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Lt 40 Engine issues

Started by Waterford Woodworks, August 23, 2013, 09:15:51 AM

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Waterford Woodworks

Where to start? Love my mill and woodmizer support for the few occasions I've had to use them.
       So I have a 2006 lt 40 manual mill 28 hp kohler fuel injected motor, I bought new, with almost 400 hours on it now. Running the mill the other day and the motor just wasn't running right at high rpm, at idle it runs normal, when I engage the clutch it revs a little higher then normal and then drops to normal rpm, but in the cut it is really under powered. There are no codes given from the on board computer. I tested the fuel pump pressure and it is 39+ or-1. Thought maybe it was the throttle positioning sensor, installed a new one, no luck. Went ahead and did my 400 hour maintenance and all is good except the high rpm power issue. Also called woodmizer and they helped give me direction on what to check an how to do it. Checked the governor setting per their instruction, nothing. Now I'm at a loss and frustrated.
       Has anyone ever had similar issues that could give me an idea of where to go from here? The issue is stopping me from doing the jobs I have lined up. Thanks, Jason
2006 Lt40 Super Cat 51, Allis Chalmers 185
"Keep doing what your doing and you'll keep getting what your getting, life is what you make of it."

ronwood

Welcome to the forum. I have one suggestion which may not be the cause. Did you check to see if the vent on the gas cap on the fuel tank is open. I left mine close one time after I filled up the tank and it would not run very good.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

ladylake


Fuel filter maybe.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Waterford Woodworks

Checked the vent, it's open, changed the fuel filters and checked the spark plugs yesterday. Sawing now but it's underpowered. Trying to see if the MIL will come on and give me a code for the problem. Thanks for the efforts
2006 Lt40 Super Cat 51, Allis Chalmers 185
"Keep doing what your doing and you'll keep getting what your getting, life is what you make of it."

DR_Buck


If all your filters are clean, including air filter, I'd change the gas and try again.  Maybe run some injector cleaner through in case you gummed something up.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

John_Haylow

Hi Jason,
Welcome to the forum.
Have you checked the quick coupler connections on your fuel tank, sometimes the o-rings will go bad and cause problems. I had it happen on mine and it had me scratching my head, same motor.
John
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28

T Welsh

Jason, I have an older LT40-HD. I just got done fixing a fuel problem on my Kohler Command 25hp. Its not fuel injected,but I went through its fuel system top to bottom, mine would not run off of choke! Ran fine the last time I used it! Here is what to check all connections and the tank vent,verify you are getting unrestricted fuel flow to the injectors.Next check the fuel solenoid for proper operation. This was my problem!!!!! I removed it off the carb and bench tested it and it was intermittent,I cleaned the connections and installed it and BAM it ran fine!!
Everyone I have talked to has had fuel issues with these engines. I put a new fuel filter,lines and a pump on,cleaned the carb twice and then I found the problem with the solenoid not working correctly. But at least I am up and running! Hope this helps! Tim

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I always start with fresh gas and check the air filter.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

AdamT

I have a 2011 with the Kohler 28 horse. Last summer I had a similar problem, checked fuel lines, pump, plugs etc with no luck. That pretty much maxed out my engine diagnosis ability.  Someone told me it sounded like a valve issue. I took the valve covers off and sure enough, there it was. The exhaust valve had vibrated off the rocker (not sure if that's the correct term) and wasnt allowing the exhaust valve to function. Called WM to find out the torque requirement, and haven't had a problem since.

I've also heard these engines don't like to run in the heat. Which is odd to me, for as long as engines have been being made.

2017 Wood-Mizer LT40HDD35-RA
2011 Wood-Mizer LT40 HD

It's better to have it and not need it then it is to need it and not have it

Magicman

I have a different engine but Welcome to the Forestry Forum.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Waterford Woodworks!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

hackberry jake

I second what Adam T said. My 20hp honda did the same thing.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

YellowHammer

Welcome to the Forum, too bad its not under better circumstances.
You may have already checked it out, but Kohler has an excellent website with  their service manuals online for free. I've had to use it every now and then. 
http://www.kohlerengines.com/manuals/landing.htm
They contain fairly detailed diagnostic information.  I was just browsing through one that may have been similar to your engine, and see why Woodmizer had you adjust the governor.  Not only does it need to be checked for position, but sensitivity as well.

This is quoted right from their service manual:
"If a big drop in speed occurs when normal load is applied, governor should be set for greater sensitivity and adjusted." It then proceeds to give detailed instructions depending if you have an electronic governor or not. 
It's also possible that something on your governor has broken or come loose, such as a spring, not just out of adjustment.

