Do we have any Cerified Inspectors on the Forum?

[just_sawing]

It appears that with what is in the future one of my family is going to have to be a certified inspector. We checked on the program and by the time we stay in Memphis 12 weeks and pay for the course it is going to be about $7K.
$2500 for the course and the rest just loging etc.
Is there anyone here that has made the plunge?

[Ron Wenrich]

What is the purpose for doing this?   I think you need an NHLA member to sponsor you for the 12 week course.  You would have to run a pretty large amount of wood to justify that.  We had a guy do that for our mill, and he never stood on a bundle to do any grading beyond that.  He does do the sorts at the mill, but some of that comes back with complaints of too much off grade material.

If you're looking at it from a standpoint of just knowing the grades and how they're determined, I'd go for a week long short course.  I took one at Penn State decades ago.  They still have them at various places in the state from time to time.  I've also seen them offered in Ohio.  Cost is under $500 for the course, plus room & board.  You have to look around to find where one is offered.

If you're selling grade lumber to markets that need to have a certified inspection, then its worth the investment.  But, I've inspected lumber and sold it to wholesalers that went and reinspected it.  I was usually only a couple of hundred dollars off. 

The short course is very worthwhile for those that have something to do with grade lumber.  Namely sawyers, edgermen, and trimmers.  Sometimes you can get someone to come to the mill and give a couple day short course for your employees.  That might be more cost effective in the long run.

[Magicman]

Hardwood or Softwood?  Flat lumber or framing lumber?

[just_sawing]

what I see is if as a sawmill you want to sell a package of framing material for a home (hardwood) it will have to be inspected. I can complain about the injustice or get by. If you want to build you are going to hire a person to certify the package. That is $1100 per day. It woun,t take long to recoup.

[just_sawing]

Last year there was a large push to get around the local counties to make all lumber built for residential and understand that is not where they want to stop.
Here some counties opted out.
Here is the loop hole for people to use there lumber off the Sawmill. It will have to be certified by a certified grader and be less than 21 percent moisture content. It can be done by any certified inspector. The problem with doing the short course is being able to sign off on the package. In the sawmill production that isn't a problem your work is spot checked but as a stand along you (It appears with what I understand at this point) you will need the whole ball of wax.

[Larry]

I can understand counties pushing for inspection of softwood construction lumber, as below grade lumber can affect the safety of a structure.  With your reference to 21% moisture content I think you are talking about softwood.

Hardwood lumber is normally not used for construction so it is only graded for appearance.  That's what they teach in the 7 week Memphis course.  The grade of the wood is for appearance only...has nothing to do with strength.

[Ron Wenrich]

The Memphis course is for hardwood grade lumber, and is put on by the National Hardwood Lumber Assn.  They don't cover construction grading in any depth.  Here is their rule book:  http://www.nhla.com/assets/1603/2011_rules_book.pdf   They cover construction grades on page 67.

Northeastern Lumber Mfg Assn. have rules for softwoods in the NE, and they have a stamp.  Their rule book is here:  http://www.nelma.org/library/2013-standard-grading-rules-for-northeastern-lumber/

I know of a hardwood mill that tried to do the same thing as what you're trying many years ago.  They had inspectors and were doing volumes on the line of half million bf/wk.  They abandoned the program and concentrated on developing local grade markets, as well as exports.  They were trying to use tulip poplar and sell it into the framing markets. 

I don't know your mill capacity or how many homes you figure on cutting for.  I hope you've done some market research in finding contractors that are willing to use hardwoods, and that you've been able to figure out how you're going to beat the local lumberyard prices. 

[Peter Drouin]

I can do that for framing lumber.

[beenthere]

Here is a link to a grading course scheduled in WI for next week. Deadline for signup was Dec. 2, but likely there are similar courses to be found.
Grading Short Course

[bandmiller2]

If you have a half decent local building inspector work with him.Its my understanding you can use your own lumber unstamped for everything except load bearing members.I built an addition, bought floor and roof joists from a lumber yard and I cut everything else.The old building inspector was a sport and said I could use my full cut studs but don't skimp.I studded and braced that room to the extent it put a big grin on the inspector.How to the timber framers get around building codes.??? Frank C.

[Jim_Rogers]

How to the timber framers get around building codes.??? Frank C.

We don't. If I need my customers timbers inspected to meet grade and be stamped, we hire a traveling grader to come to my sawmill and inspect and stamp the timbers. NEMLA provides this service. The cost is around $300 a day. The inspector who came here did a whole barn in one day.

Jim Rogers

PS. The timber framers guild, sub chapter "Timber Framing Engineering Council" (TFEC) is hosting a timber grading workshop in April, 2014 at a timber framing school here in New England. For details about this workshop, check out the TFG (Timber Framers Guild) website at tfguild.org

[just_sawing]

The plan is to become certified for framing and if it can be arranged my daughter will take the full course. She already has a Doctorate in Education and was number one in the state in forestry in High School. She sees an opportunity with where the regulations are going.
You can hide your head and complain or cease and overcome. The 12 week course is $2500 so we are going to have to come up with about $7K all total for her to become educated.

[schmism]

Do people only timber frame with softwoods these days?  I know my 100 year old barn that is timber framed is done in oak and walnut and chestnut (what was standing in the area 100 years ago in central IL)

If you timber frame with anything other than SPF or SYP how does the grader grade if if the grade schools only do hardwoods on appearance?    (use the same gradeing rules for softwood and apply it to hardwood and really all the inspector cares about is the stupid stamp?)

How to the timber framers get around building codes.??? Frank C.

We don't. If I need my customers timbers inspected to meet grade and be stamped, we hire a traveling grader to come to my sawmill and inspect and stamp the timbers.

[schmism]

If you have a half decent local building inspector work with him.Its my understanding you can use your own lumber unstamped for everything except load bearing members.I built an addition, bought floor and roof joists from a lumber yard and I cut everything else.

If your inspector has any kind of clue on building envelope,  then virtually every part of the meat and potatoes of a house is structural.  all joists (floor or ceiling), sub floor must be span rated (you have to use span rated sheeting not just partical board)  so if you were going to go old school and use 1x for the subfloor,  it would also have to be graded.   wall studs,  rafters all need grade.  then back to 1x for the roof sheeting again has to be span rated.   Same rule would apply to wall sheathing the wall diaphragms transfer all the shear loads to the foundation that come from wind.

so whats that leave?  sideing, flooring and trim.  not a lot when compared to all the framing members.

<source:  spent 8 years providing engineering for the wood truss industry >

[Jim_Rogers]

Do people only timber frame with softwoods these days? 

No, I'm currently sawing out a timber frame barn out of red oak.

If you timber frame with anything other than SPF or SYP how does the grader grade if if the grade schools only do hardwoods on appearance?    (use the same grading rules for softwood and apply it to hardwood and really all the inspector cares about is the stupid stamp?)

All inspection whether softwood timber frame or hardwood are graded on appearance, I believe.

Grading rules for 5x5 and larger timbers are different then grade rules for boards and 2by stock.

The school mentioned above is for hardwood only, as far as I know.

The TFEC is hiring an instructor from NELMA to teach grading of 5x5 and larger timbers at the class this April. And there are other instructors that are going to be there.

Jim Rogers

[Dave VH]

I've been a rough framer for 18+ years and the issue has never really came up?

[bandmiller2]

I cut a lot of 1" boards to replace bad ones on roofs and sides its ether OK or the inspectors are napping. Frank C.

[beenthere]

FrankC
Doubt an inspector is interested in seeing a grade stamp on 1" boards.
Those are different set of grades from the structural grades required in a building, I believe.