353 Running Backwards

David-L · April 03, 2015, 06:27:14 AM

Was winching in a hitch on the move yesterday and the terrain was tough and didnt' have rpms up and the engine stalled and next thing you know it's running backwards with exhaust coming out the air cleaner. Pulled the blower kill lever the fuel shut off to the governor and killed it. Let it sit for a minute reset the blower flap and started it up and all was good. ? can this do damage if this happens for a short period on this 53 series Detroit. First time this has ever happened. Ran it all afternoon and no problems. Curious. Thanks.

Brleclaire · April 03, 2015, 07:09:01 AM

No it won't hurt it if its just for little bit. This would happen to are old 501 pettibone that had a 353 in it usually when pushing stringers in a pile. Engine would bog down and just as it would stall you push in the clutch it would start running backwards. Just pull the fuel shut off and engine would quit running and restart and go.

Dave Shepard · April 03, 2015, 07:45:57 AM

Shouldn't hurt it if it was brief. There's no oil pressure. I had this happen with my Kubota winching a big log. It stalled, and when the log settled back it pulled the winch cable like a recoil start. :D A lot of black smoke came out of the air cleaner and the oil light came on. I was on the seat, so I shut it right down.

treeslayer2003 · April 03, 2015, 09:16:14 AM

iv seen it happen to 6 and 8v 71s never seen it hurt one. will wake ya up lol.

OntarioAl · April 03, 2015, 09:37:32 AM

David
I had it happen several times over the years same story each time, too slow on clutch pedal, stall the engine, machine rolls back , spins engine in reverse and voila! its running backwards.
Immediately pull fuel shut off to kill the engine then restart it and continue working.
It does make a very distinctive noise when running backwards ;D
Al

BargeMonkey · April 03, 2015, 10:11:55 AM

As long as they dont run long enough to puke everything out of the pan your ok. :D We had an echo saw yrs ago that would run backwards every once in a while, dealer didnt believe it till it did it in front of him, called the factory and they wanted that saw back asap.

sawguy21 · April 03, 2015, 01:20:35 PM

I have seen saws do that if the timing is close to TDC. We just reversed the chain and carried on. :D Actually, that is how many early railroad section gang cars shifted from forward to reverse.

beenthere · April 03, 2015, 01:47:17 PM

Gee, and I thought that with those rr gang cars, they just pumped backwards. :

;D

Dave Shepard · April 03, 2015, 03:18:18 PM

Sawguy, weren't they called Fairmont (or mount) rail cars?

sawguy21 · April 03, 2015, 03:49:34 PM

Charlie would know more about them.

jocco · April 03, 2015, 04:05:03 PM

Daily occurance ;D get used to it seen many do it. If it did it other than low rpm winching or engine flutters and it does it get it looked at asap

Quote from: David-L on April 03, 2015, 06:27:14 AM
Was winching in a hitch on the move yesterday and the terrain was tough and didnt' have rpms up and the engine stalled and next thing you know it's running backwards with exhaust coming out the air cleaner. Pulled the blower kill lever the fuel shut off to the governor and killed it. Let it sit for a minute reset the blower flap and started it up and all was good. ? can this do damage if this happens for a short period on this 53 series Detroit. First time this has ever happened. Ran it all afternoon and no problems. Curious. Thanks.

snowstorm · April 03, 2015, 04:38:25 PM

pull the air stop thats whats its for. if it runs backwards for very long it can runaway on the oil in the base. when i went to school they told us it could blow up like a bomb if it really got going

Maine logger88 · April 03, 2015, 05:22:10 PM

I have had that happen a few times myself. I just did the same thing as you then fired it back up and kept going. I asked my uncle about it he said the same as others already said as long as it doesn't run for long it's fine

bill m · April 03, 2015, 06:29:15 PM

Some of the gas powered golf carts are set up to run backwards. Motor runs normal for forward, flip a switch and it changes the timing. Step on the gas pedal, the motor runs backwards for reverse.

thecfarm · April 03, 2015, 07:04:25 PM

I've had it happen to me a few times on my NH tractor. Most times I keep the rpm on the high side,if I am working it.

Ford_man · April 03, 2015, 07:20:36 PM

Had a old Oliver 88 diesel that I set one of the boys after when he got ot the fiel he said the only way it would go forward was to run it reverse, then it stopped running. It was Bad.

lopet · April 03, 2015, 08:37:06 PM

Can not imagine, sucking in all the crap out of the exhaust manifold is good for any engine. But what do I know. I guess Detroits have their own mind.
Has nothing to do with this, but looks pretty scary if you search for Detroit runaway!

