Ideas needed for removing Christmas trees from pegs - Civic fundraiser

[btulloh]

I'm going to throuw this out there and see what the creative minds on the Forestry Forum might come up with to help solve a couple ongoing problems we have with our annual Ruritan Christmas Tree sale fundraiser.

As our membership gets older it is becoming more and more difficult to handle the trees and load them. The three things that cause the biggest headache (backache) are:

1. Removing the trees from the display pegs. Somewhat due to pitch, but mostly do to compression of the tree around the peg.

2. Carrying the larger trees from the display area to the sales area. Tight lanes, awkward grip, old muscles.

3. Lifting heavy trees onto tops of cars.

Item 1 is the main thing I'm trying to find a solution for right now, although we could certainly benefit from improving #2 and #3.

The trees sit on special steel pegs made for displaying Christmas trees. There are holes drilled in the base of the tree to match.



 


 

Our setup has four pieces of 5/8 rebar welded in a square (6ft) with the peg plates welded in each corner. Works well generally. We keep about 120 trees out on these stands and they are replaced as they sell.

Removing the tree from the peg has become a huge problem, believe it or not. So far the best solution has been use a regular shovel as a pry bar to lever the tree up off the peg while someone else twists and lifts. This does not work well, although it works better than most things that have been tried. The fulcrum point of the shovel is too far back, the rebar also gives a little and it's hard to even get the point of the shovel under the butt. At night, with a slight rain and a family of five standing around makes it even more difficult.

I have tried a couple different crowbar solutions and they don't work too well. The challenges are:

- locating the exact point at the base of tree between the rebar/stand plate

- finding the rebar with the fulcrum of the pry bar

- getting the blade of the bar between the butt and the steel plate

That's why the shovel has become the tool of choice, because you can sort of hunt and peck your way and stab at it until you get it in the right place.

I have thought about something to grab the trunk, but may trunks are sheered below the butt swell, making that difficult. Many times limbs are growing almost to the where the tree is cut.

We've talked to the supplier of tree stands, bits, and general lot supplies and it seems no one else in the universe has ever needed to solve this problem. I think the average age in our Ruritan Club is about 74, so maybe that makes us a little different. (The good part of that is that a lot people there call me "young fellow". Best part of going to the meetings.)

If you managed to read this far, thanks for the effort. If you have some ideas, double thanks. This needs to be something fairly light and handy. It should be something that doesn't require a lot of training since we don't have anyone who needs or wants any training in the Ruritan club.

Thanks again for any ideas.

Bob Tulloh

[Ljohnsaw]

Maybe a lighter version of this:  Slide hammer slab lifter   Make the side ones fixed to the slide hammer handle and the center one on the lever handle.

[Don P]

Wax the pin and hole?

Try sliding a piece of angle iron under a stiff square shovel to change the fulcrum point, it might take a selection of a few sizes of angle. If there is a happy place weld the angle to the backside of the shovel. Slide the shovel along the rebar until it gets under and push down. Look at shingle removal shovels. This is one style;
https://www.tigersupplies.com/Products/Qualcraft-Classic-Shingle-Remover__GUA2562__QUA2563-.aspx

We have the same problem with 2 and 3, there are three of us who can lift the world up to our lunch and then it quickly fades. The minivans keep getting taller or I'm getting shorter :D

[Magicman]

Instead of trying to lift the tree off of the peg, why not lay the tree down and twist the stand off of the tree?  But then I guess that the stand/base is secured to the floor?  My other thought was to wax the hole or peg as Don P mentioned.

[btulloh]

More good ideas DonP.  Tried waxing the hole and not helpful.  Also hard to get everyone to follow procedures.  I would think something to limit the adhesion would be a big help, but it's been hard to sell that, and things I've tried didn't seem to solve it.  30-40 members and Boy Scout volunteers on the weekends, plus their dads.  Sheer muscle overcomes when the scouts are there.  Except when we get the younger scouts.  It's like herding cats, and knowledge doesn't pass from shift to shift all that well.  

I like the shingle shovel.  Fortunately I've never seen one of those before.  It's got all the right factors.  It's kinda like what we're doing, only better on all fronts.  Plus it's off the rack, and cheap.

I'm kind of interested in a variation of the slide hammer idea, and tomorrow is a rainy day.  May fool around with that.  I've got some old plow points that should be good for the business end.  

[btulloh]

By the way, DonP, these trees come from up near you.  I can't remember the name of the supplier right now, but it's a good operation.  Trees are cut, loaded, and shipped within a couple days.  Makes for happy customers. Our tree lot has a reputation for fresh Frasier firs.

[SawyerTed]

A short piece of pipe that fits over the peg could serve as a spacer to allow the modified shovel to slide under the trunk might work.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Would one of those aggressive shingle lifters work? I think Shark might be the name of it or brand. It has a bend in its  forks about three or 4 inches in from their tips that gives a huge amount of leverage, quite effective.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I guess you could not put a big pipe wrench on it and rotate it off that way?

