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Pictures of Forest Storm Damage

Started by Radar67, October 01, 2005, 08:35:37 PM

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Radar67

Here are a few pictures of what most of our woods and forests look like.










Hope you can make it out. If not, let me know and I'll email them to you directly.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

GregS

Radar,
Very bad!  I have to admit I didn't realize it had effected Mississippi that bad.  I feel for you. 

It seems whenever the forest is starting to look well-groomed the great mother walks in with her boots on and messes things up.  On a positive note it will heal.

Pictures do not do this damage justice, I'm sure.  Is the whole stand effected or just pockets?  Also, are those red pine?

GregS

DanG

Greg, if I had to guess, I'd say that was Slash Pine.  We don't have Red Pine down here.

Mississippi was hit harder than anybody by Katrina.  Most of the news reports have been about New Orleans, but that was because of the floods.  Miss. took the brunt of the storm itself.  I haven't been over there, but I'd say that the pics above were among the lesser damaged stands.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Radar67

Greg,
    The trees are mostly long leaf pine with some loblolly. There is also a mix of hardwoods (oak, persimmon, and sweet gum) The majority of the stand is affected, what the straight line wind didn't get, the tornados did. I have seen stands chopped off half way up, 300 yards wide as far as the eye could see. There are some high resolution arieal photos of the coast at http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/089E30D_KATRINA.HTM

Select a box and you get a picture. I give you fair warning, it is not a pretty sight.

The news media has been so concerned with New Orleans that the damage to MS has been under scored. I know NO was hit hard with the flooding, but damage wise, I think the MS Gulf Coast was the hardest hit.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Jeff

Stew, I don't think I got a chance to welcome you to the forum. Welcome to the forum!  I hope you are enjoying yourself so far, and finding the forum useful as well as entertaining. I'm a little biased, but I think you have found yourself in a very special place here, among a lot of great people. Again Welcome. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Radar67

Jeff,
     Thanks for the welcome. I already feel like a member of the family. Everyone has been so helpful and friendly. I spent about a week just browsing around here before I joined. There is a lot of good information on this site, information from people with experience. A big plus. I'm sure I'll spend a lot of time here (when I'm not sawing)  ;D
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

beenthere

Welcome from me too. I've found your information interesting to read, and wish you well getting some logs moved and sawn.

This thread reminded me of an article in the Hattiesburg, MS paper about the crews working on clearing up downed trees. When I read it, I shudder to think of the great logs (some with metal  :) ) that apparently will be tub ground into mulch or chipped. Also, the hard feelings amongst the locals who have equipment to move logs, that are having to yield to the outside crews coming in and contracted to do the 'moving'.  Hard to avoid these hard feelings I suspect.

Cleaning up Hattiesburg area
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Bibbyman

I've followed the links on the Wood-Mizer web site to and article printed in the USA Today about the forest damage done by Katrina in Mississippi and it's hard to imagine the damage done to the forest and forestry industry in that area.

"Katrina Turned Lush Forests Into Waste Lands" - USA Today

On one hand you've got the an extreme high need (and prices) for building materials in that area to rebuild and then you've got the raw materials that is down and no way to recover much of it in any timely manor.  The article states that the glut on the market – plus many of the mills being shut down because of the hurricane and damage – the market for logs is very depressed.  The impact is a disaster for the area and will affect us all for a long time to come.

Questions for Radar67 and anyone else in that region... 

I've driven through Mississippi and remember a lot of pine plantations.  How will they try to recover the logs from these plantations?  Ain't the normal mode of harvest by clear cutting using harvesters?  How will they work with all the down timber?  How could they just cut the down and damaged timber and not cut the trees still viable?   Ain't it going to be a lot more dangerous to harvest with lodged trees and broken limbs and tops to deal with?  Are they going to be able to recover any large amount before the blue stain sets in?

And, let's say there is a stand that's 10 years from being ready for harvest and is only 50% damaged.  What would be the impact 10 years from now with all those downed and damaged trees on the forest floor?  Fire hazard?  Insect infestation?

One of the loggers (in mid-Missouri) that deliver logs here at our mill was contacted to go to Mississippi to cut downed timber.  But, like most everyone else,  it'll be difficult.  They're already committed to their harvesting projects and have their customers waiting for logs.  The logistics of moving all their equipment and crews is a hard one.  Their crew members all have families to look after.  Then where would they stay when they got there?

