call but when I went thru the factory they offered me a job more than once
It's funny how an imminently qualified person, especially in the fields most of us on here are familiar with, can draw so little attention on a job application. Then you happen in to the right person and they are begging you to come work for them🤷🏽♂️
Tigercat dozer
"Tigercat is currently developing a purpose built dozer designed specifically for use in forestry applications.
The decision to develop this model was the result of feedback from logging contractors, who stated the unique requirements of forestry operations were not being met by construction industry focused dozer designs. This niche machine is currently in the prototype testing phase, operating in various earthmoving applications in southern Ontario. "
How about some pictures
Wonder how it'll be different than a kmc or 517/527 cat.
Considering Holt/ Caterpillar took how many decades? to go from
the grey Holt dozer to
Holt bulldozer - YouTube (https://youtu.be/EKx5qq2cKoE)
the Peterson TSK
Building the Peterson TSK - YouTube (https://youtu.be/y03rtE9SR50)
John Deere giving the 768 L-2 a bit of promo.
At a Glance | John Deere 768-II Bogie Skidder - YouTube (https://youtu.be/F-uRpf8oTrc)
What a beast!(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/shocked.gif)
Tigercat LSX870D - something to shovel log the burnt forest with or pre-bunch in grapple cable terrain.
Tigercat Releases LSX870D | Shovel Logger | Tigercat (https://www.tigercat.com/lsx870d-news/)
Quite a machine. One could probably even do a good bit of minor stumping and raking to build landings with that grapple in ground that isnt too rocky.
Cant do that with a knuckleboom or dangle jointed grapple.
An update for the 880 loader/ logger. The Tigercat 880E
Tigercat Releases 880E Logger | Logger Products | Tigercat (https://www.tigercat.com/880e-logger-news/)
A factory (from the Tigercat Paris, Ontario Factory) prototype TC 180 yarder is testing in Washington. (on TC's FB)
Hmm wonder if they teamed up with summit. Some of the posts on FB seem to indicate Eric krume might have been involved.
Tigercat LX830E Feller Buncher 'E" series doing the forestry show circuit? Looks like the top cover is angled off differently than the 'D' series.
Tigercat 1165 wheel harvester with Log-Max processor in Sweden.
Looks like the 1165 has been tuned up a bit by the Swedes, compared to the first prototype/ production model.
1165 Harvester Video | 1075C forwarder in Sweden | Tigercat TV (https://www.tigercat.com/video/1165-harvester-in-sweden-video/)
Tigercat 822E series feller bunchers and harvesters.
New features. top access for debris clearing, on engines. etc
Tigercat Releases E-series 822 | Forestry Products | Tigercat (https://www.tigercat.com/e-series-822-news/)
Always wondered about the engines in the new tigercat products. Are they rebranded Fiat Cummings or ?
Ponsse is about all I'm familiar with and they have Mercedes, Mercedes sold the heavy diesel line to RollsRoyce last year or the year before.
Tigercat uses FPT (Fiat Powertrain Technologies) engines. FPT is a subsidiary of Iveco. Iveco was separated out of CNH Industrial at the end of 2021.
Iveco Group N.V. announces publication of the Prospectus | Iveco Group (https://www.ivecogroup.com/media/corporate_press_releases/2021/november/iveco_group_nv_announces_publication_of_the_prospectus)
The Tigercat bulldozer bit heavier than a new D4, small engine for starters.
TCi 920 Dozer | Forestry Dozer | Tigercat Industries (https://www.tigercat.com/product/tci-920-dozer/) (135hp 4.5 liter, 35K lbs, 16 metric tonnes) D4 (130hp 4.4 liter, 30K lbs) D5 (170hp 7.1 liter- 42K lbs) John Deere 700 (135hp, 6.8 liter - 31K lbs base weight)
Tigercat TCi 920
TCi 920 Forestry Dozer - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ootiZy82S_Q)
Cummins to make Mercedes medium size truck diesel engines at Mannheim, Germany (2021)
Daimler Turns to Cummins for Medium-Duty Engines - Equipment - Trucking Info (https://www.truckinginfo.com/10137259/daimler-truck-to-hand-over-medium-duty-engine-production-to-cummins)
Ponsse appears to use MTU engines.
https://www.mtu-solutions.com/au/en/applications/industrial/agriculture-and-forestry.html
Forestry and Tractor Engines for Modern Lumberjacks - YouTube (https://youtu.be/t13iQ0eaiS4)
Ponsse media introducing new forwarder and harvester next Wednesday.
