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What do you give up when you convert a dozer from steel tracks to rubber tracks?

Started by LOGDOG, June 27, 2010, 06:01:17 PM

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LOGDOG

I just bought a John Deere 450C dozer at an auction - sight unseen. Went down there over the last several days to view it and get it prepped for transport and had the John Deere Rep meet me out there. She's going to need some undercarriage work and some track work. I was looking online this afternoon at rubber tracks. It seems as though they're readily available aftermarket for those size dozers. Really not that expensive either. Instead of paying the shop rate of $100.00/hr to have them burn off the bolts from each of the pads that need replacing, ordering replacement pads, and paying $100.00/hr to have the shop put them back in, it seems as though I'd be money ahead to just back the tension off the steel tracks, take them off and slip the new one piece rubber tracks on and retighten.

Have any of you guys done this before? What do you give up (or for that matter what do you gain) when you go from steel to rubber? I see quite a few of the small Komatsu dozers on rubber around here. Have watched some videos on YouTube and they seem to get around pretty good.

Appreciate your thoughts. Here's some pics of the dozer:








Bobus2003

Good lookin little dozer.. As for rubber tracks.. What kinda work you gonna be using it for? If your in the rocks any you'll prolly end up tearing the rubber tracks to shreds... If you'll be using it on or near pavment then i'd go with the Rubber tracks

LOGDOG

Thanks Bobus. I should have mentioned that we don't really have any rock down our way. It's all red clay, sandy loam type soil. Very few rocks on my place. If there's a rock there it was probably carried onto the place by someone. Going to use it to keep my slopes in shape, do some finish grading and contouring around the place, maybe stump a few trees and push a few over, cut some ditches,etc. One thing I noticed is that one site claims they are the only distributor that sells a legitimate "rubber dozer track" designed to take the torque and strain that a dozer puts on them. They say others are selling tracks meant for small excavators where you don't have the same torque and load put on them.

I'm thinking that the rubber would shave a good bit of weight off the dozer, that may not be a good thing (other than for transport). I do think the dozer would run smoother on the rubber at higher speeds, more fluid, less clanking of the individual steel track shoes.

Buck

hey logdog call Mike Renfro at East Tx welding and press in Nachadoches,Tx before you get too far along.  I know he will treat you better than anywhere else nad answer those questions
Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

Live....like someone left the gate open

Tom

I don't think I would worry too much about weight either.   A few sandbags, a good root rake, or a couple of lengths of old railroad iron will get you back in business if you need the weight for traction.

scsmith42

Landon, I'm going to send you a PM with some contact info re undercarriage parts. 

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

LOGDOG

Thanks guys.

Buck, has Mike done work for you in the past? Do you happen to know if he has a track press?

ely

those tracks look great to me. i would use them until they were slick.

LOGDOG

Ely,

   They looked good to me too in the picture, and then (after I had bought it) I saw them in person. ::) Some of the shoes are really knarled up. They must have caught them on some thing. Some of the bolts that anchor the shoes had been loose for a long time so they were literally sloppy. I would have thought the guy would take better care of his equipment since he lived in about a 7000 sq. ft. home on a 40 acre spread. Could certainly afford to take care of it. Just didn't care I guess. So I want to get it right. The John Deere dealership down there is picking them up for me either tonight or in the morning and hauling them to the dealership. The field service Rep/Manager told me today that they have a track press there and it wouldn't be anywhere near $100.00 / hour labor to do the track and undercarriage work. He said $65.00/hr tops. He couldn't justify charging more than that unless it got techncial and involved something like transmission work. That was a bit of a relief. We may just be able to pick through the track and weed out the bad shoes and replace them. Overall the cleats do have a lot of meat on them, much more than my last Case 850 had. If we manage to save the majority of the tracks I'll spend that money elsewhere in the undercarriage. I told him I want to get both of those machines in the condition that they'll work every time I want them to and when I'm done I can sell them in good conscience to a guy and know he's getting a good start based on how "I" took care of the machines.  We'll see how it goes. He's going to give me an estimate before we do the work. He's also going to get a price on a rubber track from a company I suggested (Prowler). I'll be curious how it shakes out. Will keep you guys posted. Anxious to turn some dirt with that little guy. Have to say she runs strong. Hydraulics are super responsive.  :)

John Woodworth

I think you would be wasting your money with rubber tracks, didn't know they made them. I assume you are having your pins turned, what percentage is on the rails? The Growser pads don't have to be perfect just as long as they arn't bent and catching on each other' I've built up the growser lugs many times by adding flatbar and realy isn't that bad a job changing the growsers with a air wrench and a modified wrench to fit the nut. Are the sprockets worn and how about the front idlers.

The last 450 I overhauled for a friend of mine and later put rails and sprockets on I built  up the front idlers and he got new rails from JD which were Korean and about half the price of American. Can't remember on the sprockets but as I remember the price wasen't that bad.


Congradulations and good luck the 450 is a good machine.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

Buck

LD, as a matter of fact, he repaired one last week while I waited and yes a couple of presses. His prices were good enough for me to haul a track from Lafayette to him and back and was back running the next day with e new idler also.
Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

Live....like someone left the gate open

LOGDOG

Buck that's a pretty good jaunt to go from Lafayette over Nacogdoches,TX for a repair. He must be doing something right for you to go that far. Do you recall the hourly rate he billed you? Or does he work flat rate? I see you're from DeRidder? You ever eat at that little burger shack in the center of town where the highway splits? Can't remember the name ... but I definitely remember the food.  ;D

John ... thanks for that congrats. The sprockets look pretty decent actually. Some of the growser pads are curled as though they had gotten hooked on something. Could probably pick and choose though and replace the bad ones. Rails don't seem too bad just yet as there are no signs of the track rubbing due to a loss of clearance. Can't recall the idlers right off. I need to get a pressure washer up in there and clean it out good so we can see what's what.

