Anyone know of EWP loggers in New England

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Howdy, to the board!

I was wonderin' if anyone could put me in touch with someone dealing in Eastern White Pine logs in the northeast.  The intended use of the logs is milling/joinery for a planned timber frame home in Western Mass.  If that doesn't pan out, perhaps someone dealing in other log types will do: Hemlock, Red Spruce, American Basswood, Bigtooth Aspen (Poplar), Tuliptree, etc.

The logs should be about 26' in length -- logs will be bucked for shorter beams -- and about 15" DIB (or greater) at the small end.  Needless to say, boxed heart beams will require fairly straight logs.

Thanks in advance for any help or thoughts,
Bill 

[beenthere]

Do you have any upper limit requirement on limb size on the wh pine? 
In the CCC days, a lot of pine plantations were planted, and 20 years ago, there were pine plantation thinnings in N. Illinois wanting for a log market. Also, seems like the forum about a year ago had some requests on here for markets for wh pine grown in Indiana.  Closer to MA would suit you better, for sure.

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

I'm no logging expert by any means, beenthere, but the logs need to render boxed heart beams that will grade at 2 (or better of course).  Because weakness is inherent with large knots, I'm assuming that this means that the limbs on the logs can't be very big (perhaps 2" DIB or less). 

In short, I don't need clear logs by any stretch, but I do need them without huge limbs.  I hope this didn't confuse things further.

[woodmills1]

I deal in lots of pine but cannot deliver 26 foot lengths. 20 would be the max as long as I could put a few shorter ones on top.  I might be able to get you 26 foot logs can you get trucking?

[twoodward15]

I hate to say this, but there was someone on that other forum a few months ago that had a bunch of what you need.  BIG logs trying to get them sold.  They were still standing.  You might be able to go through the posts and find it again.  man I hate to send people there.

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

I responded to your PM already, twoodward (thanks again).

James, where are you located?  I see, by your flag, that you're in NH, but I was wondering how far up you are.  We're in the planning stages at this point, so I'm trying to price logs at this point.  Don't get me wrong, the home will be built come hell or high water, so we are definitely looking for logs.

As for the transportation of logs, I'll have to look into that.  Perhaps someone on the board knows of someone in that end of the business up here?

Thanks very much for the replies,
Bill 

[Sawyerfortyish]

Myself I try to steer everyone away from framing with white pine. It just doesn't have the strength of some of the other types of wood. Even a clear pine plank doesn't come close to hemlock or even spruce plank for strength. Popular would be a stronger. But this is just my 2 cents. We don't have much pine here we have mostly hardwoods.

[Raphael]

There's a log yard in Canaan CT on rte.7 just south of the Mass. border.
I can't remember the groups name but depending on where in western Mass you are doing this perhaps someone from there could drive down and copy the name and number number from their sign.  I'll be sure to make a note of it next time I pass by but can't guarentee when that will be.
 Most loggers I know of cut whatever species currently has a market among the tree's that they can get access to, so a log yard will know who's out in the pines this week.

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Thanks, Raphael and Sawyerfortyish.

I'd appreciate any info you can get on that, Raphael.  As for framing with EWP...being from the south, I've never raised a frame made out of it either.  I have, however, cut traditional joints into EWP and, if it's clear, it's hard to imagine any other species being any easier to work with.  I use very high quality Barr chisels, but that only accounts for part of it -- the White Pine is simply a dream to cut joinery into.

But if that doesn't sound convincing, here's a quote from the timber framing guru himself, Jack Sobon: "If I was limited to only one wood for all parts of a house -- frame, floors, windows and so on -- Eastern White Pine would be my choice."

Thanks again for the replies,
Bill 

[Camp Run Farm]

There is a site on the internet, Wood Planet, I have used them to find logs.  Seemed very helpful and I got a couple of very good contacts, not sure if they do anything in your area.  You tell them what you are looking for and they have a data base of people that can supply you, the people contact you.  It worked well for me, I was looking for nice hemlock saw logs and had two really good contacts.

