The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Chainsaws => Topic started by: MNBobcat on March 12, 2018, 09:49:53 PM

Title: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on March 12, 2018, 09:49:53 PM
I bought a new Dolmar 6100    It will be a year old in April of 2018.  I've had it in to the dealer 3 or 4 times because of issues with it not running right.  The last time, they sent it to the Dolmar/Makita factory shop.  All the Makita did was adjust the carb which of course means they didn't fix anything.  The problem only shows up when it's really cold out.

Anyway, this saw has never been set on a hard surface.  When I put oil and fuel in it, I lay it on a towel.  I normally don't treat a saw that gently but I wanted to keep this one in nice shape and it's still pretty new.  It doesn't go anywhere.  I keep it in my shop and I walk outside and cut wood and it goes back in the shop and when I set it down it sets on a dirt floor with the chain resting up so that it's out of the dirt.

When I've hauled it to the dealer, it goes inside of a plastic bag and then I put it in a cardboard box.

This is what it looked like when I got it back today.  

All that missing paint is brand new.  Wasn't like that when I dropped it off.  Also, the chain guide is dinged up and has a tear in it.

Should I rake the dealer over the coals and demand a new saw or am I being too critical?

They've tried to be decent to work with in getting this saw fixed but I'm not happy that my new saw is looking like this already.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20275/IMG_2464.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1520905549)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20275/IMG_2463.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1520905582)
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: John Mc on March 12, 2018, 10:28:46 PM
Do you have the serial numbers on your original saw? It sounds as though they gave you someone else's saw. I'd complain, and do so as soon as possible. The longer you wait, the less credible your complaint will seem to them.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on March 12, 2018, 10:37:43 PM
I'm certain it's my saw.  The factory mounted it in a machine and ran it and i suspect the vibration from the machine wore the paint off.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: John Mc on March 12, 2018, 10:58:30 PM
Quote from: MNBobcat on March 12, 2018, 10:37:43 PM
I'm certain it's my saw.  The factory mounted it in a machine and ran it and i suspect the vibration from the machine wore the paint off.
Is that normal machine wear on your chain catcher as well?
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: thecfarm on March 13, 2018, 06:09:12 AM
Wow!! Something went on with that saw. The paint worn off,probably they will just repaint it. But that bent chain catcher took something to bend that.
I would be decent about it,and I bet they will fix it for ya.
Who knows what happened when it was sent out.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: ZeroJunk on March 13, 2018, 07:10:01 AM
Looks like it threw a chain to me while testing.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on March 13, 2018, 08:00:30 AM
I'm less concerned about the chain catcher then I am the missing paint.  I was trying to take care of this saw and keep it looking like new.  I've never done that with a saw before. But it looked like new when I handed it over to the dealer.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: coxy on March 13, 2018, 08:15:00 AM
the guys at the shop said it ran good while cutting 10 cords of wood  :o
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: mike_belben on March 13, 2018, 11:11:00 AM
Thats from a foot sliding it out of the way on a concrete floor a few times. With a bar on it.. Note the heavy forward and bar side concentration.  
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Jeff on March 13, 2018, 11:19:09 AM
Its cut wood since that chain catcher was damaged, you can see the buildup in the tear.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: coxy on March 13, 2018, 12:05:21 PM
all joking aside i would check the serial numbers it has happened before sometimes by mistake and some on purpose
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Southside on March 13, 2018, 12:59:51 PM
So at first I thought maybe you were being a bit sensitive about the whole thing, then I put it in the context of if I had sent off a piece of equipment that I had taken great care of and it returned in that condition.

Well, that led to me flipping over my 3 year old 372 that rides in the skidder and fells for it's living. This is not a saw that is set on a towel or otherwise babied, nor is it abused, it simply works for a living and is treated with the care due an expensive piece of equipment. The photo is of my saw bottom. After looking at it I agree you have a very valid complaint and should address it with the dealership. There is a good chance that is not your saw is my guess. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1132.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1520960310)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1130.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1520960365)
 
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: starmac on March 13, 2018, 01:17:13 PM
Well I am like southside, and didn't pay a lot of attention to the damage at first, cuz my saws are work saws and have never been babied. That said after looking at pictures of his I went and looked at my OLD 266, and there is no telling how many miles it has rode in the back of the pickup and it looks no worse, maybe even better than his 372. I have to wonder if the powder coating or what ever it is they coat these saws with is not thinner on new saws, or maybe even dolmar uses something different. It does make one wonder how yours got the paint rubbed off that quick, when I compared it to mine and knowing what kind of life mine has led. 
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Spike60 on March 13, 2018, 01:45:34 PM
Chain catcher is bent enough that it needs to be replaced anyway, so they at least owe you that. The deal with the paint rubbed off is a little different. That corner even looks a little rounded off, so it got rubbed pretty good there. If there is a bucking spike on the saw, that didn't happen while cutting.

