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Reverse Roll Quarter Sawing

Started by YellowHammer, December 27, 2016, 01:02:45 AM

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PA_Walnut

Whatever it is, is invisible to my detector...now and before. Maybe I need a new one. However, I always confirm it's working by putting it to my pocket of keys or something and it starts squawking.  :-\

Maybe I need to market it as "Metal Meets Wood: The Showdown" or call it "Peace Era Hardwoods" (no mention of which one) and maybe a bearded dude with a flannel shirt,uncomfortably tight jeans, a MacBook Pro, a Carmel Mocha Orange Zest free-trade coffee and a pocket full of organic cashews with want it.  :D
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

alan gage

I was cutting down some oak trees a few weeks ago and one had heavy iron stain in the butt. It was about 140 years old and the stain looked to be within the first 40 years of its life. The tree was long dead and pretty cracked up so I decided to use it as firewood rather than save it for the sawmill. Started bucking it up and splitting the rounds to see what had caused the stain. All I was able to find was a sliver of a nail that was left. Almost rusted completely away.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

Magicman

I opened one up last week that from the size it obviously had been a small nail, but was now only black powder.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

xlogger

I've just started ΒΌ sawing some lately. Looked over this post several times and agree its slow the way in the video on here did it. But that's the way I did one yesterday and got some nice boards. Question is that I don't have an edger and rrqs might be faster on sawing but how much time again do you have to put in it on edging? Not sure it was worth it. I was planning on getting an edger last year but decided on getting a slabber saw. Still looking for an used one in my area but no luck so far.
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

PA_Walnut

For me, it would be rough w/o an edger or straight-line rip. As a matter of fact, an edger has made ALL of my sawing easier and faster since I really dislike edging on the mill. I can edge a whole day's worth of sawing in less than an hour with someone offloading to stacking.

However, a qsawn board full of flecks is worth a LOT more in my market, so it's worth is to take the extra time and/or labor to make it. I've considering making a "set" or "bundle" of material that is same-tree with the qsawn material featured, but some lesser, perhaps rift sawn lesser boards part of it for rails/stiles, etc. Same-tree sets have a lot of appeal in my market, especially exceptional material.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

PA_Walnut

Well, in the way of an update, the 2nd half of my metal-infested white oak seems to be producing better stuff. However, I think this log is cursed: Had to cut off the flare with my saw and it fell on my toe (yes, I need steel toes NOW), 1/2 fell off the mill when trying to turn it, broke a blade, until finally I shut'er down for the day...had a bourbon and decided to regroup at a later time.

The wide RRQSawn is looking good, allowing 2-3 boards before needing to roll, take a wedge and cut again.
Some of it is getting really pink when the air hits it.







I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

Hope your foot is OK.  The wood looks great.  If your are turning big halves toward the backstops, move the head about midway down the carriage, so it blocks the cant from rolling off.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

YellowHammer

Quote from: WDH on December 11, 2017, 07:52:20 AM
All my white oak pinks up, too.
Its interesting it turns pink, so does my sycamore, which will sometimes turn very red.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

nativewolf

Quote from: PA_Walnut on December 11, 2017, 07:39:22 AM
Well, in the way of an update, the 2nd half of my metal-infested white oak seems to be producing better stuff. However, I think this log is cursed: Had to cut off the flare with my saw and it fell on my toe (yes, I need steel toes NOW), 1/2 fell off the mill when trying to turn it, broke a blade, until finally I shut'er down for the day...had a bourbon and decided to regroup at a later time.

The wide RRQSawn is looking good, allowing 2-3 boards before needing to roll, take a wedge and cut again.
Some of it is getting really pink when the air hits it.







Try a pair of boots with composite toe protection, they are much warmer.  Based on several threads on this forum I bought a pair of Haix and after a bit of wear in they are doing really well right now.  Others make composite as well.  Just one more instance of this forum really helping out, I have cold feet and am a bit clumsy so I was looking for the best boots possible.
Liking Walnut

PA_Walnut

Never thought of that. Great idea. I seems to be having issues of the back edge (toward the uprights) sticking out too far at times and getting the carriage hung-up. This causes a HUGE pita as I have to back out of the cut. Am I doing it wrong?  :-\
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

PA_Walnut

Thanks for the tip. Seems to be on ongoing curse. Over the summer, dropped a HUGE flitch on my toe...will spare the details. Then, just was it was healing...did similar.
Last week, was unhitching my plow off the UTV and dropped the blade edge on the other toe. :(
Steel toes are gonna be my new friend!  :D :D
Quote from: nativewolf on December 11, 2017, 08:01:50 AM
Quote from: PA_Walnut on December 11, 2017, 07:39:22 AM
Well, in the way of an update, the 2nd half of my metal-infested white oak seems to be producing better stuff. However, I think this log is cursed: Had to cut off the flare with my saw and it fell on my toe (yes, I need steel toes NOW), 1/2 fell off the mill when trying to turn it, broke a blade, until finally I shut'er down for the day...had a bourbon and decided to regroup at a later time.

The wide RRQSawn is looking good, allowing 2-3 boards before needing to roll, take a wedge and cut again.
Some of it is getting really pink when the air hits it.







