Farm Forestry (sub Tropical)

Andy Mack · March 17, 2005, 02:23:12 AM

Hiyas

I'm investigating for myself the business of Forest farming. I toured several small, private, mixed species plantations in our area (sub tropical) last Sunday, and I am on another tour this Saturday inspecting plantations in an adjacent district.

The concept is to grow high dollar cabinet timbers (rain forest trees) some of which are fast growers to provide early returns while other higher dollar tree provide returns over the longer term. The first commercial thinning comes in at 8 to 12 years while others are cropped from 15 years to 40 years.

The idea is to establish a rain forest that is self regenerating so it will provide income from about 10 years and every 5 years there after, hopefully providing a nice retirement fund, and if the next generation manage it right, it'll be there forever.

That is the theory. As I have no background in farming, trees, machinery, I am treading carefully and trying to use common sense to sort the facts from the BS.

I will try to add more to the thread and throw some photos in

:P

Andrew

Arthur · March 17, 2005, 02:39:38 AM

If you have the space may I recommend a small plantation of Balsa or similar tree. These are fast growing and regrow from the stump.

I would only have 5% to 10% of the total plantation area but on a sustainable forest farm these trees will give you a FULL harvest in 8 to 10 years and additional full harvests every 4 to 5 years.

Easy to mill and always in demand.

The hardwood is just the cream on the top.

arthur

Andy Mack · March 17, 2005, 02:56:42 AM

Digging holes for planting. It is not a normal Auger / post hole implement, they describe it more as tilling the hole. They don't want a clean hole that a post hole digger does, actually want to rip it up.

(btw - first go at posting a photo)

Andy Mack · March 17, 2005, 03:09:43 AM

Arthur:

Not surprising, I know nothing about Balsa (except we made model planes from it ;D). Do you know the requirements for growing Balsa, soil type?, Climate ? , Rainfall ? ???

What is the market for Balsa ?

Paulonia trees are also pushed as a cash crop but they require a lot more looking after. I'm also very unsure of the market for Paulownia.

Andy Mack · March 17, 2005, 03:30:06 AM

Normally an annual rainfall of about 60 inches is desired. This planting is about 20 months old but they have endured a rather dry winter last year. This district typically is only a 40 inch rainfall area.

Notice the bare looking ground under the trees, they spray with glyphosate to keep weeds under control. The ground was never tilled, but deliberately grassed, then killed off to use as a mulch layer. Its almost gone in this case but on close inspection the grass roots and remnants are still there. Hopefully another season should see some canopy establishing, pruning and leaf dropping will start to provide a compost layer.

Andy Mack · March 17, 2005, 03:49:52 AM

This is a 3.4 year old planting. Is in a 60 inch rain fall area, but the last 2 years were well under average.

notice how the compost is forming on the ground and the canopy is establishing. Very little weed control is required now.

Andrew

OneWithWood · March 17, 2005, 09:33:44 AM

Andrew, your plan makes a lot of sense to me. I started out with similar goals and much to learn 25 years ago. We have had some successful harvests and are now looking to process the lumber from tree to final form, on a limited basis. The journey has been fun and enlightening. I learn more everyday :P
You meet the nicest people in the wood business ;)

sawmillsi · March 17, 2005, 03:45:22 PM

G'day Andrew,

Where in QLD are u?

You should contact the school of forestry at Southern Cross University in Lismore (northern NSW) on 02 6620 3000 - they have should be able to give you some contact details on the sub-tropic farm forestry going on around northern nsw (theres a lot) and their own plots.

They should also be able to give you the contact details for the sub-tropic farm forestry association in Nth NSW.

Simon

Bro. Noble · March 17, 2005, 03:54:11 PM

Andrew,

Like OWW, we have been enjoying a plantation for several years. It is just now starting to pay off. Your pictures look kinda like ours ------on fast forward :D :D Keep the pictures coming

Andy Mack · March 17, 2005, 06:00:44 PM

Thanks for the Encouragment guys

Simon:

We are currently in Brisbane, but soon will be Sunshine Coast. The tour I'm doing tomorrow is starting from the Southern Cross University, though organised by the Qld DPI. Thanks for the heads up on the Southern Cross Uni as I will make further enquires. I would love to invest in a sizable property in your area (northern NSW / good rainfall ) with a view to farm forestry.

One with Wood, Bro. Noble :

I would love to hear more specifics about your experiences and returns

Bro. Noble · March 17, 2005, 09:11:25 PM

Andrew,

I'm sending you an Instant Message

On page 3 of this forum I started a thread "made a deal" where I describe our thinning procedure.

Arthur · March 17, 2005, 11:32:05 PM

[quote author=L-plate link=topic=11059.msg152099#msg152099
What is the market for Balsa ?