When you are trying to find a problem that isn't obvious, you have to put some run time on the saw. But a shop throwing the chain? And calling tech service now and then is OK, but good shops don't have to send a saw to the factory. :) Which brings up: Is this thing fixed and running right yet?

One problem here is that the saw really isn't new, even though the owner kept it looking that way. It's a year old. So a new saw isn't likely here, but they really should make a gesture of some kind. This is a mess for sure. :o

Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: coxy on March 13, 2018, 05:54:22 PM
it shouldn't matter if the saw is a 100 years old should not come back looking like that  if i barrowed your 3year old saw that looked like new and returned it looking like a 10 year old saw you would be pithed off to  :)
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on March 13, 2018, 09:37:31 PM
I was too disgusted yesterday, to look the saw over closer, after the wife got home from picking up the saw.  I had to cut with it tonight so I shot some more photos.  Everything with a blue arrow is damage caused by either the dealer or the Makita service center.

I did check the serial number and it is my saw.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20275/3~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520991414)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20275/2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520991384)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20275/1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520991364)
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Southside on March 13, 2018, 10:04:37 PM
Not to add to your misery but looking at the last photo there appears to be a tool mark on the handle that lines up with the arrow lowest and to the right.  The left most arrows in the same photo appear to be teeth marks from a pair of pliers.  Makes it look like it was wrenched into a vice or something.  

I brought a cutter bar off a Kuhn disc mower to a "machine shop" one time to have a wallowed out bearing hole fixed - the guys work came off looking a lot like what your saw does, it was a complete mess.  It is amazing how many hacks there are out there.  

Did it run any better?   
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on March 13, 2018, 10:14:33 PM
Thanks for looking over the photos and sharing your thoughts.  I'm in contact with the Makita service center.  The lady I emailed the photos to is going to show them to her boss.  She wanted me to send the saw back but I can't do that.  I burn 20 cords a year and I only cut enough wood for a day or two at a time.  I can't be without a saw.  The dealer was kind enough to give me a loaner while my saw was at Makita.  Hopefully they will look over the photos and agree that there is no excuse for a customer saw to be beaten up like that.


It ran fine tonight.  I don't expect to see any problems with it though until next December or January when it gets cold again.  To me it acts like something expands and sucks air where it shouldn't but it's hard to say.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Tin Horse on March 13, 2018, 10:14:53 PM
Did someone at the repair shop take it home to test it and it fell off their truck and hit the pavement?
Looks like it had impact.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on March 13, 2018, 10:18:11 PM
The dealer took it home last weekend after it came back from Makita.  He ran 2 tanks through it.  He told me today that it went into the trunk of his car, then to the woods where it was set on the ground.  In other words, he was saying he didn't do anything that would have caused the damage.