Just trying to help
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Waterford Woodworks

Hey everyone,
       thanks for all the replies. Ran the mill yesterday after checking the governor setting(seemed to be in normal position but I'll check the sensitivity as soon as I can) I also tried installing a new throttle positioning sensor, even though the mill wasn't showing any codes. Didn't fix the problem. Reinstalled the original TPS. Clean air filter and new fuel filters. Fuel pump is reading 39+or-1 psi. Spark plugs have been checked and both cylinders are firing.
       For some reason after going through all of this the mill did seam to run better, but it is not 100%. I haven't checked the engine rpm yet, I still need to buy a tach.
       Adam, when you had the issue with the exhaust valve, did your engine still run and idle correctly? Did the issue happen all of the sudden or was it a gradual getting worse situation? Where are you in Indiana? I'm in Bloomington.
       Mike and Ron at Woodmizer have been great help giving me different things to check.
                  Thanks again, Jason
2006 Lt40 Super Cat 51, Allis Chalmers 185
"Keep doing what your doing and you'll keep getting what your getting, life is what you make of it."

redbeard

My similar problem earlier this summer was cracks letting air in on the fuel line from tank to fuel pump. I learned that tape gets you by but replace fuel lines right away when you notice cracks.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

woodmills1

My edger has a 25 fuel injected kohler
It is a 2005 with very few hours on it
I have done away with the quick connections, as they gave me issues
Last month I changed all of the fuel lines due to sun degrade
I really like how smooth this motor is, but have dealt with many fuel issues
this motor sat for nearly 3 years unused as the owner passed
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

thecfarm

Waterford Woodworks,welcome to the forum. Brought the mill in 2006 and have you been doing custom sawing since? With a manual mill do you have a Logrite peavey or cantdog?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Brucer

I've got a 2006 LT40 hydraulic with the same engine, only I'm getting close to 2300 hours. I've had "lack of power" problems a few times, and there were two basic causes.

Most common cause is the O-rings in the metal quick-connect coupler. The engine will often run fine with a damaged O-ring in cooler weather. When it gets really hot, though, you won't get enough fuel. Do a visual check on the fuel filter that's on the line beside the tank -- if the fuel level drops right to the bottom when you rev the engine, that's probably your problem.

I couldn't get the O-rings from Wood-Mizer so I got some from an automotive shop. Turns out they weren't meant for use with gasoline and they quickly got soft -- and tore. I finally ended up buying new fittings from WM.

The second cause was a stuck check valve on the fuel return line where it plugs into the tank. That only happened once. The fuel injector pump always supplies fuel at the maximum rate. Any surplus that the engine doesn't need returns to the tank through a relief valve, which sets the pressure in the fuel rail that feeds the injectors. But if the excess fuel can't get back into the tank, then the pressure goes way up and forces too much fuel into the engine. In effect you would be running the engine in a nearly flooded condition. This is always accompanied by clouds of dark smoke.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

tjhammer

  I haven't been into my 25 kolher yet don't know if it has 2 coils I had a 23hp kaw ran good in idle but when under load it had no power so I ck the coil one bank was dead,ck while in idle pull plug wires one at a time if you have a bad coil it will kill eng when you pull the good one or could be breaking down on high rpm
                                                                                       TJ
hammer

Waterford Woodworks

Thanks for the replies on the fuel connection o rings. Sounds like that could be the problem because it started all of the sudden. I'm working at the fire dept today and will check it as soon as I get home. I'll be sure to keep you updated in case this happens to anyone else. Thanks for the direction from all of you. Jason
2006 Lt40 Super Cat 51, Allis Chalmers 185
"Keep doing what your doing and you'll keep getting what your getting, life is what you make of it."

customsawyer

Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

sawmillhand

I don't have a engine like yours but I have a older onan p224 and was thinking about upgrading but after hearing all these problems about the kohler engine kinda makes me think twice about getting one.
1990 woodmizer LT40 Hyd  2004 Ford F350 Flatbed. Plenty of tractors.

Brucer

Except for the worn O-ring problem on the tank, my Kohler EFI engine has been rock solid. Turn the key and it starts: -25°C to +35°C (-15°F to +95°F).

The issue with the check valve on the return line was entirely my fault -- I changed the style of connector on the return line and created a situation where it was possible for the check valve to remain "checked" all the time. If I'd stuck with the original connector it wouldn't have happened.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Waterford Woodworks

       All is well, not sure what exactly fixed the problem but when the mill is back up and running the way it should, who cares. So, I changed the orings on the fuel tank and the problem seemed to go away for a bit but reoccurred while sawing the first log, called woodmizer and ordered new fuel filters and went ahead and ordered a new tension gauge for checking the drive belt tension just to be sure. Received the parts and gauge the next day. Changed out the fuel filters(which I had already done earlier in the troubleshooting process) and checked the drive belt tension and found it to be at 5 pounds instead of the 14 pounds(I think) it was supposed to be. My other gauge was way off so it found a place in the round file. This caused me to have to re-adjust the clutch brake and throttle cable, and then the governor that I had messed with previously trying to solve the problem.
       After all was said and done the mill is running great and back to what I would say was factory specs. All in all there was a lot of weeping and nashing of teeth but I want to thank everyone, and Woodmizer, that helped give me some direction on things to look for. Thanks also for the forestry forum administrator for having such a great website for those helpless souls like me.
                                            Jason Waterford
2006 Lt40 Super Cat 51, Allis Chalmers 185
"Keep doing what your doing and you'll keep getting what your getting, life is what you make of it."

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