Paulonia trees are also pushed as a cash crop but they require a lot more looking after. I'm also very unsure of the market for Paulownia.

Quote

Both have markets in surfboards and boat building. I milled a plantation last year near Taylors Arms and most of it went for boat building. 10% went for surfboard manufactures up in the gold coast and some wnt for tables.

Both look like ceder when coloured.

If you get down to Coffs Harbour I can show you all sorts.

arthur

OneWithWood · March 18, 2005, 08:06:31 AM

Andrew,

Check out this thread

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=1400.0

It will give you a glimplse of what I have been trying to accomplish in the last couple of years. Progress has been slow do to other projects taking precedence.

Good luck with your adventures and be sure to keep us informed of your progress.

Andy Mack · March 21, 2005, 01:40:17 AM

Hi Guys,

Back from our tour of farm forests around Lismore. I'm still on a very steep learning curve but it's all fun. Unfortunately I haven't seen a more mature forest that has been well managed for commercial return, lots of them were done for a combination of rehabilitate with a commercial aspect to it or they have been experimenting with different ideas.

Having said that, I saw some good trees !

This is a 12 year old mixed species planting. This plantation is not a bad example but as its owner is a busy man, some jobs haven't been done. Form pruning is important to ensure the quality (but not too bad). The plantation is desperate for thinning, it was a close planting to start with and needed to be thinned a couple of years ago.

Andy Mack · March 21, 2005, 01:53:58 AM

A recent Blue Quandong (12yo) has been thinned.

Since the local PHD student cut this tree down, he advised the owner to leave the log in the forrest to provide additional mulch. I dunno about this, it's at least 30cm x an easy 6metre (12inch x 20feet) of quality timber, I think i'd rather make a few dollars.

Its desirable to get this sort of fungus action going as well as the normal mulching from leaf litter.

Andrew

Andy Mack · March 21, 2005, 02:22:01 AM

This is a 14 year old Quandong (Elaeocarpus grandis) thats been felled. This tree can grow to 35 metres and up to 2 metres diameter. The beauty of this timber is that its fast growing, strong, easily machined and low shrinkage, but it is rather bland.

Uses are : Because it is strong, light and straight grained, it is used for Masts, oars and bent timbers in boat building. It is reported to be one of the best steam bending timbers of the world. Also very good for mouldings, joinery, plywood, veneer, and furniture.

This sample would be 40 cm (15.75") diameter with very little taper over what would have been a 6 to 7 metre (20' to 23') length log.

sawmillsi · March 21, 2005, 03:15:32 AM

Andrew,

I too have visited most of the local sub-tropic rainforest plantations (i live at Brunswick Heads and have studied at SCU in Lismore) and some look real good eh!

I like the Silver Quandong (or Blue Fig) in the pictures but the market you speak of, where is it?

This is the single biggest problem for these plantations. They are not being thinned because those logs are not yet commercial (for the applications you spoke of) as they are too small in diameter and there is not enough resourse, and they owner does not want to have a thinning cost him/her money.

Its the egg and chicken thing again.

I have milled Blue Fig myself and its real nice, not like Paulonia (which is for my money S&*%!), it has a real nice light grain through it.

Have you had a look at the Rocky Creek Dam planting - much nicer.

Simon

asy · March 21, 2005, 04:06:01 AM

Quote from: sawmillsi on March 21, 2005, 03:15:32 AM

Have you had a look at the Rocky Creek Dam planting - much nicer.

Simon

Hiya Simon, the last photo of the cut Quandong was at Rocky Creek Dam. ;D

We had a great weekend, I took a few photos (well, OK, around 400)...

We are yet to see a plantation we are really impressed by. Rocky Creek Dam was nice, but it was not designed as a commercial plot, so there's no drop corridor... However the trees looked the most advanced so far.

We've been looking through the differrent 'systems' between the Queensland forest system, and the Mitchell system, etc, but none of them seem the whole bag of chips.

I think what we will 'probably' end up doing is a mix of them all. Learn from them but not jump into either pool.

The big problem with all the ones we've seen so far, is that nothing that we've seen that's over about 5yo has been planted for commercial forestry, they keep going on about ecology, and reforestation, and wildlife habitat, but hey, till the possums pay for my bills, they can live in the state forest, I want my commercial forest to be just that.

The big question is, which species to plant, and in what mix.

We would be VERY interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Oh, by the way, we are in 60in rainfall, with DEEP fertile soil. (current owner cites 15ft and still diggable).