Makita, on the other hand, put the saw into some kind of machine where they run it for about an hour (so I was told) under varying loads.  Who knows if it fell out of the machine or what?
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Tin Horse on March 13, 2018, 10:28:45 PM
I've had odd issues with a few Dolamar saws in the past. Not sure if I'll buy another one since the transition to Makita.
I feel that around here it's where to find the best dealer support that is often the problem.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: DelawhereJoe on March 13, 2018, 11:39:32 PM
It definitely looks like the saw was left running on concrete or blacktop for some time to have it sand off the paint like that. The other matter is that chain catch that thing it rather messed up and in need of replacing. I don't think the factory is going to use a machine that damages a saw just to test it, kinda like denting a car to repair the motor, just doesn't work like that.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: starmac on March 14, 2018, 12:36:40 AM
I will agree that the factory wouldn't use a machine that would damage it, but it could have been operator error, like not clamped right or tight and it could move of whatever. Like I said, my old 266 has had a hard life, and it sure doesn't look like that.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Spike60 on March 14, 2018, 10:48:45 AM
Quote from: coxy on March 13, 2018, 05:54:22 PM
it shouldn't matter if the saw is a 100 years old should not come back looking like that  if i barrowed your 3year old saw that looked like new and returned it looking like a 10 year old saw you would be pithed off to  :)
Oh, sure I would. Absolutely. I'm just as fussy keeping them clean as bobcat is. The cleaner they are, the more I fuss over them to keep them that way. The problem here IMO is that the people testing/working on the saw didn't recognize that the owner took extra good care of it. And they should have made an effort to keep it that way. But they didn't, and it passed through too many hands as well. I see saws like that come in now and then. Guy keeps it in a case and doesn't have scratch on it. I'll put a clean piece of cardboard on the bench before I work on it. But I "get it" because I'm anal about keeping saws clean myself.
But the unfortunate reality is that those scuffs, especially the ones in the second pic with all of the blue arrows, are what would be called "normal wear and tear" in most cases, especially on the bottom of the saw. And I fear that's the direction this would go if pursued. For a year old saw doing 20 cords of wood, she still looks pretty good.
Again, I'm not in any way defending those clowns at all. But what happened can't be undone.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on March 14, 2018, 11:18:36 AM
Thanks guys.  I just found out from Makita that if I ship them my saw they will send me a new one next day air.  I had to talk to the service manager at the factory service center.  Glad they are willing to step up and take care of the problem.  

They sent me a shipping label, too.  :)

Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Spike60 on March 14, 2018, 11:48:45 AM
Wow, that is great!!

And this one probably won't have that carb issue you had to deal with on the original saw.

Congrats!
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on March 14, 2018, 12:01:19 PM
Spike,

That's what I'm hoping!  I'm pretty certain the underlying issue with my saw was never fixed.  I was concerned it would reoccur next winter when it gets cold again.

I'm happy to have a chance to have a properly working saw.  
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Tin Horse on March 14, 2018, 01:11:06 PM
That's great news ! your persistence paid off. My greatest fear is taking equipment in for repairs no matter what it is. I took my new fishing boat back 3 times (under warranty) and because the computer hook up didn't identify the issue they couldn't figure it out. Each time it sat in a unsecured field. When I finally brought it home I had to winterize it a second time. It was during a snow storm.
I from now on specify how my equipment will be cared for or I go somewhere else. ( when possible).
You made an example of them and that's good. 
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on March 14, 2018, 01:13:32 PM
When I get this new saw the dealer won't be fueling it up for the first time and setting the carb. 

I don't have a tach for a chainsaw.  If I make sure the saw is 4-stroking just a bit in the cut, I should be safe, correct?  Better to be a little rich than too lean.

My son in-law does a lot of motorycle work and he may have a tach he uses on a motorcycle.  Anyone know if that would work on a chainsaw too?  I have no idea what a tach for a chainsaw looks like or how it works.

Thanks!
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: thecfarm on March 14, 2018, 02:20:37 PM
That is good news. I myself don't know how to set a saw up. I would take it to the dealer and have them do it.
If you did it,warranty??
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on March 14, 2018, 02:24:49 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on March 14, 2018, 02:20:37 PM
That is good news. I myself don't know how to set a saw up. I would take it to the dealer and have them do it.
If you did it,warranty??
It's a 2 hour round trip to the dealer.  I can't (don't want to) make another trip to them.  But they do know that I know how to adjust the carbs so I don't think they would dispute anything if I had a problem with the saw down the road.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Southside on March 14, 2018, 03:35:24 PM
Yup 2 hours is a long drive, but personally after all of this - I would find someone who can set it up the way Makita will warranty it, maybe another dealer.  You don't want to hear a loud screech and wonder if they will come good the second time.  
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Tin Horse on March 14, 2018, 04:38:27 PM
Apparently many saws can't have carb adjustments done anymore??? I took my 1 1/2 year old Dolomar 5100s back thinking it needed carb adjusted. It would only all of a sudden come up to about half power. Carb is pre set and shouldn't be touched dealer said. Special tool anyway. Ended up being the coil. $200.00 later and just past warranty.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on March 14, 2018, 06:19:03 PM
Quote from: Tin Horse on March 14, 2018, 04:38:27 PM
Apparently many saws can't have carb adjustments done anymore??? I took my 1 1/2 year old Dolomar 5100s back thinking it needed carb adjusted. It would only all of a sudden come up to about half power. Carb is pre set and shouldn't be touched dealer said. Special tool anyway. Ended up being the coil. $200.00 later and just past warranty.
They can be adjusted.  You need a special tool which you can get on amazon and then there may be caps on the needles where you may need to remove those caps before adjusting.  
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: HolmenTree on March 14, 2018, 08:26:09 PM
That's a heck of a good deal ,it took me lots of wrangling to get a replacement for my brand new lemon from the factory 550XP that only  had 1 1/2 hour on it.
Too bad I didn't know that Husqvarna offers a 1week return policy if you're not happy with the saw.