DDDfarmer · April 03, 2015, 09:35:48 PM

no pictures? :D

David-L · April 04, 2015, 06:59:29 AM

This was a very short run backwards, maybe 5 seconds max before I picked up on the fact that it started back up after the stall. And yes it sounded funny. How does it get enough fuel to run on backwards as the fuel pump is run off the gov shaft. Does it also work backwards, makes no sense. Or is it running on what fuel is in the rack lines? Maybe a dumb question but would like to know.

OntarioAl · April 04, 2015, 08:23:35 AM

David
It runs on the residual fuel in the unit injector and fuel oil galleries in the head which at the point of stall still have some residual system pressure, which would fall off rapidly. Five seconds at idle speed doesn't consume a lot of fuel.
Al

s grinder · April 04, 2015, 06:13:54 PM

Was very common when two stroke Detroits powered trucks [years ago].Guys would back up against a loading dock,bump the dock,stall the truck,the truck would rock,the next thing you know the the truck would be going forward in reverse,the driver would be freaking out,exhaust would be coming out of air cleaner.Had it happen to Macks also,but not as much.Working for a trucking company [mechanic ]for 34yrs.,you can only imagine what i've seen.

Babylon519 · April 05, 2015, 01:03:39 PM

A neighbour showed me how reverse works on his older snowmobile. He gets the revs down to near zero, flips a lever, and when he brings the revs up, he's going backwards. He said this was a feature of the machine and it's supposed to work this way, but I always wondered if this wasn't another story like Tom's 'Board Stretcher'! ???

Dave Shepard · April 05, 2015, 01:17:11 PM

Any snowmobile that I've seen with reverse ran backwards.

jwilly3879 · April 05, 2015, 01:45:59 PM

Had the Duetz in the 240 run backwards before.

BargeMonkey · April 05, 2015, 02:20:08 PM

Seen a 3406B attempt it. My 353 has yet to do it but im not ruling it out.

Dave Shepard · April 05, 2015, 02:50:00 PM

Quote from: s grinder on April 04, 2015, 06:13:54 PM
Was very common when two stroke Detroits powered trucks [years ago].Guys would back up against a loading dock,bump the dock,stall the truck,the truck would rock,the next thing you know the the truck would be going forward in reverse,the driver would be freaking out,exhaust would be coming out of air cleaner.Had it happen to Macks also,but not as much.Working for a trucking company [mechanic ]for 34yrs.,you can only imagine what i've seen.

There was a small hill in a city near me that was known for stalling trucks as they came up to the light. The Detroits would fire up in reverse and back over the car behind them.

Ken · April 05, 2015, 05:23:29 PM

Had it happen many times on the 353's over the years. I was told to never hit the starter button when a motor began running backwards.

David-L · April 05, 2015, 08:10:44 PM

That starter button thing could be an issue. And an awful sound to.!!

so il logger · April 05, 2015, 09:23:12 PM

Yes starter button while the engine is running backward's is a bad deal. Can jamb the starter gear into the flywheel, happened to a 353 of my dad's years ago. Skidder op was looking for work on the next day

Logger003 · April 15, 2015, 08:33:21 AM

Happens to me a lot with my 353. Like everyone says just shut it off and restart and it's good to go till next time I'm a little slow on the clutch

boxygen · April 15, 2015, 09:50:32 PM

I had this happen this winter running my neighbors tractor and winch. Almost stalled and then all of a sudden the Cable was spooling off the drum instead of hauling it in. I had heard of this happening so I told him to shut down. I'm not sure if I wasn't there that he would have figured it out in time to save it from damage.

Straightgrain · April 15, 2015, 10:55:55 PM

I'm wondering if there is any chance of this happening to a tractor with an HST for a transmission. ???

I learn something here with each log-on; I spent decades on and off diesel equipment (Detroits in the armored vehicles and a GM 6 v 71s in the HMMWVs) when I was in the military and never heard of this one.

Seen a number of broken transmission housings, drive shafts, and final-drive shafts but no engines running backwards; only Generals did that... ;D.

so il logger · April 16, 2015, 12:43:52 AM

Manual transmission 2 cycle engine, 6V71 are detroit as well. And GM as well

snowstorm · April 16, 2015, 06:06:00 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on April 05, 2015, 01:17:11 PM
Any snowmobile that I've seen with reverse ran backwards.

not all of them. ski doo came out with it in the early 2000's then in 04 polaris used it after winning a lawsuit against ski doo over rear suspension infringements. rather than a cash award they got the rights to the push button reverse. only in the last couple yrs arctic cat started using it. it retards the timing to the point the motor kicks back then runs backwards. and dose it at 2500rpm. its pretty slick i have it on 2 sleds