When life squeezes your lemons,  maybe it's time to make lemonade!  Looks like a real opportunity for anyone with a mobile mill that can re-locate in that area for the fall, winter and early spring.  I think of all the "snow birds" that get in their RVs and head south in the winter anyway.  Just make a contact down there for a place to park and set up and hitch up your mill and head south.

An even wilder idea...  It's been reported that there is a frenzy of selling off of damaged property in the Gulf States.  It may be and opportunity to buy that 40 acres of retirement land and turn that downed timber into a cabin and other outbuildings.

I'd like to drive down a see the damage but I just don't want to be in the way. Mary and I talked about going down and helping owners of new mills get stated sawing their timber (through Wood-Mizer's efforts). We'd love to do it but we've got too many mouths to keep fed at home.

Good luck to you Radar67 and keep us posted. 


Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

eldorado

I live about 25 miles north of Vicksburg and had a lot of damage all the way up here. Not nearly as bad as south MS, but it was bad enough for me.  About 15% of my timber is on the ground....all hardwoods, mostly cherrybark oak....a hair less than 1200 acres....managed for cherrybarks since the early 1900's.
When the power came back on, I went to looking for reviews on portable mills...that's how I found this forum. 
As soon as I finish clearing roads on the place, I'm going to buy a mill and make some lemonade out of this truckload of lemons that Katrina dumped on me.....I see a lot of cherrybark lumber in my future.  ;D   



Bibbyman

Cherry bark?  Is that a variation in the white oak family?

It least oak will keep for awhile and not be attacked by blue stain. 

I'd love to come and help but that dowg looks a little mean!  :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

eldorado

Cherrybark is a red oak (aka swamp red oak).  Quercus pagoda to be exact  ;D.  It grows faster than any pine would grow in these loessial soils around here (foothills of the delta....limestone deposits and soil finer than baby powder)...grows best on the sides and bottoms of ridges.....In my area it's a money tree.

If you want some acorns, let me know....they are just starting to drop.   


That dog is Delta, my puppy...she was marking her first blind retrieve in that pic...I was  was proud of her at the time. Now she won't even chase a hot biscuit, but she has developed a taste for armadillos....I receive a few as gifts each week....complete with a chewed off head. At least she's not messing with my turkey birds.....she'd no longer be here if she had an appetite for turkeys.  :)

BW_Williams

Hey Radar67 and Eldorado, great to hear from some MS fellas.  Sorry to hear about your trees.  I was is Gulfport a week ago and sure wish I could have milled a few of the yard trees that were down.  Did see some cut to sawlog length and even had been sealed.  My advice to y'all is if they are off the ground leave 'em, if on the ground buck and seal the ends ASAP and of course get them off the ground.  I know y'all will make the best of the situatuion, that's what we do, we're just Americans, sounds like Woodmizer is really stepping up to help get some of this windfall put to a good use.  BWW
Support your local Volunteer Fire Dept.  (not by accident)
Support your local Ski Patrol (by snowboarding:)
Mayor of Millerdale, Washington, USA (by God)!

Radar67

Bibbyman,
     To answer your question, not all tree farmers clear cut their stands, some do select cuts. The loggers here are able to go in and take out select trees without damaging the others. As for getting in to get them, that is another problem. It is going to be a slow go to get timber off the ground and out of the woods. Looking at my small stand, I have concluded that the only way to get the timber is to go in and seal as many logs as possible, elevate them, then start at the begining and work my way in to get what I can save. The timber on the ground does present a serious fire hazard; South MS is currently under a burn ban to help prevent a serious fire.

Eldorado,
     I'm familiar with your area, used to do some hunting at Shipland and DNF.

BW,
     I have had so many people wanting to give me trees it wasn't funny. I have three people providing me logs now and it's really more than I can handle. One guy had 50 acres of mixed timber, he told me to come get all I wanted. I am going to build my stock pile up and hope for the best. Looks like I will be doing some serious sawing this winter.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

beenthere

Radar67
Question about the storm damage.  How have the railroads handled the trees and debris on their tracks?  Just curious, as they must be near stopped in their 'tracks' (or on them :) ) however they may have been stopped even before the storm. 