You may want to think twice about doing the saw setup yourself. That just may be enough grounds for them to not honor future warranty.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: John Mc on March 15, 2018, 12:19:13 AM
Quote from: MNBobcat on March 14, 2018, 01:13:32 PMIf I make sure the saw is 4-stroking just a bit in the cut, I should be safe, correct? Better to be a little rich than too lean.


There are others on here who know a whole lot more about this than I do, but I believe you want it 4-stroking just a bit at full throttle when out of the cut, and it should "clean up" when in the cut.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: HolmenTree on March 15, 2018, 12:53:01 AM
Well said John.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: LeeB on March 15, 2018, 01:14:53 AM
Will this replacement saw come with a new saw warranty or just continue with your original warranty?
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: starmac on March 15, 2018, 03:37:25 AM
Generally it continues with the original warranty, if like anything else.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: LeeB on March 15, 2018, 03:51:21 AM
As would be expected. Can't really see getting a new warranty for a replacement. Warranty or no, they did good.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: teakwood on March 15, 2018, 07:46:23 AM
That's really a good deal!
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: John Mc on March 15, 2018, 08:07:57 AM
Quote from: John Mc on March 15, 2018, 12:19:13 AM
Quote from: MNBobcat on March 14, 2018, 01:13:32 PMIf I make sure the saw is 4-stroking just a bit in the cut, I should be safe, correct? Better to be a little rich than too lean.


There are others on here who know a whole lot more about this than I do, but I believe you want it 4-stroking just a bit at full throttle when out of the cut, and it should "clean up" when in the cut.
More on this... Madsen's has a good Chainsaw Maintenance and Repair (http://www.madsens1.com/mnu_sawmaint.htm) page. Check out the link to Saw Tuning. It includes an audio file of what it should sound like. (NOTE: typical speakers in a laptop are of too poor a quality to hear this well. BEst to play it through some good speakers - maybe some decent headphones would work OK?)
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: mike_belben on March 15, 2018, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: Tin Horse on March 14, 2018, 04:38:27 PM
Carb is pre set and shouldn't be touched dealer said.


Next time ask them if the weather comes preset too.   You ever seen a 2 stroke motorcross where carbs arent get dialed in between every single heat?  

10 degree temp change, time to get the screwdriver.


Yes follow madsens.  I can give you cliff notes.  Get it running and crank up idle speed.  Now twist the L screw in and out listening for the highest idle you can achieve.   Leave it there and back the idle screw to normal so chain stops walking.   Rev it up and get the H screw turned out far enough to be raspy when free revving.  In the cut under load it should "shift" from 4 stroking to 2 stroking.  Burbly and raspy to screamy and sharp.  I consider where i can push into the wood or lift a hair and switch notes on command to be the ideal high speed setting.  

IMO, dont break it in too easy.  But then again i wont warranty this info either.


I still say the shine is concrete skidding on a shop floor.  The gouges look like where it was piled onto a work bench full of other sharp metallic junk.  The chain catcher is obviously a thrown chain.  Thats a consequence of some slob who didnt care to tighten it up as it go hot and sagged off the bar.  Maybe even run it out of bar oil.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: HolmenTree on March 15, 2018, 04:37:24 PM
Like Stihl ,Jonsered and Husqvarna has there should be a winter pre heater kit for that Dolmar.
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: MNBobcat on April 03, 2018, 10:10:13 PM
Have ran almost, not quite yet, a tank of fuel through the new saw.  So far so good!
Title: Re: New saw came back beat up
Post by: Rebarb on April 04, 2018, 10:54:59 PM
That's quite impressive by Dolmar and possibly sell a few more saws for them.