Why did the auto makers drop the small diesel trucks?

brdmkr · May 04, 2006, 12:01:20 AM

I was thinking today

Why did the auto makers drop the small diesel pickups? I would like to have a larger diesel truck, but likely won't buy one unless something unusual happens. However, it made me wonder about the market for the smaller trucks. Seems like increasing gas prices would make those little trucks popular. Has anyone heard any talk of bringing them back? Were there mechanical reasons that these trucks never really caught on or was this all just consumer demand?

sawguy21 · May 04, 2006, 12:12:22 AM

I suspect that with the narrow difference between the price of gasoline and diesel in north America, most consumers found they could not justify the upfront cost. It would take too long to recover except in the larger work trucks. The smaller trucks also seem to appeal more to the urban dwellers who object to the noise and smell of the diesel. They are not perceived as enviromentally friendly.

TW · May 04, 2006, 01:00:11 AM

I am quite sure that there is no technical reason because small pickups are sold new and are popular in my end of the world.
wolkswagen caddy, toyota hilux, isuzu ?? are popular ones. They are quite expensive because of the big demand. I wish I could afford one.

Ianab · May 04, 2006, 01:58:48 AM

I think it's just about your local market, all the major brands here in NZ sell some sort of small (2.5-3 litre diesel) pickup. I think the Ford one is a re-badged Mazda and the GM is a re-badged Isuzu and most can be had in petrol or diesel / 2WD or 4WD / Standard or twin cab etc.

Must just be the US market doesn't want them? The American style pickup is rare here, just too expensive and hard on gas for us poor Kiwi's ;)

As far as the environmental stuff goes, diesel appears dirty because you can see the smoke, but you cant kill yourself with diesel exhaust, yet you can with petrol exhaust. That tells you something about whats coming out the tailpipes ???

Cheers

Ian

Ron Wenrich · May 04, 2006, 05:58:56 AM

I had a Toyota diesel back in the '80s. The problem they had was engineering. They simply dropped a diesel in place of their gas engine with no other alterations. I was knocking out main transmission bearings every 20,000 mile. The first time they took care of it (warranty), the second time I got rid of the truck.

I think the demand argurement has little merit. We can only buy what is made available.

Ianab · May 04, 2006, 06:35:56 AM

QuoteI think the demand argurement has little merit. We can only buy what is made available.

Chicken and the egg I guess... they dont sell them cos there is no demand, there's non demand COS they dont sell them :

But the Japs make them by the millions, just they dont send you guys any...

Ian

breederman · May 04, 2006, 06:45:03 AM

I had a Datsun in the 80's. It was the worst vehical I have ever owned. No power, and would not start in cold weather even when plugged in all night. The wife got real tired of going out and towing that thing down the road to get it started evevery morning. >:(
It did get around pretty good on slippery roads as it did not have enough power to spin the wheels. :D

sawguy21 · May 04, 2006, 09:26:18 AM

Diesel is more popular in other countries because generally, the fuel is cheaper and more plentiful than gasoline. From what some of you say you are paying for fuel. miledge is a major issue too.

We in North America are used to cheap fuel and long open roads that do not lend themselves well to smaller underpowered vehicles. They are mostly used in urban areas although that is changing. Still, I don't want to drive halfway to Vancouver in 2nd gear. :D

MemphisLogger · May 04, 2006, 09:55:04 AM

I'm investigating the importing of a front clip from a Toyota Surf from Australia so I can drop a diesel in my '94 Toyota Pickup then converting it to run on fryer oil.

My understanding is that Toyota never offered the diesels on regular pickups in the US (they did on their 1 tons) because they couldn't meet California fleet mileage requirements.

Have y'all ever seen the Top Gear episodes on the Toyota Surf? If not, check 'em out at

Top Gear Toyota Episodes 1 and 2

thedeeredude · May 04, 2006, 10:14:24 AM

What I wouldn't do for a Tacoma or a Colorado with a 4cylinder cummins.

I think diesels gained a bad rep and now its stuck with people. They think all diesels are super loud, stink and blow black smoke in your face.

breederman · May 04, 2006, 10:17:59 AM

And people say that there is nothing good on tv any more! ;)

Gary_C · May 04, 2006, 10:35:49 AM

The number one reason is unless a car maker can permanently increase market share, a switch to smaller pickups will only lower their gross sales and that would make wall street investors very nervous.