Try a pair of boots with composite toe protection, they are much warmer.  Based on several threads on this forum I bought a pair of Haix and after a bit of wear in they are doing really well right now.  Others make composite as well.  Just one more instance of this forum really helping out, I have cold feet and am a bit clumsy so I was looking for the best boots possible.
I own my own small piece of the world on an 8 acre plot on the side of a mountain with walnut, hickory, ash and spruce.
LT40HD Wide 35HP Diesel
Peterson Dedicated Wide Slabber
Kubota M62 Tractor/Backhoe
WoodMizer KD250 Kiln
Northland 800 Kiln

YellowHammer

Quote from: PA_Walnut on December 11, 2017, 08:03:28 AM
Never thought of that. Great idea. I seems to be having issues of the back edge (toward the uprights) sticking out too far at times and getting the carriage hung-up. This causes a HUGE pita as I have to back out of the cut. Am I doing it wrong?  :-\
You can also forward roll the half log, with the high back edge set up toward the idler wheel, and lower edge against the backstops.  You can get a little more clearance that way.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

kelLOGg

This is my 2nd try at RRQS and since I have a non-hydraulic mill I have taken a slightly different approach. The frequent reverse turning as developed by YH proved too labor intensive on a manual mill so here's what I came up with:
As usual I octagonalize the log and cut 2 to 3 full width boards from the middle leaving 2 almost half logs. Remove 1 half log and saw the other one in large wedges - usually 3 of them. (The log I am working on now is 7.5 ft long and 28 dia so the wedges are fairly easy to relocate to the end of the mill where they are out of the way.) I then have 1 wedge to manipulate which is faster (and safer) than the half log. I am extremely pleased with the ray fleck I got even though the pics don't reveal it very well. If I get good fleck on 1 side I am happy and I usually get dramatic rift pattern on the other. So it is win - win to me. I am a happy camper.
Bob

Below shows the boom loader/turner in reverse roll mode and a come-along which I use to pull the log back to the squaring arms


 

Below shows blocks fastened with c-clamps on the operator side to keep the log from sliding.


 

Below shows adjustable stops on the back side to hold the log in place so the cableing can be removed.


 

Below - making the first wedge cut. (Ignore the upright sq arms. pic taken out of sequence)


 

Below, making the 2nd wedge cut. Looks pretty precarious like a one arm hand stand but it stays stable even for much smaller pieces (fingers crossed)


 

Last 2 pics are some results. Much better in life than in the pics.
 

 

 

 
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Magicman

Looks mighty fine from here and I see nothing wrong with your approach.  If it works, it works.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WDH

Beautiful results.  The proof is in the pudding (old saying). 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

Good work. Those boards look great.  Full wide - full board, fleck.  That's hitting the target.  Something about boards like that make me smile.   :)

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Darrel

Quote from: WDH on January 27, 2018, 09:14:48 PM
Beautiful results.  The proof is in the pudding (old saying).

And that's DanG good pudding. Beautiful results!  Thanks for posting.  And I'm smiling too.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

tburch

Kellog - good post and nice supporting pictures.   Good idea to make 6 big wedges for easier handling.  I like your improvised clamping aids too.   

Question - when you are cutting the almost-half log into 3 wedges, are you also taking (at least) 4 boards at the same time?   For example, in the picture where you are cutting the last wedge off and your blade is lined up with the ray/split, if you raised your blade one board thickness, you could cut a sizable wedge off, then be positioned to lower the band without having to move the log, and take the second cut perfectly on your ray line, and if you lowered the saw another board thickness, you could cut a 2nd board too.  Both would have great figure on at least one side and overall, you would be handing the wedges less, and the wedges would be smaller too.   Maybe you are doing this, but I didn't catch it if you are.   

Todd
Peterson 10" WPF with slabber. Cooks AC36 Diesel.
'94 Ford 4830 Diesel 2WD & FEL.  Norse 450 skid winch.  Logrite fetching arch.  Fransgard Forestry Grapple.

kelLOGg

Todd,

That is a good option but I didn't do it that way because I didn't think of it, but I will try that because it is particularly advantageous for heavier boards due to less weight handling as you point out. What I did was cut the almost-halves into wedges and put the freshly cut wedge face down and cut off the bottom and keep doing so until the fleck diminishes. When there is no more fleck on either face I cut the wedge in half exposing more fleck (the boards are getting pretty narrow now) and keep cutting. I will try your suggestion next. Thanks.

The beuaty of cutting the almost-halves into bulky wedges is that it opens up RRQS to manual mill owners (like me) who don't have hydraulics to deftly rotate/counter rotate/clamp and reduces the weight to be lifted.
Bob


Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

SawyerTed

I don't even have a sawmill yet but am eager to RRQS some of the oak I have ready to mill.

Now for the rookie/dumb question regarding the medullary rays.  They are obviously 3 dimensional rays sort of like spokes of a bicycle wheel but run the length of the log more or less.

What does planing do to the ray flecks?  Can they be planed away?  Or once the board is cut with the faces  perpendicular to the rings and the rays exposed  planing will continue to expose rays as long as planing is parallel to the exposed face of the board?

Please humor the newbie.....
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

kelLOGg

Sawyer Ted,
You are about 2 hours from me. When I have another oak to QS you can come observe if you like.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

YellowHammer

KeLOGg, you show the little L brackets clamped the the square tubing which is very close to how the two plane clamp is positioned for rolling.  So if those two L brackets could slide forward, the log back would rotate against the upright backstops and give you the rolling effect.  If you could get the clamps to move inboard in small jogs, and hold them steady, you could QS the slices in succession, much like using hydraulics. Here is an illustration of what I mean.

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

kelLOGg

How would I get them to move in unison and lock w/o hydraulics? As it is it doesn't take much effort to just to re-clamp. Everything about a manual mill has built-in slowness so I doubt I will change it but if you have a suggestion I am all ears.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

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