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Log trailer ideas

Started by TW, August 18, 2008, 02:03:22 PM

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TW

Some week ago I finally bought a tractor after may years of bad economy. A Massey-Ferguson 165 with power steering and safety cab. Now I am investigating to buy or build a log trailer for this winter.
I know  perfectly well what log trailers look like in my area, but I would be interrested in clever ideas and improved designs from elsewhere. The trailer should be long enough to occasionally handle at least 7m (23')long logs and the stakes must be removable and low enough for loading smaller logs by hand. We have extremely stony and rough terrain here so the wheelbase cannot be much wider than that of the tractor. I cannot afford any hydraulic log loader in the next few years but maybe later on.....

I do not log professionally but harvest firewood and sawlogs for our own needs and expect to use the same trailer for some log house jobs. The log house business is the reason why I need to transport long logs.

Ironwood

 




Nothing fancy. I want to build a custom unit/ bunks w/ a 18,000 lb capacity. That is a few years off. I am going to keep it as low to the ground as possible. This one is fairly high, although w/ out a grapple it makes onloading with a forklift easier. I need to get my CDL , before I "go there". I do like hydraulic surge brakes verses electric (they wont fade like electric and it never matters what you are pulliinh w/ ie tractor in the woods, or truck on the road)
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

thecfarm

No clever ideas here.But do make sure the trailer follows in your tractor tracks.I know what you mean by stony and rough terrian.Make sure you have the same ground clearance as your tractor too.I like to weld or wrap a chain around the frame.I have alot of chains kicking around,no straps.This way when I bind the load on,I don't have to get a chain,just the binder.I put tubes in all of my wood trailers tires.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ironwood

TW,

I have a few things I have seen here, first (I don't remeber the post) but the manufacturer had a hydraulic motor that lowered down onto tandem axle tires (R-3 Industrials) on each side and w/ each powered off the hydraulics of the tractor and it was billed as a "powered" trailer, which I guess it is, but not really, BUT way cool idea. So, the motors were in between the axles as they were spaced, and came down from above on some sort of gibbed way, with an acme screw or something to apply pressure as needed to get enough traction.

One of my ideas is to have a system of rollers on each "bunk" as it forms the arc of the the bunk they will need to be segmented, once chained in place the load would be locked in place but this would assist in loading, especially w/ out  loader.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Dale Hatfield

surge brakes in winter /snow can make for a balled up mess   . outside of that I like em
Game Of Logging trainer,  College instructor of logging/Tree Care
Chainsaw Carver

Ironwood

Well isn't that something I hadn't thought of.  Good point, come to think of it I HAVE used the electric controller slide to slow the whole unit (truck and trailer) verses tapping the normal brakes, I NEED to think about this some more!! :P

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

stumpy

I agree with Dale.  Surge brakes are convenient, but after having a tractor I was hauling whip me around on the hyway once, I switched to Electric.
Woodmizer LT30, NHL785 skidsteer, IH 444 tractor

flip

This is my entry for small time log trailers.  I stll need to get some ramps made for parbuckling.  Axles are 7,000lb each both electric brakes and winch under trashbag on front.  In process of getting VIN from state so I can start legally using it ;).











Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Woodhog

You need what we call a  "Power Trailer"...

You get an old 3 ton truck chassis, modify with log bunks etc. for hauling....

The driveshaft from the truck chassis is turned by the ground speed position of your MF 165 tractor.

This will drive on rough bottom better than a 4 WD tractor and forestry trailer, the power trailer will push the 2 WD MF165 along thru any conditions that a new 4WD farm tractor will run through.

You have to match up the drive tires of the tractor to the size tires on the trailer, if they are matched good then the transmission of the tractor will not be binding up....you can pull the draw pin when running down the pavement if it is matched up good...

The  165 tractor is a good tractor in the woods as it has good clearance, the Perkins engine sips fuel. The power trailer/165 combo is like a tank.... You can haul 1.5 to 2 cords of wood depending on your trailer bunk design and the bottom....

You might want to install a good skid plate under the machine, protect the tire valve steps with pipe caps and install radiator protection...

It will not upset like a forestry trailer and loader...

I will look for a picture, here power trailers are laying around the country side everywhere as people went to forestry trailers to be trendy....

http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=67819291&img=http://kijiji.ebayimg.com/i4/06/k/000/7b/ca/6bbf_18.JPG?set_id=1C4000

Here is a link to a nice one.....

On the back of the transmission housing you have to attached a sort of dual c shaped plate with a moveable pin receiver to attach the trailer to the tractor, the whole attachment affair should be articulated....you can build this out of scrap...you cant attach the trailer to the bottom draw bar as then the driveshaft to power the trailer rear end will not line up properly.

