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Timberjack 225 Tranny removal

Started by David-L, August 08, 2014, 06:08:39 AM

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David-L

Wondering if removing the tranny-fwd-rev with bell housing all together is the easiest way to remove everthing to get the tranny out. Its' popping out of gear quite a bit now. plan on pulling the top cover today to take a look but thinking it is probably something in the tranny itself. it pops out under load pulling a hitch when I let off the throttle a bit. Advice is very welcome thanks.

                                          David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

Bert

David,

Cant help much with the removal but hoping you get some good advice. I have a similar problem with mine. It jumps out of third.  I pulled the top cover and the corners are rounded off the third gear. Im seeking a tranny at this time and using it as is. Im pretty sure you remove it by unbolting the bellhousing from the engine and take out as one but I could be wrong. Ill find out first hand at some point. Your not alone anyhow!
Saw you tomorrow!

timberlinetree

Our log truck would pop out of gear unless we used some good old farmer technology. Once it was in high gear you would attach the small chain to the hook welded on the shifter problem solved. I don't think this will help you out but thought you might like the idea. Good luck with the repair.
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BargeMonkey

 We had the engine, radiator,  pump and trans laying on the ground in 3 hours in my 230. Unless these guys know a better trick thats the best way I know, transmission isnt to bad with the engine out. Getting to the bottom bellhousing bolts is the fun part.

Timberjack_395XP

That and lining up the fiber gear is fun too

loggah

The easiest way is to unbolt the reverser from the bellhousing. did you check the nylon inserts in the shifting forks? if they are worn or missing the transmission wont stay in gear.
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

David-L

Well, Decision is to pull the cover as Loggah said Check fork nylons, and then if it has to come out, rev-- back is coming off. Can't see grabbing the motor out to do the tranny. Thanks for the input.

                              David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

tj240

most timberjacks use a new process tranny i think it is the same as old fords, with no reverse, i ve seen it done bell housing attached with a come along slung in the cab
work with my father[jwilly] and my son. we have a 240 tj 160 barko[old] works great three generations working together

BargeMonkey

 Swentons in Lake George will come pull it, fix it, and put it back in cheaper and faster than you think. Throwing the idea out there. I was very impressed with them when they did my forwarder engine.

loggah

About 20 years ago,my buddy lost a clutch in his 230 when he was working about 30 miles west of Conifer N.Y., he and i left Campton  drove 6 hrs ,changed the clutch in about 2-3 hrs and then drove the 6 hrs back home ,made a long day but the clutch change was the easiest part of the job !!!!! ;D I got to tell you where he was logging i saw the best hard maple and cherry i had ever seen,5 logs before the first limb. I believe it was on the old Emporium lumber co land,He was subbing to Bruce Haynes at the time.
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

OntarioAl

David-L
X1 as per tj240.
I have been to this rodeo several times over the years.
If the bell housing /transmission has ever been removed by someone in the know the one or two most difficult bell housing bolts near the 6 o'clock position are left empty.
The come along attached at the balance point makes this a straight forward wrenching job.
Like loggah says 2-3hrs. with help I have done it many times (but not the first) in 3hrsby myself.
Hope this helps
Al
Al Raman

Ken

Might not be a bad idea to check clutch and pressure plate when you are in there.  Make sure you have a line up shaft to help with reinstalling.  Pretty basic job.  Done it myself before but 2 people is much easier.
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Corley5

We just did a clutch job on a C4D Tree Farmer.  We pulled the engine and transmission as one unit.  No radiator to remove with a Deutz  :)  Replaced clutch, pressure plate, throw out and pilot bearing along with having the tranny rebuilt.  We were about four hours pulling it and slightly more on the assembly but not too bad.  Getting the clutch adjusted and finally rebuilding the clutch linkage took the most time.  I also had the flywheel surfaced.  It had some pretty serious heat cracks in it that required close to an 1/8" of grinding.
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David-L

Pulled the cover today and did not see anything wrong in the cover ,shifting rails or poppet balls and the rails seemed to function in the detents, also the plastic nylons were there. There seemed to be about 1/2 " play on the  top shaft back and forth on the syncronizers. thinking maybe something is missing and might drain the oil and pull the cover again and use a magnet to see if there is anything in the bottom. Other than that I will be taking it out over the weekend to bring it for a professional to diagnose. It is a pain in the butt when it pops out , so might as well deal with it.