Yes, Ponsse runs Mercedes diesels. In fact I think there are only 2 different base engines. The 6 cylinder I think is called a 906, I don't know any specifics on the 4 cylinder. But they are offered in varying horsepower according to application
The new machines will be the Scorpion Giant harvester, which will be able to be equipped with the H8 head previously only available on the Bear and Ergo 8W. The new forwarder will be called the Mammoth, and it definitely looks like one. 25 metric tonneau capacity, and the big K121 crane. Another new feature that Ponsse is releasing that is a long time coming is the smart seat, it will rotate with the crane. Similar to John Deere forwarders but just the seat will spin instead of the whole cab. Makes a lot of sense to me, in fact I have always operated that way anyhow. I leave my seat unlocked so I can follow the crane, instead of locking it and getting a sore neck. It probably sounds like a tap dancer in the cab as my boots tap spinning my seat back and forth😁
Close to art-house vid of a new TC 890 delivery. The TC 890 has a woodsman pro 850 head. Nearly 1000 pounds heavier than a waratah 626 series II head. The 850's max saw cut is 36.6 inches.
The TC 890 is teamed with a T-MAR LC650 swing yarder and TC 875 loader with a Duxson grapple.
Rainy visit to NAB delivering an 890 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Oanf_pl5eWE?t=106)
Tigercat 822/ 830E walk around.
Some updates on these. Cab, covers.
Tigercat 822E/LX830E Walk-around - YouTube (https://youtu.be/LCZqXEqV6gQ)
Dang, what a nice and well designed machine, packed full with stuff underneath all those covers.
How much? 600k enough?
Quote from: teakwood on July 16, 2022, 07:48:56 AM
Dang, what a nice and well designed machine, packed full with stuff underneath all those covers.
How much? 600k enough?
Maybe in the US but here in Canada an 845E is pushing $650K here on the east coast and it is a smaller machine than the 822E.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13639/65B8D5B8-E3BB-4A23-B7E4-9F9AFF126DCD.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1658002012)
Guys that run mulchers on these and Tigers say it is one bad combo.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5B186086-7BB2-41B6-93C6-68ECB58637D1.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1658013495)
Tigercat 635H with swingboom (winch assist) downhill
635H Swing Boom Skidder - YouTube (https://youtu.be/7R9IPFnPJxA)
Quote from: Riwaka on August 12, 2022, 01:00:25 AM
Tigercat 635H with swingboom (winch assist) downhill
635H Swing Boom Skidder - YouTube (https://youtu.be/7R9IPFnPJxA)
I haven't seen anything done that way before, not quite sure what they gained there. I guess if I was onsite maybe it would make sense
Quote from: Walnut Beast on July 16, 2022, 07:19:02 PM
Guys that run mulchers on these and Tigers say it is one bad combo.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/5B186086-7BB2-41B6-93C6-68ECB58637D1.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1658013495)
I want that but with a fixed harvester head 🤤🤤
Tigercat has done the 570 head in a fixed version.
Story - cutting near roads and power lines.
Fixed 570 Harvesting Head | Between the Branches | Tigercat (https://www.tigercat.com/case_study/fixed-570-for-complete-control/)
Tigercat 822 (feller buncher boom) - fixed 570 head (27.5 inch max cut)
Tigercat 822D w Tigercat 570 Fixed Head - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ihwktFA-BcQ)
Ambitech - Tigercat mud bogging in Siberia
Tigercat 1055C forwarder in the mud soup
Форвардер Tigercat 1055С - YouTube (https://youtu.be/XjUubjtx8ss)
Tigercat 1165 - harvester with Waratah 480C
ОÑ,зыв операÑ,ора ХарвеÑÑ,ера Tigercat 1165 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Bo5oaHpMEhs)
Tigercat C640H Clambunk skidder, working near Rocky Ford, Eastern Georgia.
C640H Clambunk Skidder - YouTube (https://youtu.be/z0UCNXK8Vp0)
Tigercat 875E log loader. (Log Truck probably wants two extra trailers to help hasten payments)
Tigercat 875E Logger in British Columbia - YouTube (https://youtu.be/DqmYAv_h4To)
Sure seems like small dia. wood.