You can get an old loader and put it on easily if you get tired of grunting the logs on...you 165 will easily run a small pulp loader....on the hydraulics....need two spools on the back of the machine....

The one in the picture has the tractor set up real nice for woods working lots of protection for the operator as well as the machine, his bunks look like they are set up for stud wood hauling, but you can set your trailer bunks up for different size wood easily...

You have power in reverse and forward depending on which way the tractor wheels are rolling...

If you dont have a 4wd tractor and and cannot power the trailer with a 2WD tractor you may as well stay in the house .

TW

Thank you all and thanks Woodhog
I will investigate this powered trailer idea. I may maybe have to use some kind of old truck gearbox to get the speed right.......
3 ton trucks are rare here but I have a Toyota Dyna rear end laying around.....But I doubt it is strong enough. It looks weak.

Those small loaders are terribly expensive secondhand around here bacause many heat with firewood and all want a loader. A loader would cost almost as much as the tractor so I cannot afford it. Though it may be a good idea to build the trailer so that a loader can be fitted to it later on if I get rich. Good point.
A must however get a wirerope winch and some of them have a boom for loading.

The tractor already has a hith in the location you describe but it is a more advanced model that lifts the drawbar in place usint the hydraulics. I do not know the English term for it but it is almost standard on farm tractors in Finland.

A skid plate sounds like a good idea. At least a partial one. At least it should cover the steering system and that exposed arm under the front axle. Thanks for this point.

The front tire valves presently lack protection but the rear tires already have.

I cannot go too extreme as this tractor will be used for many other uses besides logging but in our terrain I must have proper equipment.

Tom

TW,
We had a Ford 3000 with an excellent skid plate design. It now is in the far west of the State with a family member who displays it as an antique.

The Skid plate covered the entire bottom of the tractor and was made from 3/8" plate.  It had holes in it to allow access to oil drainage and other greasing points.   There was a 3" vertical lip around the perimeter to allow the storage of a few tools, like a hammer or to catch oil from a broken line instead of having it spill onto the ground.   It would get full of small twigs but clean-out was simple.  There was a piece of plate attached to its front that went upward to cover the radiator and it had rings of steel to help protect the lights.

I found that the full skid plate coverage gave me some sense of security.  It not only protected the tractor, but it protected me, somewhat, from branches of felled trees and saplings from coming up under my legs.  Because it was wider than the operator area, it also made a second sturdy step to help get up on the tractor. 

Valve stem protection was just a piece of iron pipe welded to the rim encircling the valve hole.

The Rollover protection (ROPS) was very sturdy.

shinnlinger

Woodhog,

Does it make sense to keep the trucks transmission on the trailer?  I would think it would make matching the tractor/trailer speeds a bit easier and give you reverse if you needed it if you made a long shifter to work from the tractor seat.

If you had a tranny w/ a pto you could possibly use that to run a loader or winch.

I have a much smaller tractor (34 horse) , but I think a 3/4 ton pu could make a nice power trailer.

Thanks for the idea...the gears are spinning.
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

bck



Nothing fancy. but I can load a log by myself.

Flip, are you sure you need a vin ?  I thought I needed one too when building mine but found out it isnt needed in my state.


Ironwood, Is that loader a commercial one or homemade?  I like it.

Sprucegum

My Uncle built one of those power trailers to use behind his little Kubota tractor. The first time he loaded it up with with wood and engaged the PTO that trailer drug backwards. He never checked which way the PTO was turning  :D   :-[

Ironwood

Sprucegum,

The crane is factory, but ??? which manufacturer, I don't know. . Trailer is somewhat factory, although I wish it were longer. I need to flip the axles onto the top of the springs to lower it 8-10" more. GOOD tires, all steel G-series Goodyear, they have a full steel encased sidewall like tractor trailer tires so no "sway" when loaded HEAVY.


                     Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Woodhog

QuoteDoes it make sense to keep the trucks transmission on the trailer?  I would think it would make matching the tractor/trailer speeds a bit easier and give you reverse if you needed it if you made a long shifter to work from the tractor seat.


Yes you can use a transmission mounted on the pole assembly of the trailer. If your tractor has no ground speed position on the transmission. 

Many tractors dont have groundspeed, (International etc.)  on these we had to put in a transmission between the PTO and the trailer driveshaft. It works OK but more gear to break down.

It makes a much neater and better working power trailer when you have the ground speed feature, it works of course in forward or reverse as far as turning the PTO....

MF tractors such as the 135  165 etc all had ground speed lever on the left side...also Landini had ground speed and probably others,  Belarus etc...

I never saw anyone drive a winch or loader boom from a PTO gear on the external transmission on the trailer, but it sounds like an excellent idea to me..well worth a try I would think...

