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How long to make logs.1st post.

Started by clusterbuster75, January 29, 2012, 01:19:36 PM

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clusterbuster75

First of all, after having the internet for a year, this has became one of my favorite websites. I can read for hours trying to learn :P, but after many searches, I am looking for some opinions I can't find(I assume the discussion has occured).   ???

I have approximately 25 red(couple white) oak trees cut down(20-30") and am waiting on frozen ground to drag them out for milling.  I cut them off right at the ground. Is this bad?  I have read a thread about this bottom wood not being good for posts?

whats anyones experience with the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th oak log ?  Do certian logs better lend themselves to certian tasks? (i.e. do I want all my 6x6 posts from the butt logs?)  These logs are cut at 24-36' and I'm trying to decide how to cut them up into smaller logs. I've had problems with wind shake in sycamore. I'll be having these custom milled and don't want to pay for unusable lumber.  Any thread recommendations or search words I should be trying?  Thanks for all you helpful people on this forum.

stihl 046, Cat 416b , JD 5520 N

shelbycharger400

at the dirt line, or buttress, is where the most figured material.  some "stump"  and cut the trees down about 2 ft off the ground.  make your posts from the centers of the logs,  lumber from the outsides

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, clusterbuster75.   :)  I can not speak to using any Oak for post, because in my area termites and rot will get them quickly.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Ohio_Bill

Welcome ClusterBuster  ,  If you have plenty of trees you might be better off selling the butt logs . They tend to bring top $ and could help recap some of the sawing and building expense. Many times I have sawn 1.00  bf logs into 40 cent post " not the best use of  logs " .  I have a sawmill and  I still sell most of my butt logs because the logs bring more than the lumber I  cut from them .
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

Jim_Rogers

The old timer who taught me logging many years ago, told me to "set the saw on the ground, roll it onto it's side and start cutting".... when I asked him how low to the ground to make the stumps.

He told me you want every inch of wood you can get because when you layout the trunk to cut it into shorter logs you may need an inch, two or four to make a good log because of defects in the tree. By defects I mean branches and other things.

If you are doing posts, most logs will do, as the grade for posts is lower then the grade for beam. Beams have to be stronger and have better quality.

Second or third log up can be used depending on the branch sizes and locations. We always try to cut the log at the bend so that we end up with straight shorter pieces. But these cuts have to be according to lengths plus trim. Some hardwood loggers like to have 6" of trim some only 4", it depends on the end use.
As these are for yourself, you could go with 4" but usually I do 6". This allows some to "trim" off after the timbers have dried out, and they may have checked some on the ends. Some ends check more then others and sometimes you can trim it back all on one end.

As mentioned you make extra lumber from the outside of the logs for other uses in your project.

As for paying for unusable lumber, you'll need to discuss that with your sawyer. And define what you think is unusable.

Good luck with your project.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

clusterbuster75

Thanks for all your replies.  This will be my 3rd building.  I don't buy wood. I cut down trees.  My 1st sawyer was an expert, but he's past on. Now I have a young sawyer (I've searched and searched for others), who unfortunetly knows less than me.  THis is my 1st time making posts. 

So what I'm gleaming from your replies is maybe make beams and boards from my butt logs, but 2nd, 3rd etc.  logs will do for posts and lumber.    Does this sound reasonable?   :-\ Or am I better off harvesting some small oaks(9-10") and making them into posts?       

At Ohio_bill, I'm not in position to sell my butt logs. THe only place I know to sell gives $.25 bd/ft whether it is the butt log or the 4th log, so I sell the junk not the good stuff. 
stihl 046, Cat 416b , JD 5520 N

Ohio_Bill

How long will your 6x6 post be?  They will stay straighter if you box the heart, another words take out of the center of the log. If appearance is not an issue I like to use 3   2x6, s and laminate them. The different grain patterns in the 3 boards tend to stay straighter and is stronger. These Post are laminated with treated lumber in the ground .

 
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

prairieforester

Your District Forester should have a list of sawyers that work ing your area. hane McDermaot i your district forester at Stephen forbes state park
WM 2004 LT40HD

Al_Smith

Depends on what you got and what you want to use it for .In this area firewood pays better than saw logs .

If you are like me and just salvage lumber from stuff you can get some good stuff from mediocre logs .The rest is just higher priced firewood which it all would have been had it not been milled .

Oh maybe 8 years ago I had some stuff above the crotch of a red oak that should have been cut for firewood,knotty as the dickens .However even at that often there is some beautiful  shorts  maybe 6 feet .Of course some are sled runners too .Geeze twist like a cork screw .

Often times on a big oak,hundred footer there is a nice log between the crotch and the canopy  10-12 footer that has some really nice lumber .

On length I cut them 6-8 inchs over what it might be 8-10-12 -16 foot . End seal helps with checking but doesn't totally prevent it .

Al_Smith

Rambling on .I have a fair amount of ash that was milled prior to the EAB invasion .I've used it for cabenitry  ,trim etc .Often times when sawing out dimensional lumber on the table saw I've culled out 40 percent of a rough sawn plank .

So what it could have just as easily been ashes in the wood stove instead of a nice piece of structure that will last centuries providing the house doesn't fall down .Once it's firewood that's all it will ever be .Which is my take on salvaged lumber .

j rock

Look at it this way, what good is any wood, thats lefted in the woods. I've cut my own logges for meny years. CUT your own logs as close to the ground that is, SAFE for you, (and your saw)that is possable.  Not getting hurt is the name of the game.  J.
whats fun? making saw dust!!

clusterbuster75

Does an oak tree ever get too big to box the heart or does it just depend on the tree? I've noticed the heart of some oaks I've had previously milled to be down right junk. I don't want my building to be supported by junk.

At j rock, if sawing down big trees wasn't dangerous, it wouldn't be any fun! (I've cut many down with a Stihl 029, but upgraded to a 046 this yr. in the name of safety).  I will have 8 posts 10'. 2 posts 12'(gable end door frame) and one post 16'(center of other gable end) all from various red oak species that will be enclosed and on concrete.  I will also have three 8' posts for lean-to that will be exposed to weather and will be white oak.  I have seriously debated just using three 2 x 6's but I own and operate a winery and am looking to keep a certain "look". My winery is white oak BB siding, and my tasting room is done externally with old barn siding and internally sided with silver maple with a red oak floor and trim.   
stihl 046, Cat 416b , JD 5520 N

beenthere

You can always wrap a post with the grade boards that you feel your customers will enjoy looking at (and you). Then internally you can lay up 2x6 or whatever you feel is structurally adequate for the job and the wrap won't look much different than a solid timber.

Don't know what you mean by "junk" wood, but boxed heart will show the limbs etc. that the tree had when it was a sapling. Tight knots, minimum cracks shouldn't be junk. Small unsound knots or holes can be "aesthetic" in a timber.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ohio_Bill

With your post being over 10 ft long if you don't box the heart there will most likely be sweep in them. What I do to over come this is  saw 8 by8's  then place them back on the mill and cut one side then turn 180 to take out the sweep ending up with 6 inches . I call this double sawing  , I don't know if that is the right name or not but that's what I call it .
Hope that helps .
:D
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

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