Euro Spec Tigercat (TCI) 612 skidder with the palfinger crane and dual winches.
Clohse group FB
Update Your Browser | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=593157442609457&set=pcb.593162622608939)
Tigercat 724G with 5702 disc head. Davisboro, Georgia
Duals front and back.
Tigercat 724G Wheel Feller Buncher - YouTube (https://youtu.be/aeAzmANBL64)
Yup that is about 40 minutes from my place.
Tigercat LH822D "Blade runner'
Not sure the blade/ dirt technique on the slope/ terrain 'would fly' with the environmental officials in many places.
🌲4K| TCI LH822D • Canadianloggers • LoggingExtrem • Slopework • HarvesterAction • J.Clohse • Drone🌲 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/5F084moTD_Y)
Tigercat 612 - dual winch, allegedly for selective cuts.
New Niche Skidder - Tigercat (https://www.tigercat.com/new-niche-skidder/)
That's a nice machine, finally the euro skidders are coming to the US market. Still a big machine at 18750kg / 41340lbs but only 2.85cm/ 9ft4" wide, which is a great width for thinnings
here is the link to the specs
612 Skidder | Forestry and Logging Machines | Tigercat (http://www.tigercat.com/product/612-dual-winch-skidder/)
Yep, it's nice to see a Euro style machine here. It is a big girl, though.
and it has center oscillation like we were talking about in the other thread!
I guess you would have to use it as a high grading machine to afford it, since it comes with "climate controlled cupholders" and a bunch of wifi/gps stuff built-in?
Step in the right direction, now make it smaller and bare bones ;D
Yes I'd like it more bare bones, to. But I'll say this- the times I did a lot of hand falling and bucking when running forwarder, it sure was nice to jump in that air conditioned cab and get to cool off while I picked up what I had just cut👍
A machine setup like the picture shoukd be very close to $500,000 in Canada once tax is added in so that is very closely and I know would not work in my area cause not enough real good timber to pay for it . In most cases with that crane part added on the price would be more than that . A new 620 was $403,000 here late last fall and thst was with no tax or sent to uour job site
I'm not sure if many of us could swing those kind of payments other than Barge and Barbender cause both are very rich unlike me cause I know I'm forsure not rich. Just going thru the drive thru at McDonald's and wondering if I can afford to Super size my fries is my limit
Putting me in the same category as Barge, you've got me all wrong ehp😂
Whenever I'm able to score a piece of equipment, it is because of what one banker referred to as "financial maneuvering", and not a wealth of resources 😂😂
As slick as it would be, I honestly don't know how one would ever afford a skidder like that. I'd think you'd have to be in nice timber and have 3 hand cutters. Most places you'd have to be putting 50 cords plus a day on the landing, I would think.
Personally, if I was handcutting (for the type of wood we have around here) I'd want a decent forwarder, and a cable skidder. I have the cable skidder, and if I was loaded like Barge I'd have the forwarder already, too😁
Barbender , you and Barge are such modest people trying to never really show your wealth . Just like Barge you both have tons of machines and newer one coming every week and your right . I'm jealous plain and simple
And we know ehp is equally as wealthy (and modest). :snowball:
With the price of chainsaws these days, ehp usually has more than my net worth riding around in the back of his truck😁
Good one barbender :D :D :D
😁😁😁
Boy your ideas just do not add up to real life ;D, that new skidder is pretty big in size and would be hard to drive around in the bush here , our trees are just to close together and I'm sure just like my buddy that has a 648 with 24.5 by 32 tires on it set the narrow way it spends lots of time upside down skidding , very unstable on its feet
No Rockstar here, just trading my soul for shiny objects, slavery hasn't went away, it's all colors now. My GF's full time again as an assistant manager at TSC, we get a 15% discount, that's the level of cheap I am 😆. They basically went thru and fired the ENTIRE store. Told my employer to leave me on 1 boat, 6on 2 off, escape from this place "Shawshank style".
