Fransguard 4000

Jim · April 23, 2006, 09:14:48 AM

A couple of years ago, based on advice I got from many of you, I acquired a slightly used Fransguard 4000 which I intended to use on a 60hp Massey Ferguson 4wd. (originally a 40hp Kubota)
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=5286.0

Never got around to using it

so it sat idle inside for the last couple of years. Until a few days ago that is. Finally got it out of storage, hooked it up and set off to haul in some big maple tops.

I was with two buddies and things seemed to work very well on smaller tops but when we tried it on some bigger ones, the top just wouldn't budge. Both my buddies (retired school shop teachers) thought the clutch was probably worn and required replacement. I wasn't so sure and felt we might be exceeding the winch's capability.

I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this as well as the safety aspects of pullings top with a logging winch. My main purpose in getting the winch was to drag some 12 inch cedar logs out and it will obviously do this with ease. I was just trying to help my neighbour out with the tops.

Sawyerfortyish · April 23, 2006, 09:28:30 AM

Do you have a book on it? I had a farmi winch and had to adjust the clutch on it. Once I did that it would pull the front of the tractor up in the air and over top on itself if I let it. The farmi dealer told me he had never had a worn out clutch on any winches he had ever sold. They just don't wear out. Try adjusting the clutch.

Jim · April 23, 2006, 10:25:01 AM

Thanks for your comments Sawyerfortyish. I do have a small manual and we did try adjusting the clutch but it seemed it was already properly adjusted. (Loosen two holding nuts and then adjusting until resistance starts then back off a fraction).

Corley5 · April 23, 2006, 10:55:12 AM

We've got a 4000 and it'll pull. It'll drag a 7,000 lb tractor backward til there's a big pile of dirt in front of the winch. If possible we'd set it against a stump ;) I winched some big maple tops back into the woods from the hayfields with it. Maybe all it needs is a little more use then try adjusting it again ???

Sawyerfortyish · April 23, 2006, 11:16:57 AM

I agree with Corley. I winched a semi and trailer loaded with logs up a hill out of the mud with mine. Also winched whole rock oak trees tops and all up a hill to the top then bucked the top off. All the rock oak were 16"dbh and bigger. It was kind of scarry tho I would park the winch against a tree and it would still pull the front of the tractor off the ground and I had 1000lbs of weight stacked on the front

.

Reddog · April 23, 2006, 01:13:29 PM

I have a Farmi 601. So may not be the same. But here are a couple things I have noticed. 1. To get max pull, I have to pull hard on the control rope. 2. It pulls harder with the engine running closer to 540 PTO speed.

Ed_K · April 23, 2006, 01:23:18 PM

I wondered about the clutch on the 2800 series, after 3yrs of heavy use. When I got it apart it didn't appear to be worn much at all. Its a real pain to put back together, so don't do it unless it won't pull at all. My only problem with it, is wearing out the drive chain, one per yr.

Jim · April 23, 2006, 06:37:50 PM

Great comments guys.

You have confirmed that the winch should be able to pull those tops and it is just a question of adjustment: be it the clutch or the drive chain. Hadn't thought about the drive chain as a possible culprit.

Will report back when there is success.

Corley5 · April 23, 2006, 07:35:39 PM

I'll second that about pulling hard on the rope

The harder you pull the rope the more the winch will pull. Your drive chain shouldn't be a problem with as little use as yours has had. If it was slipping you know it and you'd need new sprockets too. ;)

wiam · April 23, 2006, 08:00:40 PM

I have a Tajfun winch that is rated for about 8,800#. It will pull a 10,000# tractor backwards. How big are these tops? ???

Will

Woodhog · April 23, 2006, 08:10:30 PM

I use a similar capacity winch almost everyday, a Norse 400 now norse 450 and it will pull down a Red Spruce about 50-60 feet high and 24 inches on the butt that is hung up in other spruce trees with no problem..but you really have to lay on the rope, and hope the cable doesnt break, my machine weighs about 10,000 pounds with all the added steel and weighted tires it will pull the whole outfit backwards until the winch blade fetches up on something solid, sometimes digs out quite a ditch...

thecfarm · April 23, 2006, 08:34:13 PM

I have a Norse on a 40hp Ford and it will pull more than I can haul.Just like everyone is saying,it should winch alot.I found out too about having to rev the motor up more on a big load and pull hard on that rope.Good luck.

JN68 · April 23, 2006, 10:50:22 PM

HI guy's;; i have a fransguard 4000 and its' one a 70 4x4 massey and like some have already said it will pull the tractor if the tree get's hungup, the main arm on the cluth is too be strait up at full pull. The chain might be slipping around the sprocket's but i have broken the chain before that has happend. May be you were like me and keep everything greased and oiled , did that too mine once and got some on the clutch. It slipped for some time and buy the time i founded the oil was washed off from the rain. Good winch had it for 15 years and one chain,brake band and two cables ;D james

Jim · April 24, 2006, 07:27:14 AM

Quote from: wiam on April 23, 2006, 08:00:40 PM
I have a Tajfun winch that is rated for about 8,800#. It will pull a 10,000# tractor backwards. How big are these tops? ???