[lxskllr]

How about modifying the spike to put the lever on that. Extend the bar out, step on it while gently twisting the tree. IOW, every spike would have a permanent lever.

Possible issues...

People trip over the lever
It doesn't provide enough leverage
The mechanism gets gummed up with sap
Takes time to do, but it would be a one time event

[mike_belben]

Have you got a picture of a tree seated in one of these things so we can really see it all clearly to suggest the ideal tool?

I worked on a tree farm as a youngster but back then i could lug one off the hill on each shoulder and toss it into the baler the on the roof.  I wasnt smart enough to flirt with the yummy mummies at the time though. 

[Southside]

Recruit younger members..... :D

[btulloh]

Some good ideas here already.  I'll be able to get a picture Saturday when the trees are delivered. That will tell the story a lot better (Mike).  Because they're TREES, there are a lot of variables and it's hard to appreciate the situation until you've done it.  But I do think there are some potential solutions here already.  

Some notes:  There are 120 of these spikes in groups of four.  Each group of four is made with a 6ft square made from 5/8 rebar with a spike welded in each corner.  These spike plates could have been fabricated with a little lever, but retrofitting that to 120 of them is probably out of the question.  A heavy 8,9 or 10 ft tree is barely stable on these spikes, so raising it up on a spacer is not really doable.  Even though they are unstable, they don't want to come off.  Funny how that works.  Sometimes a trunk will split from the tree leaning.  More fun.  The butt is usually bigger that the plate the spike is welded to, so it means your pry point is between the cut and the rebar.  Sometimes you need to get between the plate and the cut, usually not.  The shingle lifter may be a good solution.  It has all the right factors, except maybe the reach.  I'd have to see the particular tool, or try it.  Usually the lower branches are pretty long, low, and right in the way.  Most times you can't see what you're doing, even in the daytime.  Sticking sharp tines in the tree instead of trying to get under it may work.  Maybe a spike driven by a slide hammer, like the slab lifter but with the fulcrum offset.

It is almost impossible to work on this or test it until the actual trees are here.  Then there's no time to experiment.  The way the Fraser firs are cut creates a lot of variables that I can't duplicate by harvesting a few VA pines for guinea pigs. 

Great work everybody.  I'll get some real pictures as the opportunity unfolds.

[btulloh]

Recruit younger members..... :D

Amen, brother.  We're trying.  Hard to get people into service clubs these days.  
We did add the question "How much can you bench press?" to our application form.

[Don P]

By the way, DonP, these trees come from up near you.  I can't remember the name of the supplier right now, but it's a good operation.  Trees are cut, loaded, and shipped within a couple days.  Makes for happy customers. Our tree lot has a reputation for fresh Frasier firs.

Bottomley's and Severt's are I guess our biggest growers but there are a bunch of them up here. The semis are rolling right now. I'm working just down the road from both and the trailers pass by every 2 or 3 minutes, even in the rain today they didn't miss a lick. That was a pic of Bottomley's operation I posted yesterday in the whatcha sawing thread. They also host the county ag fair and the pumpkins we delivered down to the special needs kids in Asheville last month came from one of the growers that operates out of that facility.

[mike_belben]

If i am understanding this scenario correctly you need 2 things.  A doglegged pickle fork with an extended handlewelded on to get under the butt and around the pin like a prybar straddles the shank of a nail..... And a tapered hunk of wood, say a 4x4 with a long slash cut that mimicks a window shim.

 The fork with long handle welded on gets shuffled under the tree butt, and the tapered dunnage block is an adjustable height fulcrum for the bar to lever off of.  The wood will lay perpendicular across this rebar frame to hold it down, and the fork perpendicular to the wood to pop the post off the pike. One of you young bucks works the bar and another catches the tree.  

I can probably draw it if thats not clear enough.

[btulloh]

Clear enough.  Put your pencil down.  That's a good idea. And simple.  Being simple would allow it to be jiggered to different tree trunk issues.  It could go under and lift or stick the trunk.  Plus I could cobble that together pretty quick.  

Just need some hard steel to make the pickle fork.  It's kind of like the shingle shovel, but probably a little more flexible.  I could torch it out of a plow point if that wouldn't soften it up too much from the heat.  I guess I could re-harden if necessary, but I don't have much experience with that.

[mike_belben]

24 In. T-Type Wrecking Bar


I forgot all about this bar i used for rigging steel wear plates in the pistol ranges all the time.  Just get that abd a scrap of plywood to plop over your rebar frame and wedge off of.  If minimal effort is necessary i would probably buy two, then the operator just inches each bar while another holds the tree.

If there isnt a HF around, google "pallet wrecking tool" or deck breaker.  Theyre simple pieces to fab up. 

[terrifictimbersllc]

Here's what I was thinking of, not "shark" but "beast" 
the beast
Could fasten a piece of plywood across the back to keep it from marring the floor

[florida]

Drill the hole with your specialized drill bit then drill it again with a bit a little larger than the base of the first bit. 

