sawmill blades

petefrom bearswamp · October 02, 2009, 05:48:38 PM

Has anyone had a problem with any particular brand of blades?
I have had 3 blades from Cook's break at the weld in the past two days
New blades out of the box.
The first one I sawed about 100- 150 feet with toward the end of the day and planned to use it for a period of time the next day.
relieved the tension that afternoon at shutdown and when i got to the mill in the morning it had broken at the weld.
The other two were working fine and just broke again at the weld. about 100 200 bd ft on each.
Since, so far no problems.
Pete

backwoods sawyer · October 02, 2009, 06:09:43 PM

I would give Cooks a call and let them know about it. They may even thank you for detecting a problem in there welds.
I have been running steady all summer with out breaking a band, and I keep about 50 saws in rotation, I change them twice a day, more if needed, but normally get 800-1,000 bft between sharpenings.

petefrom bearswamp · October 02, 2009, 06:32:42 PM

thanks,
i called today and they requested that i send the blade portions with the broken weld to them for analysis.
I have had plenty of bands break but only after several sharpenings and not at the weld.
I have never been able to get the BF that you and others say they get out of a blade.
when it starts wandering after 300- 400 bd ft, i change, and re sharpen. I use the de-barker religiously.
I mainly work alone and only do 600- 700 bd ft a day. (I am old and slow)
As an interesting point, I had a few blades of this manufacture perform poorly in the past and checked the set which varied about 10- 12 thousands from side to side.
My neighbor who saws for a living has had the same problem with WM blades i guess al manufacturers have problems with their machinery.
Pete

Tom · October 02, 2009, 06:54:36 PM

Cooks is a reputable manufacturer and I'm sure they will work with you. I've used their bands for years. Now and again a blade would break at the weld and, If several in a row, I would call and they would make it good, but the incidents happened so infrequently that I usually just charged it up to the cost of doing business and put on another band.

One thing about breaking at the weld is that it is usually the fault of the weld. If the weld were formed properly, it would be as strong as the rest of the band.

Tim will figure it out.

ladylake · October 02, 2009, 08:38:36 PM

I've never had them break at the weld but did have 1 box of 10 where every one broke after the 1st sharpening. Steve

Chuck White · October 03, 2009, 07:15:20 AM

I've only had two blades break in the weld. They were WoodMizer blades and the folks at Hanibal replaced them with new ones!
I don't remember for sure, but I think it had something to do with the annealing process, after welding!

CedarCountry · October 03, 2009, 08:03:09 AM

Well I no Woodmizer started using cheaper metal on the blades I was getting and what a 1 month hassel and money loss I had. I use 1 1/2 .055 and saw eastern cedar and I bought a box of new blades from WM a few months ago they no what I always get when I call and order them . I had no preveous blades they were at the sharpener guy. I put on a new blade and sawed 100bf or so and then the saw started cutting like crap . I thought I must have hit something so on went another blade same thing . I thought something got knocked outta line so I checked some things and everything seemed ok so tried another blade same thing.
I then called woodmizer told them what was happening they said we will send you some new blades gottem triedem same thing called WM again they said I need a complete saw linement >:( I told them that the saw never moves its spot and I havnt bumped it and it was sawing fine before I started on the new boxes of blades WM said its gotta be the saw so I did a complete realignment on everything and that takes alot of time then I double checked everything 3 times put a new blade on samething crap cuts >:(
I called woodmizer told them all I did to the mill they said maybe I need new drive belt well replaced it no difference. I told them from the start that I think its the blades WM said no no no its not the blades the part #'s are the same. I looked at the box very closely and notice a small logo with a bear on it that said silvertip and said to myself none of my other boxes have this logo. I then call WM again and asked them if they started making the blades outta cheaper metal he said no I then asked why is the a bear logo on the 2 boxs I got from them the guy said oh thats on all the boxs .

CedarCountry · October 03, 2009, 08:15:51 AM

Ah ran outta rant room.
Anyway the guy said that logo is on all boxs . I said no then asked him what the silver tip on the logo means he said let me find out OH THE SILVER TIP BLADES ARE MADE OUT OF CHEAPER METAL and that they must have put the wrong part# sticker on the wrong boxes they sent me. I was later told that when WM runs low somewhere on doublehard blades they will send out the silver tip instead and ofcourse there making even more money sending out the cheap metal blades at the same price. I was so >:( finally after a month of this crap they sent me the right blades and my saw cut great again. I called the guy back at WM and ranted at him and said not to ever send me those F---IN blades again. I see on the WM site that those silver tip blades are resaw blades too . They cut like crap . I wanted to drive up there and slap that guy but its to far and I had already lost a lot of money.

Banjo picker · October 03, 2009, 09:30:29 AM

Everybody makes mistakes from time to time...They made it right with you didn't they...Even the time lining up the mill is never a waste ...mine could always be tweeked a little...from time to time. Tim

backwoods sawyer · October 03, 2009, 06:26:41 PM

I take it you are dealing with the Portland branch.