Those little John Deeres had snort. My cousin had one, a 350 though, with a knuckleboom loader and a trailer/sley that he used to log with when I was young. That thing was a work horse. I remember we had a work day at the church and he brought his 350 over while another member had brought a new 550 to the workday. That 350 was stumping and flopping 2 to 3 trees to the one that the 550 was pushing over. May have had something to do with the operator but that little 350 was sure willing to work. Good times..... :)

LOGDOG

By the way, here's the link to one of the companies that makes a rubber dozer track: http://www.prowlertracks.com/Prowler%20Bulldozer%20Rubber%20Tracks.html

....and here's a video example of a dozer on rubber tracks. Towards the end you can see a close up of the running gear and the track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPYTvW8m6Rg

Granted this guys not doing much in the way of pushing material around but in a finish application it'd probably do alright.

treefarmer87

i have the same dozer except mine has a loader bucket. it is leaking oil bad, i need to fix it
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

Raider Bill

Mine too leaks everywhere and only turns in one direction. Price was right though. Found it in a pasture hadn't been run for 15 years. Farmer said if we could get it running we could have it.
It runs!

The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

mad murdock

One of my associates at work has a JD350B that he had new tracks, and sprockets put on, they were new BERCO tracks and sprockets, the whole job including labor was less than 6,000. I think it was around 5,500.  Granted, a 450 is a bit bigger, but there is no substitute for steel, unless one has alot of hard surface work to do.  New tracks usually end up less money than replacing grousers, as you said, burning off old bolts and installing new ones is a time consuming proposition.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Buck

Yeah, he made a miracle happen fast....   Only reason I threw it out there is because he isnt too far from you. That lil machine looks good from the pics.  And Yeah buddy on the burgers!
Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

Live....like someone left the gate open

Restoman

Man, that looks like a good machine!  Hey, we're neighbors.  It this going to be used in your operation or what?  The rubber sounds like a good idea, I'd have to see more people using them and ask them how it worked out for their application.

Restoman

What I've read:

The main advantage of rubber tracks are 1) very smooth ride walking the machine compared to steel tracks, and 2) good for working on dirt or pavement. Disadvantages; 1) you can damage them working in rough materials, like rocky terrain, and 2) they generally are expensive to replace. If all you do is plunder around in dirt, they'll give good service life. The ride is hard to beat. But if you work in rough stuff, I'd go with steel tracks and bolt on rubber pads

Rubber can slip off, sucks in the cold, rebar positioned the wrong way will ruin your day and your tracks. 

My opinion?  Steel tracks with rubber inserts.

LOGDOG

Buck,

   Next time I'm coming through DeRidder I'll give you a heads up and we'll catch a burger and shake down there if you have the time.

Restoman,

   You say "we're neighbors"? Where are you at?

Fortunately my cost basis is "fairly" low in this rig so I can spend some money to clean it up and not be upside down in it. (Knock on wood.) Truth be told, I'd rather end up with a little too much in a machine that's willing and able to go to work and perform when you need it to, rather than have a good bit tied up in a machine that's hit or miss and causes you grief when the time of need arises. Been fortunate for the most part in that regard.

You know I looked at 4 wheelers the other day and they're getting 10K plus for some of them. Seems like the higher those items go (and everything else) it makes the case for these small machines holding their value so long as they're well maintained.  :)

Restoman

I'm in Shreveport on the South East side.  Haughton's a nice place, my wife keeps having people buy houses over there.  It's the hot little ticket around here now. 

barbender

I wouldn't want the rubber tracks on a dozer unless it was real light duty work all the time. We have a rubber track Case skid loader at work, I don't think those tracks will make 800 hours. They are in pretty severe service, but a dozer is always in severe service too, I think.
Too many irons in the fire

Ironwood

LOADS of rocks here in SW Pa. so likely not a good idea. The Youtube guy looks like he is playing more than typical dozer work. I could do what he is up to w/ my tractor a FEL or rear blade. IMHO

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

LOGDOG

You're right Ironwood. He's basically travelling over the surface, just back and forth. Although, the travel is smooth. Maybe that's what he's trying to illustrate? As far as the dirt goes, soft top soil ...not a real challenge. Like you said my little Kioti 4wd tractor could do about the same thing.

Restoman,

I'll shoot you a PM. You're right, Haughton is having a big influx of people. Schools are part of the attraction, and I think people are wanting to get out of the city atmosphere to some extent. Unfortunately, when so many come, they end up bringing the "city" with them.  ;) Good folks out here thoough for the most part. We'll have to hook up sometime.

In the next couple of days the estimates should start coming in. I'll be curious to see where that leads. If we can just weed out the bad pads/ cleats I think that'd be my preference. Like one of you said, there's quite a bit of meat left on those tracks.

arojay

Logdog, If you go to Yesterdays Tractors site and check out the 'dozers, loaders backhoes board there is something for everyone with a dozer.  Lots of threads about JD450's.  Several mechanics frequent the board and are generous with advice.  Once you read some threads you figure out which posters know what's up.
440B skidder, JD350 dozer, Husqvarnas from 335 to 394. All spruced up

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