Sawmill Yard Layout

TexasTimbers · January 30, 2007, 07:37:14 AM

The answer is "It's too small Kevin" I just thought I would get that out of the way so we can move on. I know it's too small but it's all i have until my neighbor decides to sell me the 30 acres on my ats side that he has said he will. Until then, i need some of you profeshinuls to tell me how to manage this mess. I hope you can rread it.

The olny thing that is actually permanent right now is the cover labeled "Current Manual Mill". i don't want to have to move that it has a concrete pad and nice steel cover - no sides. the manual mill will probably go unless I can justify keeping it but with an LT40 Super now in the picture I can't see how I can justify keeping it.

I suppose that the super could take the place of the manual mill but the pad is up off the ground fairly high - still not a problem really because I don't plan to move the LT40 often. Don't "plan to" but want to keep the option.

I realize i have to have an area for transient slab piles (the circle mill tosses them off to the south side where I have my "cants" planned to go gotta make a mod on the mill for that), log storage, sawdust trailer north of the circle. What have I forgotten and would someone please look at my drawing and advise what, besides too little room, I am going to run into?

Air drying sheds are out of the picture - I don't mean I won't have them I mean I have room for them but they will be just south of what is sjhown on the drawing. The kilns too can go next to my shop where one already is not shown in picture. Made thie pic big as it would let em hope it's readable . . .

footer · January 30, 2007, 01:20:56 PM

If you can justify it a manual mill would be great to put a resaw attatchment on and just leave it there. IF you need to resaw, just start it up and feed them through.

BBTom · January 30, 2007, 02:14:31 PM

Hard to guess with not seeing the layout in person. but here goes..
Put the new mill where the manual is now, giving you shade to saw in and a solid base

Rig up a deck for the cants with some type of loader for the back side of the new mill. something like a live deck with folding arms to slide the cant onto the mill. Not attached to the mill so it may still go portable.

Then you don't have to move the cants at all, just the lumber. Offloading the Mizer (with the help of rollers) to the same place as you offload the edger.

TexasTimbers · January 30, 2007, 03:03:22 PM

Quote from: footer on January 30, 2007, 01:20:56 PM
If you can justify it a manual mill would be great to put a resaw attatchment on and just leave it there. IF you need to resaw, just start it up and feed them through.

I wish you would elaborate on the resaw attachment a little more..

BBTom, I am going to cover everything with open sheds at least. No way I am working all day in the hot Texas sun during the summer. I finally went from being tough enuf to do it to smart enuf not to.
The reason I didn't want to put any kind of conveyor between the circle and the resaw, or new hydraulic mill if that's where I put it, is so I can still drive between them all the way around, although I don't have any specific reason for wanting to do this other than I don't like to block pathways. Maybe I will have to put the hyraulic mill pretty much right beside the circle mill at the end where the cants offload. But this gets back to the resaw attachmnet for a manual mill I can't figure what footer is talking about.

DanG · January 30, 2007, 03:20:11 PM

I'm a little confuzzed. ??? What exactly do you have now, Kev. Is it a manual circle mill or a manual bandmill, or both?

Percy · January 30, 2007, 03:23:32 PM

Quote from: kevjay on January 30, 2007, 07:37:14 AM
The answer is "It's too small Kevin"

:D :D :D Sorry KJ. Just bein a jerk.

Seriously, the way I see it, you have about 75 feet x200 feet to place the two mills(circle and WM), an edger and live deck. If it were me, Id have the WM and circle feed the live deck with the edger on the other side of it. You could pile stuff near the manual mill and cope till you got a bigger place......good luck
Percy

TexasTimbers · January 30, 2007, 03:33:58 PM

DanG ,

Well I have both a little circle tie mill and a big circle hydraulic/electric, but I am only going to set up the hydraulic circle mill, an edger, and the hydraulic bandmill. but footer says I can add some sort of resaw attachment to the manual mill but I am not familiar with this.

So, What I am wanting to do:

Knock slabs and a flitch or two from each side of logs with circle.
Send flitches to edger
Send cants to bandsaw/resaw?
Send Cedar to dry stacks hardwoods to air drying sheds prior to kiln

I will be cutting about 50% cedar and 50% mixed hardwoods. Roughly.

Percy it's okay to be a jerk I have been called worse and anyway no one appreciates a good laugh more than me. ;)

beenthere · January 30, 2007, 04:15:01 PM

kevjay
How about some 'movable' conveyors that could be across the drives, but easily picked up with forks and set off to the side when not milling? Even rollways that could be positioned easily on setup to move slabs and lumber to appropriate bunks from the different mill stations might smooth out your flow. On the order of what Bibbyman has done to help handle material.

Is this the 'area' that you wanted to lay down the concrete slab? Or is that off the front burner now?

TexasTimbers · January 30, 2007, 04:58:36 PM

Movable conveyors are a good idea bt, but the slab under the circle saw is out becuase i need to spend the money in other areas, so I am going to do elevated concrete bunks or piers with a cedar deck built around it. You think that will work?