;D

CedarCountry · October 03, 2009, 06:37:52 PM

Well if it would have been a mistake that would of been alright I guess but the thing is it was'nt a mistake. They were tring to send out cheap blades in place of good ones hoping no one would notice the difference. They knew what they were tring to do and so did I. I also lost a months worth of money so no they did'nt make it right its money I cant get back. Its kindda hard to line a mill out when its already inline

Banjo maybe your just a weekend sawyer but its my everyday day business and I have to have my mill runnin everyday possible certainly not down for a month ;)

CedarCountry · October 03, 2009, 06:41:18 PM

Quote from: backwoods sawyer on October 03, 2009, 06:26:41 PM
I take it you are dealing with the Portland branch. ;D

Missouri branch

Dave Shepard · October 03, 2009, 08:02:49 PM

Quote from: CedarCountry on October 03, 2009, 08:15:51 AM
Ah ran outta rant room.
Anyway the guy said that logo is on all boxs . I said no then asked him what the silver tip on the logo means he said let me find out OH THE SILVER TIP BLADES ARE MADE OUT OF CHEAPER METAL and that they must have put the wrong part# sticker on the wrong boxes they sent me. I was later told that when WM runs low somewhere on doublehard blades they will send out the silver tip instead and ofcourse there making even more money sending out the cheap metal blades at the same price. I was so >:( finally after a month of this crap they sent me the right blades and my saw cut great again. I called the guy back at WM and ranted at him and said not to ever send me those F---IN blades again. I see on the WM site that those silver tip blades are resaw blades too . They cut like crap . I wanted to drive up there and slap that guy but its to far and I had already lost a lot of money.

I don't believe for a minute that WM would substitute resaw bands for sawmill bands on the sly. It would do them more harm than good, and WM just does not operate that way. As you stated in your post, they said it was a part number mix up. That happens to any company.

CedarCountry · October 03, 2009, 11:20:01 PM

Thats fine believe what you want. I mean who am I and whats my word against a multimillion dollar business. I'm not tring to say they do it all the time or maybe it just happened to me. I'm not tring to rag on WM I believe they have one of the best mills and I have 2 Lt 40's and fixin to buy a lt70. I was just telling what happened to me . Thats just what I was told from someone at WM so I guess there lying aswell plus the guy told me himself that the logo is on all the new boxes which is not true. ;D And yes I know there names but I'm not sayin
Doesnt really matter to me anymore. I always inspect the box and blades to make sure I'm getting what I pay for. Guess my point is if you get blades that say silver tip you might as well not bother putting them on your mill because they suck. ;)

Banjo picker · October 03, 2009, 11:25:12 PM

Quote from: CedarCountry on October 03, 2009, 06:37:52 PM

Banjo maybe your just a weekend sawyer but its my everyday day business and I have to have my mill runnin everyday possible certainly not down for a month ;)

You assumed wrong. I have a Cooks AC 36 with a 62 horse turbo Perkins on it.. I have run it just about every day since I got it cutting RR ties ...till a bout a month ago when they quit buying...Tim

CedarCountry · October 03, 2009, 11:34:13 PM

Quote from: Banjo picker on October 03, 2009, 11:25:12 PM
Quote from: CedarCountry on October 03, 2009, 06:37:52 PM

Banjo maybe your just a weekend sawyer but its my everyday day business and I have to have my mill runnin everyday possible certainly not down for a month ;)

You assumed wrong. I have a Cooks AC 36 with a 62 horse turbo Perkins on it.. I have run it just about every day since I got it cutting RR ties ...till a bout a month ago when they quit buying...Tim

Well then maybe you taken a month off wont hurt you but it just wont cut it for me. I have logging,sawing,moulder equipment to pay for. The bills still come every month for me" broke down or not".

gmmills · October 04, 2009, 01:25:26 AM

Pete,

Tom's advice is right on the money. I'll bet they will replace those blades.

CedarCountry,

I can understand your frustration. I've been there before. Spent time going over mill alignment when it was a blade issue. With that said, I feel the need to clarify a few issues about the difference between WM Double Hard blades And WM Silver Tips. The current flat packed blade boxes have the Double Hard ,Silver Tip, And the new Razor Tip logos printed on them. I know this to be true because there are six new boxes of blades in my garage that I picked up yesterday at the Paul Bunyun show. All these boxes have Double Hard's in them. You can't just identify the blades by the logo's printed on the box.

The diffrences between these two blade types ,when new, is easily seen by eye. The Double Hard's blade body silver with heat treated, blue, tooth tips. The Silver Tip's Blade body is brownish in color with heat treated , silver, tooth tips. That how these blades got their name. Double Hard blades also have ID numbers on the blade body. The earlier Silver Tips that I have tried had no ID numbers.

You most likely just got a bad run of DoubleHard's. Find it hard to believe that the Silver Tips were substituted as a matter of company policy.

