material handling:new tractor or yard lift

[brdmkr]

I have a nice tractor, but it will not support a loader.  I use it for bush hogging, pulling the trailer loaded with lumber, box blading, hole digging, etc.  I really need to be able to lift and move logs.  I think I can sell the tractor for what I have in it, and the local dealer has made me what I think is a pretty good deal on a new 4wd 50 hp with FEL with a good finance rate.  It is a Mahindra.  I know they may or may not have fans here, but this dealer is really good and has taken care of me with other pieces of equipment.  His service folks are top notch.

I don't saw anywhere near full time, but I could saw a lot more than I do.  On one hand, I think I could get or build a log arch that would help with log moving, but it seems that it would not be as quick as lifting with the proper equipment and my sawing time is already very limited.  Plus, it would be nice to be able to lift logs off of trailers and put bundles of lumber on trailers (especially loading, as that is currently done by hand).  I think I could find a good used yard lift (all terrain forklift) for a decent price.  I may even be able to skip the financing if I can find the yard lift.  If I buy a yard lift, I could use the lift to move logs and lumber and still have my current tractor for 'tractor duties', but I would have 2 pieces of used equipment to keep up.  I currently wonder if this would be a big deal as neither would get much use, but I sure need them when they are needed!

I don't like the thought of a monthly payment, but I would hate to have another piece of equipment that would make me wish I had done soemthing different (Like I wish I had purchased a different tractor with a FEL).  The yard lift would likely not require financing if I bought used.  I suppose I could also try to find a good used tractor with a FEL. 

Most of you  have been doing this much longer than me.  Any advice?  Thanks!

[Robert Long]

brdmkr;
You know your finances better than anyone, but from your own history of work, can the mill op support that payment?

If not, for a small investment you can get by with a 3 piont hitch forklift and I use the boom from a post hole auger with straps to move logs around the yard and will continue until the mill is so independant that I can afford a new yard machine.

I need a new truck, thickness plane, kiln, and so on and so on........ ;D

and, oh yes, after I have that new machine I find a better one after. :

Robert

[brdmkr]

Robert,

The mill would support the payment pretty easily, but not much more.  I suppose I am just trying to figure out if I want to keep going like I am and make a little spending money or get a little more equipment and maybe do a little more milling.

[Faron]

Strictly from a functional viewpoint, the forktruck will handle lumber, in particular, much better than a FEL.  We have two FEL and a forktruck.  For getting in tight places and loading lumber, there is no comparision- we use the forktruck.  We keep it at the mill, and use the tractors on the farm and loading logs at the woods.

[solodan]

brdmkr,

I think a used forklift would be money better spent for work around the mill yard. I would try to find a good used military telehandler like those old Petibones or something similar. I have seen them set up wth forks and buckets and I am pretty sure you could put a grapple on as well. You can lift quite a bit of weight even with the smaller  ones. I think that would be your best bet, unless you really need a bigger tractor.

[wiam]

bush hogging, pulling the trailer loaded with lumber, box blading, hole digging, etc.

Most of these tasks would not work as well with a forklift.  That Mahindra will lift quite a bit.

Will

[dail_h]

   I bought a 1946 Clark 3500# forklift for $1500. It unloads  and stacks logs,feeds and tails the mill,piles and retrieves slabs,stacks ,and loads lumber,and then sits quietly by the mill while the tractor mows or blades ,or plows ,or sometimes some lightweight loggin. But when I get the logs out,"Ole Spud " is johnny on the s pot to take over the log handeling.

[DanG]

Brdmkr, why won't your tractor support a loader?  Is something broken, or is it just that you can't find the right one?

A forklift is great around the mill, but most of them need level, firm ground to operate on.  The Hootiemobile is what they call a "rough terrain" lift.  That is well and good, as long as your "rough terrain" is as flat and hard as your table saw. :  What you need is an "all terrain" lift, which could be like a tractor turned backward, or something like Bibbyman's Terex.  A really great alternative would be an old "industrial tractor/loader, something like a Ford 4500.  Some of them have a PTO and 3 point hitch, so you could do away with the other tractor if you could find one like that.

[TnSawyer]

We were kind of in that same boat when we first started.  We looked at tractors and all terrain forklifts and ended up with a fair deal on a case w11 wheel loader with forks and a homemade grapple.  It will carry all that you can get on it.  We paid more for it than we would have a forklift or tractor.  But like you said our sawing time is limited.  I dont like having a monthy payment but the lift really pays for its self in time saved.  Less time fooling with logs and more time sawing them.  If the saw is not running most of us are not making money.  I would go with something other than a tractor with a front end loader.  I have been told that logs are hard on a tractor and might wear the front end out pretty quick if its not a pretty big tractor. It's worth evert penny to have the right tools for the job.  Hope this helps.

[brdmkr]

bush hogging, pulling the trailer loaded with lumber, box blading, hole digging, etc.

Most of these tasks would not work as well with a forklift.  That Mahindra will lift quite a bit.

Will

If I went with a yard lift, I would keep the tractor. 

Dang, The backwards tractor was what I was thinking of.  I know where a couple of these are in use and they are impressive.  The two I know about were purchased at what I would call a pretty good deal ;)  If I went that route, that is what I would go for.

I have been told that the front end on the 4600 SU (what I have) is not strong enough to support a FEL.  It is not nearly as beefy as a 4600 or 4000.  I really could see where the front end would have problems with very much weight up there.

TnSawyer, I know where there is a used (really used) Deere loader right now.  I had even considered that, but not enough to actually check on the price.  Seems like it would be great with logs, but I think moving lumber with it would be tough.