I can see the smaller operators going to this type of stuff again as costs of the fancy gear are out of sight ., as well as the price for what you are harvesting is below rock bottom.

The big circle leads back to the starting point....

beenthere

Woodhog
Are you talking about ground speed as a tractor option to control PTO speed relative to the tractor transmission gear selection?  I'm trying to wrap my mind around what is meant here by "ground speed".   

Some tractors have ground speed sensors that adjust various features for inherant wheel slippage (depth of ground tilling attachments, etc.). Might they include variable speed PTO as one of these features?

Curious here.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Woodhog

QuoteWoodhog
Are you talking about ground speed as a tractor option to control PTO speed relative to the tractor transmission gear selection?  I'm trying to wrap my mind around what is meant here by "ground speed".   


The ground speed lever lets the PTO turn as  function of the tractors speed across the ground.
If the tractor is rolling fast the PTO turns fast, if you reverse the direction of travel the PTO turns the other way...
If you are going slow over the ground the PTO turns slowly..

On a farm it is good for spreading manure etc evenly, the manure flow will stop when the machine stops and spread more if moving fast, less if going slow....

The other option of course is engine speed PTO control, faster the engine RPM the faster the PTO turns, you use this for things like a hay baler etc that are synchronized to run at the rated PTO speed by the designer (usually 540 RPM)  then you select your travel speed with the gearing and the baler will tie knots etc properly because it is running at its rated PTO speed.

With these power trailers, when the tractor wheels are turning power is transmitted thru the PTO to the trailer rear end gearing even if the engine is shut off and the tractor is rolling down a hill.

They are really good to get 4WD capability around the woods when you can only afford a cheap 2WD tractor..

Here we went from car hoods pulled by people, to skidding with horse and ox, skidding with old tractors or truck tractors, then when the MFs came with the ground speed we all went to power trailers with those 2WD tractors before 4 WDs came along and we bought forestry trailers we really didnt need.....

Of course the 2WD tractors are much cheaper that the 4WDs, with a power trailer you get almost better than 4WD capability in the woods  with your cheap tractor....

There was another name for the lever positions. Might have been Live and Independant PTO control, I cant remember....I think the engine speed PTO position of the lever was called "LIVE"

They have a two stage clutch... when on engine PTO you can push the clutch in the tractor stops moving and you can set the RPMs of the PTO if you want to for running some piece of equipment on the back, the equipment is then running, you let the clutch all the way out and then you start moving again. Thats live operation.

For ground speed you just put the PTO lever in the other position and let her roll along, not much to it like all farm work compard to woods work  :D :D :D :D :D :D

Its been a while since I ran one, maybe someone who has one can elaborate better.

TW

Is the PTO strong enough to stand up for the use of a power trailer over a long time?

Powered log trailers are not common here but powered aggregate trailers can be found and they are said to cause rear end breakdowns on the tractors. I suspice that this is caused by the driver not bothering to disengange the PTO when driving on a proper road.

shinnlinger

My new thoughts on this are to power an entire 4x4 truck chasis complete with tranny and transfer case and make a powered "Hay wagon"

Reason being my small tractor wont be able to handle as much weight, so I can put it on the front axle of the trailer....better get electric brakes on it too!

It would have to have a raised deck, or a "dog house" for the tranny or curved bunks going over it, but I can see running shifting levers out the front to dial in different speeds(you would have to, as it would bend the hitch up pretty quick otherwise)

THEN I need to justify doing all this with the wife and THAT is another story.  I can get logs fairly well with the setup I am running now.
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

twobears

 the tractor/trailer in the link is a good lookin rig.

  delbert

Woodhog

QuoteIs the PTO strong enough to stand up for the use of a power trailer over a long time?

Powered log trailers are not common here but powered aggregate trailers can be found and they are said to cause rear end breakdowns on the tractors. I suspice that this is caused by the driver not bothering to disengange the PTO when driving on a proper road.


We never had any problems, except in the usual cases of extreme abuse caused by over loading in rough areas etc.

Also as you mention the ground speed should be dis-engaged on paved roads and in cases where there is no slippage for the wheels, same as a 4 WD vehicle.

You cant get the speed of the tractor tires and the trailer tires perfectly matched and there will be binding on the drivetrain unless there is wheel slippage.

flip

bck,
Yea, according to the BMV here if I plan on using it on the road I have to get it plated and such the need for the vin tag  :(   Just another way to extort a little more money from the fine citizens of Indiana.  How do you mount your ramps on the side so they dont slide around.
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

bck





After I get log loaded I use short piece to keep log on trailer during travel. I put trailer beside saw when I get home and take small pieces and lay them flat and roll log onto saw.

bck

If I do it again I think I would make winch removeable so I could put winch on either side, depending on my access to log. Having winch on one side can be a pain if log is not laying in right place.

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