Ron Wenrich · January 30, 2007, 05:54:10 PM

Is the hydraulic mill installed or is that something that can be put anyplace? Any reason to keep the manual mill?

If it was me, I would design it so that I could either saw on one machine or the other. Put the circle mill to the back, and nest the bandmill to the front. That way you'll be able to access it for portability and putting the big uglies on with a loader. If you're making the bandmill permanent, then I would think of a log deck.

I would run all my lumber and slabs from both mills onto a common green chain. If you're thinking of putting in a chipper, you can do that at the end of the green chain. If you want to resaw cants, simply get them off the green chain and take them to your bandsaw. I would put the edger so that it can be from the green chain.

Sawdust could be collected in a common auger, conveyor, barn cleaner or other contraption to take it to a blower. It would service the mills and the edger, if need be.

A lot depends on what you want to do and how much money you want to throw at it.

scsmith42 · January 30, 2007, 08:26:59 PM

Kevin, I'm far from being an expert here, but the thing that I wondered about was how to easily remove your slabs and sawdust. Seems to me that you might want to increase the spacing on the upper side of the mill line for waste byproduct, with room to get a loader in for spoils removal.

jon12345 · January 30, 2007, 10:42:33 PM

Could ya move the mobile bandmill over by the edger, send flitches and cants both toward the edger with a switch to control whether they go through the edger or on to the mobile? This would eliminate the need to transfer them with skidsteer, but would require another chain. ???

TexasTimbers · January 31, 2007, 12:04:15 AM

Nothing is set in stone, except the covered pad where the manual bandmill now sits. I can move the mill itself out of course. I just keep wondering what is the story on this resaw attachment. Doesn't sound like anykind of production from something that attaches to a bandmill but I don't know anything about it ???
I am mulling over all these ideas I have to redraw what Ron, Scott, and Jon have suggested to see it, and decide how I want to do it.
Ron I don't want to throw any more money at it other than getting it all set up right now. I have some operating $ set aside for once all the blades are turning. Feeding it logs for all this year and prolly most of next is no problem for just transportation costs and that will be minimal.
But I don't want to spend beaucoup on equipment unless it is absolutley essential right now. Yes I know for example a grinder/mulcher would be nice but not right now. I am still throwing money at building a house,too.

Tom · January 31, 2007, 12:28:31 AM

The resaw attachment is a device that was/is(?) built by Woodmizer. Basically it consists of a conveyer belt that runs beneath the bandblade and incorporates spring loaded wheels for pressing down on the material.

You set the mill at the desired height and put the cant on the conveyer belt. The conveyor belt runs it through the blade and cuts a board off of the bottom of the cant.

The positve side of the setup is that you can run cants through it butted against one another such that the blade is never out of wood. The cants are returned to the input side and run through again.

It can be used to capture boards fom slabs that would have normally been thrown away.

Beause the head of the mill never moves, the thickness of the boards is constant.

Ron Wenrich · January 31, 2007, 05:59:50 AM

Dust
___________________________________
: : : _________________ circle mill __________
: : : _____________ : : :
: : : [_____Mizer____] : : :
: Green: : Log :
: Chain : : Deck:
: : :
: : :
Edger : : :
Slabs

A rough idea about what I was describing. Green chains are fairly simple to either build or cheap to buy a used one. It saves a lot of steps, especially if you are working by yourself. The green chain is put at the end of the off bearer on the circle mill.

This setup allows a common area to put all sawn lumber and your waste products. Do not spend time or money handling waste. The edger can be set up on either side, but if you put it in front of the Mizer, you lose some access to it. Putting it at the end of the chain allows you to load up the deck before you have to do any edging.

TexasTimbers · January 31, 2007, 07:29:18 AM

Ron that looks nice and simple. The only thing I would do different is relocate the bandmill at the end of the chain. Any reason not to do this? this keeps me from modding the outfeed on the circle mill. It takes the slab on automatic rollers and send them about 40' down the line then kicks them off into a pile where I have them marked. I could set up another outfeed where they could land on and roll somewhere else.
How high off the ground should I set the whole thing? I have been told by several that it needs to be high. or else I have to dig a pit of course that's true the blade is 56"
How does this config look? Just copied and pasted all your hard worlk but relocated the mizer. Any reson this won't be effecient?
Then, here's the $64,000 question. Is a WM resaw attachment more effecient than what the bandmill will be for 8" - 20" cants? That resaw attachment sounds like a Cook's saw with the conveyor and stationary head that the guy down the highway runs.
I really don't need to have a ton of volume I don't have a ton of overhead. Probably more than I realize and al lbut we aren't servicing debt or mortgages etc. so I want to make it streamlined and effecient but I don't have to do 10KBF a day lif this gives you a better idea of what I am trying to accomplish. If I cut and process 2000+ BF a day that's plenty for a good paying hobby! By process I mean to stickered for the hardwoods and to planed and sold or deadstacked for the cedar.

Dust
___________________________________
: : : _________________ circle mill __________
: : : : : :
: : : SLABS : : :
: Green: : Log :
: Chain : : Deck:
: : :
: : :
Edger : : :
______________
[_____Mizer_____]

Warren · January 31, 2007, 09:07:15 AM

KJ,

You might want to talk to the WM folks about their resaw attachment. When I looked at it last fall at the Indy open house, I got the impression (from the WM rep) that it was more for occassional use. Not for full time production work like in a pallet shop.