[scsmith42]

Brdmaker, like the consensus, I would recommend a forklift over a new tractor with a FEL.  Here's why...  the tractor FEL combination is better than nothing, but you usually have a hard time seeing the forks from the operators seat, which means you may end up damaging boards and taking more time than needed.  Second, the distance from the wheels to the end of the forks is usually about twice that of a forklift, which means that any differences in slope cause your forks to not alighn properly with the lumber stack.  Also, for serious weight you would need a 4WD tractor with wide front tires (such as industrial tread).

Since you've already got a good Ag tractor, see if you can find a good forklift (rough terrain) to go with it.  The "backwards tractor" models give a lot of bang for the buck, and you should be able to easily get somethign that can pick up 6K - 8K - a good minimum capacity for a sawmill.

A FEL on a tractor would be lucky to pick up 3K at best - another reason to go with the forklift.

Scott

[farmerdoug]

Brdmkr,

I would go with the all terrain forklift(the one that looks like a backwards tractor).

I just picked up an Clark UT-60 forklift for 2750.00 with an rebuilt JD diesel engine in it.  It is rated for 6000 lbs.  I wish I would have bought one years ago for the farm.  There are good deals out there so have fun looking.

Farmerdoug

[tcsmpsi]

brdmkr

What do you want?  Do you want a new tractor?  Just how much more log/lumber hauling are you going to do? 

Without major changes in my own situation (business, family, etc.), in all honesty, I am doing about all the milling I can (and associated processes).  I just turned down a waaaay good deal on a 18 hp log splitter, though wood is our primary source of heat, and it would make a good addition to the foray, I just plain ain't got the time for any more machine maintenance.  If they're used, they gotta be maintained.  If I don't use them, I don't need them.

Now, if I could get a good loader that I could work  with all day for several days without having to fix something, for $2750, well, now that might possibly be a different matter.   ;D 

I was looking at a reasonalby priced Case loader recently, but  it boiled down to I just don't need it, yet.  If/when I turn the business with more milling/woodworking...maybe.  But then, what I have works.  Now, were I get into some really big stuff, it might not, but, though my mill will hold it, it is a pain to handle/mill it in its large size.   I really don't want to fool with anything on the mill larger than 20" or so.   Never really figured on it with this mill/setup.  If the rare occassion arises that a chunk comes through that really would be unique to mill larger, I can scoot it around and push it up ramps with the tractor, if I can't lift it.

I had a little smaller Kubota than I have now, and I worked the dickens out of its loader.  Hard.  Doing a lot of dirt/rock moving (foundations/driveways/landscaping) moving/setting pilings, digging/busting roots with the forks, hauling countless tons of shingles (new and old) digging 16"holes (I know, that ain't the fel)   :D

Pilings ain't logs, but special 80 cca treated, fresh 16'-24' 8X8s ain't light.  I mean, you always carry as many as you can in a trip, right?  (well, yeah, might have to add a bit of ballast to the back)   :D  I never had any trouble with it.   But then, I only worked it for about 5 yrs.

I know, a lot of folks are different, and that's way cool and as it should be.  But my eggheaded self won't allow me to have equipment out in the elements.  So, that would mean I would have to have another building.  And, more taxes...and....   :D

[Warren]

brdmkr,

This turned out longer than expected,, but, my two cents. You need to think about all of the possible things you might want to lift or  move, the ground you need to cover, and the buildings or structures where you might want to move things to or from.

I have a 60hp 2wd tractor with FEL, an ancient Ford skid steer, and a Warner Swasey 8,000 lb capacity off road forklift (ford 3000 tractor turned backwards).  My perspective:

> The skid steer is mighty handy for getting into places the other two won't easily go.  I have an old tobacco barn with a 14 ft alley down the middle and 12 foot bents (bays) to each side. The skid steer can spot an 8 to 9 ft bundle of material into one of the bays with minimal effort.  Downside is it can only lift 1200 lbs max, and that is sitting back close to the carriage.

> The off road forklift will lift anything I bring home, including either end of 48 ft trailers. Handles 16 ft x 30 inch oak logs with no problem.  However, as DanG said, get it off in a soft spot or wet spot, and it's stuck. Even with tractor tires on the front, it still sinks in real easy when it is empty and all of the weight is on the small tires out back.  Also, a tractor type forklift with an 8 or 9 ft wide package of lumber on the forks will not turn into tight places inside a building like a skid steer.

If I had a clear span building with plenty of room to manuever and work in, I would sell the skid steer and keep the forlift. If I only handled smaller logs under 3,000 lbs, I would sell the forklift and trade for a heavier skid steer in the 2,500 to 3,000 lb capacity range.  So in my mind it really depends on what you need to move, and where you are moving it from and to.

Now for the kicker.  I've got significantly less money in the skid steer ($3,100) and forklift ( $4,000) combined than I do in my tractor and FEL. I think if you know what you want, shop around and talk to folks, you will eventually find some good deals on used equipment.  But you gotta know what you need, first.

BTW, the tractor with FEL is perfect for loading round bales of hay onto farm wagons.  Since getting the skid steer and forklift, that's all the tractor FEL gets used for....

Warren

[TnSawyer]

There is one advantage to having a loader with arms and not just forks on a mast.  I dont have room to sort my logs by size I just put them in a couple piles.  With the wheel loader I can grab a log that may be behind a couple logs without moving the ones in front.  And  its easier to load and unload trailers that have sides or fenders.  My loader is 20+ years old.  It looks its age but  runs and operates just fine thats what is important.  Its worth every penny.