CedarCountry · October 04, 2009, 06:21:18 AM

Guys come on :P my posts better I said it was months ago this wasnt recent it happened quite awhile back in fact I have went threw almost 140 blades sense. I did send WM 5 blades back of the 2nd box at my charge because I insisted they check them because I knew my saw was inline and I believed it to be the blades. They then sent me the correct box without the logo and sure enough my mill sawed great again.
I had no previous blades to compare them to because like I said all my blades where at the sharpener guy but I had 20+ empty boxes to compare the semi new boxes to and all 20 something boxes didnt have that logo. You maybe very well correct that all boxes now have the same logos I wouldnt no because I've been using up my resharpened blades and hav'nt bought a new box sense. I have only 10-12 blades left outta that 140 or so blades I had sharpened so it was quite awhile back. I gotta buy a new box next week so I'll see what your talkin about .
Thanks for the info. They must have just put that silver tip logo on a few boxes before they started logoing all of them and I was the unlucky one to get some mixed logos and blades .

CedarCountry · October 04, 2009, 06:38:30 AM

Quote from: gmmills on October 04, 2009, 01:25:26 AM
Pete,

Tom's advice is right on the money. I'll bet they will replace those blades.

CedarCountry,

I can understand your frustration. I've been there before. Spent time going over mill alignment when it was a blade issue. With that said, I feel the need to clarify a few issues about the difference between WM Double Hard blades And WM Silver Tips. The current flat packed blade boxes have the Double Hard ,Silver Tip, And the new Razor Tip logos printed on them. I know this to be true because there are six new boxes of blades in my garage that I picked up yesterday at the Paul Bunyun show. All these boxes have Double Hard's in them. You can't just identify the blades by the logo's printed on the box.

The diffrences between these two blade types ,when new, is easily seen by eye. The Double Hard's blade body silver with heat treated, blue, tooth tips. The Silver Tip's Blade body is brownish in color with heat treated , silver, tooth tips. That how these blades got their name. Double Hard blades also have ID numbers on the blade body. The earlier Silver Tips that I have tried had no ID numbers.

You most likely just got a bad run of DoubleHard's. Find it hard to believe that the Silver Tips were substituted as a matter of company policy.

Woodmizer did verify that the blades I sent back were silver tip . They sent me the correct box with no logo then my mill sawed great. Thats just what I was told about the substitute thing. Who knows forsure the way the economy is most all places cut back on expenses to save money.

CedarCountry · October 04, 2009, 07:00:17 AM

I have used Woodmizer blades only sense 1997 except for 1 time I tried a box of Simmons redstreak "I think they were called" from Cook's . I dont even know if they make them anymore but anyway I couldnt ever get them to track right so I went back to WM blades.
I can say this about the WM blades and its a fact that during the first 3-4 or so years of sawing I could get a lot more BF out of a WM blade before sharpening than the current WM blades.
At some point WM must have changed to a lower grade of metal or something because I havent sense had a current blade out cut the older ones. :-\ Call me crazy but thats the truth. I guess some of you guys wont believe me because some of you are basicly calling me a liar but I have no reason to lie about anything. Probby best I just keep all my replies to myself.

Magicman · October 04, 2009, 04:02:01 PM

Quote from: CedarCountry on October 04, 2009, 06:21:18 AM
Guys come on :P my posts

I've gone back and read ALL of your post...... :(

Chico · October 04, 2009, 10:24:29 PM

Theres no reason a resaw blade wouldn't run on a headsaw in a bind There are a lot of good saws out there and like anything else they can get a bad batch sometimes They don't make the saws in most places they buy the mateirial and butt weld to length some punch the teehth also and some are laser cut I don't know much about WM I've sawn mostly on larger mills with Hoe Simonds Diamond and others but I can say everyone I've ever talked to about WM 99 % of them said all good about the Co The only one I've ever sawn on did a good I find it hard to beleive that they would risk their credibility by sending a prod that was subpar and always remember He may slap back ;)
Chico

Cedarman · October 05, 2009, 06:42:35 AM

Cedar country, when you have a blade that is sawing perfect, take the blade and tag it so that in the future if you have problems you can put that blade on the mill and see how well it saws. If it still saws perfect then most likely the new blades are the problem, if the perfect blade saws poorly, then most likely a mill alignment problem. But I have seen hardwood and some pine logs saw so squirrelly that they were best made into firewood.
Never had ERC log cause a problem unless it had junk in it.

bandmiller2 · October 05, 2009, 07:29:34 AM

Cedar Country,I have noticed some batches of WM that don't seem to last.The LT-70 I work with we use WM,my own mill I prefer timber wolf.May be time to checkout outher brands at least have something for a backup.Frank C.

ladylake · October 05, 2009, 08:28:36 AM

Nobody or no company is perfect all the time, it seems like a lot of big name companys have been using thier name to sell lesser quality products lately. I'm not saying Woodmizer cheapened up thier blades but they could have to save a few bucks on thier bottom line. I've been running Simonds for the last 6 years and I've gotten one batch of 10 that were junk, now they're back to normal. Steve