                                                  David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

loggah

There shouldn't be that much play there, is the snap ring in the bearing on the mainshaft?  are the pins loose  in the syncro ring? sometimes they break loose from the hub. im sure if you pull it apart you could figure it out ,its not rocket science. I worked on plenty of them in Thiokol snowcats years ago we had 4 machines with chrysler 318 industrial engines, reverser and new process 435 transmissions. We used to get our parts from Depetrio kay out of Boston,not sure if there still in business or not ,this was 40 years ago !!!!!
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

doghunter

I pull the air cleaner, panels over trans ,clutch linkage,  short driveshaft ,grease hose to throw out bearing, then shovel and rake out all the trash I can, pull the shifter out of top cover, take out all the bell housing bolts except for two near the top. run a chain from the arch over the center of the cab put my chain hoist on that and down to tranny. take out the last two bolts and slide it back not easy but much easier than the 440 jd we once owned 2 hours out if no problems. just be patient going back put it in gear and turn the output to line up the splines good luck   

Corley5

My Tree Farmer had a lot of play in the shifter.  The play was due to wear in the shift tower of the top cover.  The holes where the two pins go in that hold the shift lever were wobbled out.  The cover needed replacing.  This is an NP 542 tranny.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Neilo

On the NP441, mainshaft end float should be controlled by the rear bearing and the spacer behind that. These are accessed be removing the oil seal retainer.

If it is not the mainshaft, but gears on it, they are retained by various clips along the mainshaft.

I would think if it was the mainshaft end float, it would jump out of all except 4th.

Neilo

David-L

Thanks for all the info, The pins are loose on both synchronizer pin assembly's, really could not see a snap ring for the bearing, Either way I will be taking it out and checking it out as I do not want to wreck other parts other than whats worn. It will be good to get this fixed as I have quite a bit of work ahead. Log length cordwood cannot be created fast enough to keep people happy. Sounds like rain is on the way for us in Mass, they are saying 3" maybe. Good time to get this out and dealt with. thanks everyone for the good advice.

                                           David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

Neilo

The snap ring Loggah is talking about is on the rear of the mainshaft bearing - outside the casing -  and underneath the rear output bearing retainer/oil seal casing. If it isn't there, the bearing can move in the case.

Anyway, it sounds as if a rebuild is in order.

David-L

Neilo, If that snap ring was gone would the bearing have room to move enough to create this play and then the jumping out of gear. Is it worth it to pull the yoke and the retainer to see? Any other way to tell if that snap ring is gone other than the removing the bearing and seal retainer.

                         David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

Neilo

David, if you have the top cover off and pull/push the output yoke, you may see the bearing move. I don't know how much you can see behind the 1st gear.

If you do pull the yoke and retainer off, don't pull the mainshaft too far out, or the rollers between the mainshaft and the reverser shaft may drop out and you would probably have to pull it apart to get it together.

David-L

Transmission is out and took me alone from start 5 hrs and yes the lower bolts were quite some tough to get out on the bell housing. This machine is pretty straight and by the looks this bell housing, etc had never been removed. The pressure plate was made by a company named Rollaway Corp in Syracuse, NY. The serial # on it was 1451-76. Curious if this might be a 1976 original unit. Anyone ever here of this company. One thing was there was no yoke nut holding the yoke on. needs a disc and psi plate as the springs are loose and the disc is on its way. The machine is a 1978D 225. Thanks everyone for the good advice.

                                                David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

loggah

Im not sure about the pressure plate assy,but timberland machines the Timberjack dealer back then used a Lipe clutch for replacements,they had ceramic pucks on the disc instead of an asbestos style lining,they are a bit pricy!! Without a nut on the yoke you would get some play in the top shaft. Don
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

David-L

Loggah, that is exactly the disc ( puck style ). I have a feeling I should have found the right pitch nut and tried that before I took the tranny out. It is being looked at just in case and the good part is the clutch is close to the end so better now then in the middle of winter.  I see now that if the yoke is not secure and moves the top shaft will have movement also. Really haven't run it hard with it doing this so chances are the tranny is fine. Can't find the nut anywhere in the pan though. A mystery. Anyone know the nut size and pitch for the tranny output shaft for this TJ225 NP 441 tranny.

                                   david l

               

In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

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