Warren

TexasTimbers · January 31, 2007, 09:51:11 AM

Well that's what i have been getting at really without saying it - I don't think of it as production either but I know i have a habit of being wrong. :D

Tom · January 31, 2007, 10:57:02 AM

After consuming a lot of this, I'm forming a recommendation.

I think you should operate either the circle mill or the LT40 super. Each are capable of 2000 Bf a day.

The manual mill shed would make a decent place for temporary storage of stickered stock and/or a place to put planers and such, if you go that route. Who knows, maybe there is a fence company in the works.

That area where the trucks drive might be better used as a log yard.

If it is just you sawing, storage is going to be more important than production. Like a carpenter with two hammers, you will soon find yourself with one of them on the truck.

A drawing more to scale would do you a lot of good now. I think you have more room than you are giving yourself in the drawings above. Putting the LT40 where you can take advantage of the edger, green chain and waste disposal is optimum. So, put two little marks on the LT40 to represent the loader and keep in mind that, in most operations, the lumber comes off of the back end of the saw.

It might be easier to stack cants and move them to the LT 40 later (with a forklift) than try to make a production line off of the circle mill. Eventually, the faster mill will over-run the slower mill and you will be dead in the water, unless you have a storage area in between.

I'd keep the LT40 portable too. That may open you up to a lot more wood than having to truck everything to your static setup.

What your neighbor has sounds like a resaw with a turn-around. If you get into resawing, one built for the job will be worth more than an attachment for the mill. Arkansawyer built one for his mill. You might try what he did before you spend the money on a manufactured one. Most of the manufactured ones are for pallet companies and will saw only about 12" wide. There are some grade saw resaws that will cut a little wider. I don't think you will find one that will take a 20" cant.

DanG · January 31, 2007, 11:31:38 AM

I think some of the earlier confusion came from some of us assuming that the manual mill was a bandmill.

If you're going to be working alone, you're going to be limited more by the amount of product you can handle, rather than how much product you can produce, IMO. I work alone(when I work at all :

) and I have found it best to stack and sticker each board as it comes off the mill, then move the whole stack with the forklift. I don't want to touch a board the second time until it is going on the customer's trailer, if then.

Furby · January 31, 2007, 05:13:13 PM

I think you are going to kill yourself trying to get both these mills running.
Start with the Super under the shed roof and get a feel for it.
After you know what it can do, THEN work towards setting up the rest of the stuff.

Ron Wenrich · January 31, 2007, 05:39:13 PM

I'm kind of curious why you need 2 mills, too. If you're looking at 2 Mbf/day , you should be able to do that in 1/2 a day or less on a circle mill. Just remember that one of those mills will be sitting idle, and has consumed some of your investment capital. It will cause your production costs to go up.

Throwing slabs onto conveyors then stacking slabs is a dead end street. You're wasting time that could be spent on doing something productive, like sawing or planing or stickering. What do you plan to do with the slabs? 2 Mbf/day will give you 20 tons by the end of the week. Solve your waste problems ahead of time or you'll drown in it.

I had given it some thought today, and another option for the mizer is to the far side of the green chain. You want both mills to have common use of the chain and the edger. And you all your waste in one common area, if possible.

___________ ___________________________
___Mizer____ : : : ___________Circle Mill _________
: : :
Green
Chain
: : :

This setup gives you better access to your Mizer for portability. Since you won't be running both mills, you can swing it out of the way if you are doing really long timbers. If you are going to resaw, then you can put your cants in a bundle and take them to the Mizer, as Tom suggested. With hardwoods, you need an edger to upgrade some of the boards, even after resawn.

footer · January 31, 2007, 08:39:01 PM

Quote from: kevjay on January 30, 2007, 03:03:22 PM
Quote from: footer on January 30, 2007, 01:20:56 PM
If you can justify it a manual mill would be great to put a resaw attatchment on and just leave it there. IF you need to resaw, just start it up and feed them through.

I wish you would elaborate on the resaw attachment a little more..

sorry, I thought you had a manual band mill, and woodmizer makes a resaw attatchment that you could use if indeed you had a bandmill.
resaw attatchment

Norwiscutter · January 31, 2007, 09:39:29 PM

As an alternative thought, I would consider spending as much as you can on a nice looking rustic climitized wood storage retail area. I would rather be low on moving inventory than high on an iventory that I can't move. Create a demand, than fill it.

Ron Wenrich · February 01, 2007, 05:49:39 AM

Your sawmill should be raised up. Digging the pit is no big deal. You only have a little bit of the blade below ground level and you need some extra clearance. I used a pit with a dust drag, and it worked very well. I've also seen blowers put in the pits.

But, the real reason to raise the mill is so the lumber comes out at a reachable level. You want it about waist high so you're not bending over to move or stack lumber. It really saves the back, and it makes the job a lot easier.

Raising the mill also makes it easier to clean under.