Ed

[bull]

Try Joe Smith @ Mt Wachusetts community college Gardner MA
  WWW.MWCC.MASS.EDU
The Forest and Wood Products Institute @ MWCC.  Joe has a list of all area Companys in the buisness and will have someone that can help you anywhere `in the state.
                                                                                                        Bull

[woodmills1]

I am in Hudson NH just outside of Nashua in the southern part of the state 2 towns north of lowell ma.

[Craig]

Greetings

You could try WD Cowls in North Amherst, MA
http://www.cowls.com/

The buy alot of pine, hemlock and oak timberstock. You might be able to purchase logs or milled stock from them.

You could also try James Thompson Native Lumber in Hopkington RI. I have done business with them and they are good to deal with. I know a little while ago he bought about 500mbf of standing hemlock. He would probably sell logs out of that and he also does alot of beams out of pine as well.

If you are interested in contact info for thompson email me at craig@csmforest.com and I could give you contact info.

Craig

[hondo]

Call your extension service and get a hold of your county forester, he should be able to put you in touch with some loggers. You'll probably have to go right to the landing and tell them what you need and see if they can cut them for you. I am located in central NH on the CT river and am cutting some big hemlock right now that would work for you. Trucking it there would be expensive.
Do you know anyone down there with a portable mill? They usually know of a source of logs.

[SwampDonkey]

Hemlock and spruce were used in  my area for barns. Some houses may have pine roofing. We have lots of fir in my area, but they would not commonly use it for buildings. In recent years, I've known some people to use aspen for roof strapping. Fir of the size your looking for has alot of pocket rot or ants into it.

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Thanks very much for every reply!   

I'm still monitoring this post closely, so please keep it coming. 

By the way, Bull, I did contact Joe Smith at the college and he was very helpful with contact information.

Have a great one,
Bill

[Engineer]

Not too many people pulling EWP in my immediate area, what I've been told is that the market isn't there right now.  I don't know one way or the other.    I will ask the guy I work with (he's a forester and a member here, but I doubt he'll see this thread) if anybody is cutting EWP in Western MA. 

I built my frame out of EWP and it was great to work with.

[Raphael]

We've all overlooked the obvious source.
Why not ask Jim Rogers (moderator of our Timber Framing board).

[Ed_K]

 Where are you going to build? I have two lots curently with w/pine. you need to have a list of what you need. Also I belong to the Massachusetts Woodlands Co-Op. They are selling green certified timber stock along with flooring & moldings.

[woodmills1]

Yes you need to give us a cut list.

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Thanks again for the posts 

I'm glad to read of another EWP framer here, Jon.  I've read a few posts that seem to indicate some reluctance when it comes to this species, but that's all I've cut joints into since my arrival and it seems ideal for the job.

That's a great idea as well, Raphael, but Jim is located in the eastern part of the state.  Nevertheless, I am in contact with him on a regular basis.  In fact, there's a chance that he will be an integral part of the design phase of the frame.

Great to hear from Ed and James again as well.  Please keep in mind that I've been heavily involved with locating the land for this project for months.  As I indicated earlier, this foray into importing logs for the frame is an attempt to explore an alternative to harvesting my own logs.  Further, I've never had to purchase logs before, so I'm learning as I go when it comes to this aspect of the job.

As I understand it, there seems to be an issue when it comes to the length of the logs I'm researching.  That is, 26' EWP logs present a transportation issue for many loggers in the area.  I realize that, if I had a cut list for the frame, I could be more specific about exactly which log lengths (and the quantity thereof) I require.  However, this project has always been predicated on the parcel of land itself and, more importantly, the amount/species of timber it can yield.  This is a common approach to timber framing your own home.  That is, the land -- and the trees on that land -- commonly dictate much of the design.

Considering that locating a good parcel has been a difficult task, I may have to shift things around a bit and consider a design before I find the land.  However, I have to admit that writing the preceding sentence made me a bit queezy, and that's because there is certainly an element of [potentially expensive] risk involved in designing a frame without knowing a lot about the timber you'll be milling  ;)

By the way, Ed.  We've been searching mostly in towns to the west of Holyoke: Chester, Worthington, Huntington and Blandford.  This is where our best prospects have been, but, obviously, that's only an indicator of where we might end up building.

Have a great night,
Bill