My B.I.L. in Hattiesburg says maybe another 4 weeks to get phone service. Apparently the phone lines are not under ground there?  Been under here for 30 years or more.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Radar67

Beenthere,
     The railroads have faired well. Most of the locomotives have a wedge blade on front to push the debris out of the way. The tressle bridges had to be inspected before they could cross. The RR was actually the best way to transport material and equipment to the coast as they were running within two days after the storm, it took almost two weeks to get all the roads clear.

I work just south of Hattiesburg. The majority of the phone service has been recovered, there are only a small percentage of people who still do not have phone service. The cell services are fully functional, except for areas on the coast where they lost towers. Phone nor electric is undergound here. I thought this would have been an opportune time to place both underground. Using my electric power association as an example, they lost 100% of their infastructure, rather than place it underground, they built it back the way it was. I lost electricity for 17 days, I would have been willing to wait another week or so if they would have put it underground, just to have peace of mind that storms wouldn't take it out again. I am seriously considering a solar system when I build my house on my property.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

DanG

BT, the phone system isn't just cables and wires any more.  Most rural areas, and some urban, are served by these roadside concentrators.  They are fed by underground fiber optic cables, but they don't work very well under water.  It just takes a while to get all of them working again.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Woodcarver

Radar67 I'd like to add a welcome from another Stew.  My family and friends call me Stew, also.  My first name is Robert, but I grew up using my middle name, Stewart.  Over the years I've bumped into a Stu or two.  You are the first I know of that uses the same spelling as I do.  Welcome to the forum.
Just an old dog learning new tricks.......Woodcarver

Radar67

Thanks Stew. Mine comes from my last name, Stewart. My RC flight instructer started calling me that many years ago.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

BW_Williams

Stew, y'all try to sell the logs?  With all the trucks heading in with relief supplies, they need a load for the return trip.  Find a truck heading to WA to pick up apples and pears and stuff some red oak in it I think we could make a buck or 2!  I'd take any millable sawlogs from the South, that arent quarenteened.  Funny about nicknames aint it, there was 3 Bryans on my 3rd grade class, I've been BW ever since.
Support your local Volunteer Fire Dept.  (not by accident)
Support your local Ski Patrol (by snowboarding:)
Mayor of Millerdale, Washington, USA (by God)!

Radar67

I'm not sure want the private land owners are doing, personally, I'm trying to get mine sealed and off the ground for sawing. Most of the timber on the roadways is being chipped up. Some of the managed areas are being logged.

I have not heard of any quarrentined timber....yet. I have also not seen very many trucks coming through my area with relief supplies (a couple with water and MREs is about it).
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Our church will be organizing a work team for the area soon.

Personally, I have been toying with the idea of sawing a couple of weeks
to help locals with their need of useable lumber.   It there a  church
who is doing such hands-on work which might go hand in hand with
the lumber a Peterson 10" WPF could spit out for them?  It can saw anything
from 10" to 60" diameter.  I have 52 feet of track available, which means
it could produce beams up to 46 ft. long.

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

Radar67

I don't know of a church personally, but the First Baptist Church of Hattiesburg has been operating a kitchen and clothing drive. They may be able to direct you. I don't have a contact name, but the number is 601-544-0100.

Laurel also took a hard hit, the First Baptist Church there is 601-649-5710.

Again, I do not have any personal contacts with either, just giving you some info to get you on the right track.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

DanG

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' 'bout! 8) 8)  Here is a way many of us could help out in a meaningful way.  Can ya just picture a whole bunch of ForestryForum members donating services together?  Even if it was only for a weekend, we could stack up a hekkuva WHACK of lumber!  Y'all think about it! ;D 8) ;D 8)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

yelnats

Radar67 - I was told to look you up on this forum by Jeff Warner in McComb.  Could you send me your e-dress so I could communicate privately about a logging matter in Miss.  My e-mail is charles.s.thigpen@ssa.gov  Thanks

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Thanks, Radar.

I have friends here who are looking for contact persons via their relatives
out in Mississippi, also.   I will post  what I find.

HEY ANYBODY OUT THERE IN DISASTER LAND.    
Start cuttin' stickers.   
Ya' gonna' need a bunch!


Wonder if Breeze-Dried would donate a load of them nice ones?

Phil L.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

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