Will

The trees were cut 2 years ago and are now very dry. I wouldn't say the tops are overly large. They came from trees with about 24" at the butt. My neighbour is able to pull some of the smaller ones with his ATV. Silly man

maple flats · April 24, 2006, 09:32:28 PM

I used to be a dealer for Fransgard. The V4000 will pull 8800#. Most likely you have some rust built up on the clutch. Use will fix that. Next, when you pull the clutch rope pull it all of the way to have the pull arm tightening the clutch straight, many people do not pull hard enough. If it slips on a load that an ATV can pull something IS wrong. Double check clutch adj. If it hasn't been used much the best thing is to just use it, let it slip a little which will clean up the clutch face but do not let the clutch face get hot, pull a couple seconds, let off to cool and repeat several times. After the clutch is right as others said, it will drag the tractor back til the blade hits enough resistance, even with good parking braks on the tractor, will even tip tractor if you pull at a sharp angle to either side, try to pull as straight as possible. In 10 years of selling and servicing these I never saw a clutch worn out, but did see one main shaft bent from winching too tight and locking drum and towing large tree length that did not have enough slack to allow it to pivot on a turn thus bending the drum shaft, leave the cable with some slack when towing out. If you try these to no avail send me a PM and I will go look at the owners manual to refresh my memory some more and might be able to come up with more info.

slowzuki · April 25, 2006, 12:59:54 PM

An 8000 lb pull farmi on our 6500 lb kubota + 3500 lb of hitch caught on stump = tires in the air

You have to pull HARD when you have a big hitch on. Like need some knots in it to grip hard enough.

Jim · April 26, 2006, 04:37:13 PM

Of course, you were all right on with your suggestions. 8)

It was the clutch adjustment. Kept on playing with it until it started to drag the tops in effortlessly.

Great fun and many thanks.

Some pictures for your interest. The guy in the red suit is my neighbour. I am the other old dude.

[img width=450 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/Chain-attached-to-log.jpg[/img]

[img width=450 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/Operating-winch.jpg[/img]

[img width=450 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/successful-pull.jpg[/img]

maple flats · May 14, 2006, 07:28:07 PM

Where is the steel mesh guard? If the cable breaks it will take out something on the tractor. These come with an expanded metal guard above the unit. If you don't have one either get one made or order one from a dealer. Many farm equipment dealers can get one. In the northeast it is distributed by Woodhouse (headquartered in Springfield Mass, or is it W Springfield?, any dealer who does business with woodhouse can get it. That cable in case of a break under full load WILL DO MAJOR DAMAGE OR EVEN CAUSE DEATH, use the guard.

Sawyerfortyish · May 14, 2006, 07:41:25 PM

Mine had a big pipe frame with steel mesh over top the winch and I made use of it. I didn't feel safe standing along side. A 3x3 piece of steel mesh and some angle iron will make a big differance if that cable snaps and flys back at you.

Jim · May 15, 2006, 10:42:05 PM

I thought it was missing the wire mesh protection that I have seen on other models. I will definitely get my dealer to order one.

Many thanks for mentioning this.

maple flats · May 17, 2006, 06:55:53 PM

Actually the manual says to pull from the side like in the picture above but at full length of the clutch rope away and pull on the handle supplied, this will put the operator about 8 feet off the side of the winch and not with one foot on the winch. The guard is if a cable should snap while towing the log(s) out of the forest, if you use the winch cable to pull with and not the chain hold notches at the top of the blade. It seams more people pull with the cable than with the hook notches because it is faster.

thecfarm · May 17, 2006, 08:37:09 PM

That's what I was told when we bought our winch,stay away from the tractor and pull the rope at full lenght.I almost always leave the logs hooked up to the cable.If I used the notches,some of my logs that I haul would be plowing the ground up.I realize this may not be the best way,but it works fine for me,so far.

maple flats · May 20, 2006, 04:25:59 PM

I also leave them hooked to the cable. If you don't and you get stuck you must use the winch to unhook each before you can drive away to higher ground and re winch, iy you are on the cable, just release the brake, drive and re-winch then drive away. It is just that Fransgard does not reccommend that way, might be for some risk factor they want to avoid, do not know why.

Ed_K · May 21, 2006, 11:28:40 AM

The risk factor would be a bent or broken drum shaft. You don't want to look back and see the log totally off the ground hanging from the winch backplate.

maple flats · May 25, 2006, 08:34:42 PM

Yes that can bend the winch shaft if drawn too tight so that it can bind as you snake your way out. Someplace in an earlier post about when I was a dealer I mentioned that I had to repair a V4000 that had such damage. I do not pull the log/logs that close. I pull just close enough that I can raise the leading end as I drive out, this usually means at least a foot and a half of slack, if several logs it might be 2' slack and as I tow I check the log as i make the first few turns to make sure it won't bind, after that I usually don't look back as often.

Jim · May 26, 2006, 07:27:32 AM

My local dealer says they would have to airfreight a guard from Denmark which would be cost more than the guard is worth. The dealer has taken an instock guard to a local blacksmith who will give me a quote on making up a copy.

David_c · May 26, 2006, 11:25:50 AM

Why wont he sell you an in stock guard? Also why didn't one come with it?

Jim · May 26, 2006, 11:31:08 AM

He says he can't sell me just the guard as it is part of a unit and he doesn't want to separate.

I bought the winch used and there was not one with it. It was a repossessed unit.

maple flats · June 11, 2006, 07:50:45 PM

The JS Woodhouse can get a guard in their next container from the mfg. and it would not cose air freight. Contact a farm dealer and ask them to contact Woodhouse for the part. This is if a local welder can't make one to suit you. It is however not a high tech item and most any welder should be able to do it. If this is the case make sure it is at least as sturdy in every respect as what your dealer has from Fransgard. The frame is high grade steel and the mesh is called expanded metal, must be the same or heavier expanded metal to offer proper protection.
Dave