Ed they aren't bad but yeah it's tippy, I've seen this one 4 wheels in the air. I've gotta have a "small" skidder, 648 is a razorblade compared to my 460-620, only reason it's coming back.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/received_1295310881414252.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1679373235)
Quote from: barbender on March 21, 2023, 01:03:30 PM
Whenever I'm able to score a piece of equipment, it is because of what one banker referred to as "financial maneuvering", and not a wealth of resources 😂😂
well there ya go BB. Your guy called it "financial maneuvering". That doesn't sound to bad. ;D The accountant that helps me cook up the books calls it "Redneck financing", one part money that's never enough, one part wishful thinking and one part dang lies. 8)
Barge , my buddy has his set up as narrow as it can go so 9 ft wide and has also sent me pictures with all 4 tires in the air 8) and said they are not nice to roll
That one's 9-10, it honestly fits very well in the tighter spots, not an 8'6" 440 but for a 648G3. Yeah that machine went 4 wheels up once, making a hitch and he caught 1 stump under each tire at the same time with the arch up and full, said it was quick.
It's not going to matter when you get your new Tigercat skidder any ways , I can only dream about having one
Tigercat 612 - grapple and onboard winch version.
5th May, 2023 Press release. For 'tight selective harvesting applications'......
Tigercat Releases 612 Grapple Skidder | Tigercat News (https://www.tigercat.com/612-skidder-with-grapple/)
Barge , where is my new 602 you bought me ? Stuff I'm cutting right now I pull 1 or 1 bigger tree and a smaller tree and I got to winch lots , So that new skidder you got me running 28 by 26 tires might pull 1 tree in the grapple ,
Tigercat assembly and Live-in Forest 9th Show, Weyerhaeuser Vail Tree farm near Rainier, Washington. (cable demos)
Tigercat Factory Tour and Pacific Logging Congress 2023 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ZhiAE2Tn_UU?si=qlWwp1rsAe289DNk)
Had a good talk with the tigercat guts at the show sense most of them live about 30 minutes from me . No more 602,604 or 610 cause they use the E series cab which is not made any more. . Now if enough call they may make a cable machine again but will most likely be a stripped down model to get cost down
Ed with the money you've got I'm surprised you didn't buy one of each. There was a new 604 single arch next to my poverty level skidder when I bought mine at CJs, alot of money for a small skidder. Emissions, insurance, all its going to be is big iron here soon, guys working for the mill.
The 612 machine is quite nice but it was setup at 112 inches wide but zero room for chains so need different rims then it's 116 inches wide . Tires were 30.5 by 32 which it needs cause it's pretty heavy . Barge your the only one making coin . I'm spending coin playing . The 612 was $400,000 USA. Plus tax but that's nothing for a man like Barge
ITPV's and Pure-Productions blended video footage of the recent Tigercat Demo Days Downunder.
The 7th Tigercat 180 Swing yarder off the line. Cost a lot of 'Pacific Pesos' (NZ alleged dollars)
Forestry Field Days 2023 with Tigercat and Ab Equipment - YouTube (https://youtu.be/prUMArh1fa4?si=JR-PALZoFwr7962B)
I see a cable 602 for $140,000 online , its a 2020 year . Thats getting closer to making sense than the other cable 602 same year for $235,000 , those boys are dreaming
The Tigercat 800 series loaders (can be used as shovel loggers, processor bases, log loaders, mill yard sorters/ stackers etc)
Tigercat 800-Series Logger Walk-around - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Ha23wMBej98?si=5l7nCMLmjxl-hPmQ)
I priced a new 602 grapple with winch here , $514,877 but I still had to pay for it to be shipped from Sudbury so about $2500 shipping, Nope , not going down that rabbit hole , at my young age of 60 that makes zero sense to me , I'm not young and energy like Barge
Tigercat mulch head for swing machines.
https://youtu.be/cfe76v6-yd4?si=78SBQ641uRGl-K3s
I'm so glad I'm not trying to own skidders right now.
Currently, our only nearby pulp mill went offline a couple years ago, and logging is broke in our area. The trees will be nice and big by the time it every could get profitable again.
Anyway, I'm younger than some of you, but already getting too decrepit. Working on losing weight, but yeah. Have to work my way into sales and writing to hope to do any better.
Tigercat 857 - high tail levelling logger to be shown at OLC.
https://www.tigercat.com/steep-slope-advancement/
Tigercat 573 processor - three wheel drive, 31 inch maximum cut, intended for 16 - 24 inch wood.
https://www.tigercat.com/new-triangulated-harvesting-head/
Tigercat also has a slope assist cable winch unit (did a teaser pic on FB recently).