The other main problem with the current 'systems' is that no-one seems to be willing (or able) to give us any sale pricings or indicaitons of marketability. They all say This is the best, or That is the best, but not saying why or how...

asy :D

Andy Mack · March 21, 2005, 04:37:39 AM

Hi Simon

Thanks for your comments. Good to hear candid comments from someone in Industry.

AS for marketing , that's what ASY is for :D :D :D :D :D

Seriously, marketing is a major issue. I'd really like to talk to you more on this subject.

I would think that its important to thin these forest for the sake of the other trees, especially since they're higher dollar trees. If markets were a problem, I'd fell them, have them milled, and store them untill I can obtain prices I liked, they'll be nicely seasoned by then.

I have seen furniture made from Quandong and it is really nice.

Andrew

Andy Mack · March 21, 2005, 04:52:05 AM

Quote from: Arthur Dyason on March 17, 2005, 11:32:05 PM

Both have markets in surfboards and boat building. I milled a plantation last year near Taylors Arms and most of it went for boat building. 10% went for surfboard manufactures up in the gold coast and some wnt for tables.

Both look like ceder when coloured.

If you get down to Coffs Harbour I can show you all sorts.

arthur

Thanks Arthur

Sounds great.

asy · March 21, 2005, 06:35:06 AM

Quote from: L-plate on March 21, 2005, 04:37:39 AM

AS for marketing , that's what ASY is for :D :D :D :D :D

Andrew

smiley_eek_dropjaw

asy :D

sawmillsi · March 21, 2005, 04:05:36 PM

Asy and Andrew,

I don't really think that the market in Australia is big enough in either the woodern surfboard or woodern boat manufacture to warrant planting trees and investing capital. After considering investment needed, Balsa is still cheap from SE Asia and the pacific.

What trees to plant? The million dollar question!

One of the problems (in my mind - as a forester/sawmiller) with mixed plantations is when time comes to thin, which one do you thin???

In NZ, the forest reseach mob over there have been playing around with 2 species mixed plantations with every other row being a species. You can use a fast growing species and a slow growing species - real easy.

But when you get 15 different species that all grow at different rates and with different characteristics - no hope.

For my money, I would pick 2 or 3 species (possibly Blue Fig, Silky Oak and Blackwood (either Tasmainia or Victoria seed stock - not north coast stuff)).

These 3 have existing markets in the cabinet making and fine furniture markets in Australia and though NZ.

Simon

Andy Mack · March 21, 2005, 04:29:56 PM

Simon

I'm thinking along the same lines. I knew it had to be one species per row, with Blue Fig and Silky Oak at the top of the list. I thought Qld Maple would get into the list.

Simon: When you refer to Blackwood you are refering to Acacia melanoxylon?

Andrew

Andy Mack · March 21, 2005, 04:53:49 PM

Hi OWW

I checked out your thread, and wow, very impressed. Looks like a fantastic setup.

Are you now in a position of making a good percentage of your income just from selling the timber you've milled from your own land?

Quote from: OneWithWood on March 18, 2005, 08:06:31 AM
Andrew,

Check out this thread

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=1400.0

It will give you a glimplse of what I have been trying to accomplish in the last couple of years. Progress has been slow do to other projects taking precedence.

Good luck with your adventures and be sure to keep us informed of your progress.

Ianab · March 21, 2005, 05:03:42 PM

QuoteThe other main problem with the current 'systems' is that no-one seems to be willing (or able) to give us any sale pricings or indicaitons of marketability. They all say This is the best, or That is the best, but not saying why or how...

Thats certainly a problem with lesser known species. It is hard enough to put a value on those lesser known logs now, let alone in 30 or 40 years.

Simons advice to go with known currently marketable species is good from a financial point of view. If you have 500 mature blackwood trees NOW, you would be smiling. It's reasonable to assume the same will be the case in 30 years time.

QuoteIf markets were a problem, I'd fell them, have them milled, and store them untill I can obtain prices I liked, they'll be nicely seasoned by then.

Thats about the best way to go about marketing unusual species. If you are able to do that then good

But you are taking on the work, responsibility and risk yourself instead of selling standing trees to a commercial operator and banking the cheque. What you get for the trees will mostly depend on your own marketing ability. If can be done, but no one is going to predict how well you are going to do with it.

90% of the trees planted in NZ are unfortunately Pinus radiata :( . This isn't because it's superior timber. The wood is pretty average actually, but the infrastructure is set up to deal with it and the harvest cycle is about 25 years for good saw logs. You can use a crystal ball and educated guesses to predict what your return will be. There is allways a ready market for pine logs although the price fluctuates a bit. Blackwood, walnut, kauri, cypress are better timber and they also grow well here, but the harvesting and marketing is a bit more of a mission, especially with small numbers of trees.

I do like what you are planning to do though, good luck

ian