[BradMarks]

Why not a heavy duty pry bar with the correct lift.

[GAB]

btulloh:
I think you need two sets of claws like on a claw hammer.
The inner set goes between the plate and the bottom of the tree.
The outer set steps on both sides the plate.
You mount this contraption on 10" wheels, or what ever is handy.
Drive (OK push) up to the tree lift up on the outer claw lever and push down on the inner claw lever.
On day two you do revision "A".
NOTE: The longer the levers the easier it will be.
On day three you do revision "B" and build a second one.
 
One of the funniest drawings I ever saw was one of a perfectly detailed toilet seat.
Revision "A" read: added hole in center.
 
Gerald

[btulloh]

Thanks for all the replies and ideas.  Between the ideas here and studying situation a bit more, I took a stab at something and it works pretty well.  At the bottom of this post you can see what I came up with.  

We set the lot up yesterday and the trees arrived this morning about 8:00.  We got all 500 drilled and placed by 10:30.  A new world record, thanks to help from the Midlothian High School Booster Club and about 15 fine student athletes.  This was great group of kids and working with them and some of the dads this morning was a real treat.

Anyway, here's way too many photos.



 



 



 



 



 


 


 

 


 



 


 


 


Bracing.  I've learned to live with anything that keeps the poles up.  Volunteers.

 


This is what you're looking at when you're trying to pop a tree off the spike

 




 


 




The rebar racks.  The way the pegs are placed on the gusset, the diagonal approach gives you
better shot at getting under the tree butt.  Along the lines of Mike_belben's suggestion.
 



Here's my quick and dirty test version.  Plow point, piece of 3/4 schedule 40, and some square tubing
with some kerfed bends.  Works great.  I'm going to put a D-handle on it, paint it with some high-vis, and
release it for general consumption.   It's also a 2-in-1 'cause the sched 40 can be used to straighten out a
bent pin.

 

 

Thanks for all the replies on this.  

I have to mention the kids from football and wrestling teams at Midlo High.  They were great kids and good workers.  We started using them a couple years ago for unloading and it's worked out good for all.  We make a nice contribution to the booster club instead of paying the temp help we used to get through an agency.  

I still smell like Fraser firs after seven hours and a shower.  

[ScottCC]

First trick might be to put a washer over peg to create the gap for tool insertion.  Glue it down.  I have several shingle shovels and they would work great only not cheap.  Do the same with a shovel by drilling a 1/2" hole 4" from the end of a flat end shovel.  Use a bolt and several double nuts to set the pivot point/stand off.  Bingo, $3 per conversion.  Leave bolt long to allow for fine tuning pivot point.  To make one man operation hang rope with loop from handle.  Insert foot/hold tree/push down loop with foot.  Might be for those more athletic members.  Hole in shovel may void warranty so consult manufacturer.

[btulloh]

Don P - The name of the outfit we get the trees from is Slaugher's Tree Farms.  They have a retail operation in Floyd, and they list another address in Floyd for their wholesale office.  I think they have a few different places where they grow the trees in or near Floyd county.  We are always pleased with the trees they send us.

[Don P]

They're a couple of counties over but know their operation well. That is one of Michelle's favorite nurseries, we always stop in when we're over there, good folks.

[btulloh]

Ready for blast off.  The tree lot opens Friday morning.

Hopefully hard to lose, day or night.  

We'll see how long the paint holds up.  Rattle can, cold weather, not enough time to cure.  



 

[Ljohnsaw]

Nice handle addition.  That looks great!  Where do you buy your candy stripe paint cans? ;)

[Old Greenhorn]

I came late to the party on this one just saw this thread. I wonder how your knew tool is working out for you? When I read the thread I was thinking of suggesting a tree felling bar, but it looks like you may have a more elegant solution. Hope you sell all your trees quickly. I did this with the scouts for many years.

[btulloh]

Just to close the loop on this:

The Tree-o-matic 3000 is doing a good job and basically solved the problem - to the degree that it needs to be solved.  It's not possible to make something that works first time, every time, in all situations when used by many different people.  All in all, it's just fine and most people have no trouble.  Many people have thanked me for solving the problem, which is entirely out of character for most of them.   :D

Ten days into it and we've sold 65% of the inventory, which is ahead of our normal pace.  All in spite of funky weather, which has affected both weekends and a few week days.  So all is good.  It will be even more gooder when we sell the last tree and pack up.   8)

It's a good fundraiser for our Ruritan Club and it's a pretty good thing to spend some time down there.



 

[Don P]

Good deal, glad it worked out. We wrapped up our little farmers market fundraiser yesterday. They do trees, wreaths and bunches of holly, which isn't my favorite thing to handle :D. In terms of numbers I think there are probably more wreaths sold than trees.

[samandothers]

Great solution!

Lots of good help unloading.  It always amazes me that no matter how cold I think it may be there is always a young one that shows up in shorts!

One of Slaughter's tree farms is about 2 miles from our place.  We use to go there and select and cut a tree when our kids were young.