Any switch to smaller, cheaper vehicle is not a good thing for a car manufacturer.

sawguy21 · May 04, 2006, 11:45:58 AM

Would they not gain credits with the EPA to apply to the larger less fuel efficient vehicles?

brdmkr · May 04, 2006, 12:42:27 PM

Quote from: UrbanLogger on May 04, 2006, 09:55:04 AM

Have y'all ever seen the Top Gear episodes on the Toyota Surf? If not, check 'em out at

Now I want a toyota!

johnjbc · May 04, 2006, 01:11:36 PM

My Brother has a Ford 150 pickup with a 4cylinder Cummins in it.
Had to put it in him self. Its a little noisy but gets over 30 MPG. He has been running it for 4 or 5 years now.

Gary_C · May 04, 2006, 04:03:14 PM

sawguy

Could they take those EPA credits in and cash them on Wall Street? ;D

Reddog · May 04, 2006, 05:41:29 PM

Emissions, The small trucks and 1/2 tons fall under car standards. To much soot to pass the standard at that time. Now that the new 3/4 and above trucks have to pass it, something may change. The rest of the world allows more soot in exhast.

slowzuki · May 04, 2006, 07:47:04 PM

Something that bugs me is after fighting the bad image of smoky diesels is the cummins and powerstroke owners who chip their trucks to up the fueling and blow HUGE clouds of smoke when driving around town. I know many of hte guys and they think its funny but I ticks me off.

Save your chip switch for the highway when you're towing a giant load up an 8% grade, don't be fogging it of the stoplight downtown, the pretty redhead standing at the corner ain't impressed with your 400 hp and 900 ft-lb of torque when she is choking.

crtreedude · May 04, 2006, 07:55:31 PM

Lots of diesel pickups down here - good vehicles and last forever. Particularly the Toyota Lancruiser Pickups.

An 20 year old will still set you back about 10,000 dollars - no kidding. Diesel trucks don't devalue down here - they just keep going...

sawguy21 · May 04, 2006, 08:05:55 PM

A Landcruiser pickup has not been available here for a long time. Believe it or not, Nissan still sells the Patrol in Oz and most are diesel. They were last sold in N.A. in the late 60's.

Vermonter · May 04, 2006, 08:24:25 PM

I saw a diesel toyota landcruiser in Canada at a mine. I contacted Toyota and they said they only outfitted them on commercial vehicles. I've wondered if I could buy an engine and transmission for my tacoma in Canada and set up my own. The carmakers that sell in vermont have to show that they sell a certain amount of high efficiency vehicles in order to sell the diesels, so VW chooses not to sell diesels here. I contacted the state government and told them they couldn't understand the math if they were comparing emissions from motors, without comparing emissions per mile. I can't help but make them mad everytime I talk to them.

scsmith42 · May 04, 2006, 10:22:10 PM

Reddog hit the nail on the head - the reason that you don't see many small dlesel trucks is because the motors will not meet the EPA tier II and III emission standards. Other parts of the world don't have this problem.

A friend of mine had a Volkswagon Rabbit diesel pickup truck a number of years ago. That darn thing got close to 50 MPG. There would be a heck of a market for these today.

UNCLEBUCK · May 04, 2006, 10:31:56 PM

Want to see pollution ? Sit next to about 150 trucks waiting to load produce in California ,trucks idling so the driver can stay cool , refrigerated trailers cycling up and down running non-stop to stay cool, gag cough, yuck!

I love diesels and if Ford had the brains to put a diesel in the ranger they would be the number one selling truck !

brdmkr · May 04, 2006, 11:31:27 PM

Quote from: UNCLEBUCK on May 04, 2006, 10:31:56 PM
I love diesels and if Ford had the brains to put a diesel in the ranger they would be the number one selling truck !

That's what I mean. You'd think someone would figure this out. Small trucks are really popular. Imagine what you'd have if you built one that got 40 mpg. I can't help but think it could be done. It seems like the marketing guys would be all over it.