MD VW Woes

[Paul_H]

My VW motor on the MD was rebuilt a couple of years ago and has run pretty good for awhile  but has started to give me some grief.

It crapped out on me yesterday while milling Birch,It sputtered a bit and then died on me.I found that the gas filter had water in it and so did the float bowl in the carb.I cleaned it all out carefully and then blew it out with the air hose.Tried it again but no go 
Took the top off of the magneto and cleaned the points with crocus cloth and checked things out,looks good so I put it back together.

I should mention that the engine is a pull rope start and I've been cranking on it for hours.Finally got it running today but it is finicky and once I shut it off,it takes 6-10 pulls to get it running again.

There are a couple of things I haven't tried yet.One is to replace the points and condenser.I ordered them today so won't see them until Saturday.

The other idea is to take the metal pry bar that came with the mill and give the engine a serious thrashing with it,but first I think I'll unload the kiln and wait for the parts to arrive Saturday.

It's getting personal  ???

[Tom]

You can discount the radiator, Paul.  They must make'm good for those engines 'cause you never hear of any problems from them.

When VW's were so popular in the 60's, I remember that they needed to be "decarboned" frequently and a top-end job to return compression fairly frequently as well.

Just as an interesting side note, the VW dealerships, and a separate shop called Autohaus, I think, would work on the little cars as if they were patients in a hospital.  You made an appointment and your car was taken into a maticulously cleaned bay where the mechanic's tools were spread on a white sheet. The mechanic was in dark trousers, a white shirt and wore a tie.  One of the first things he did was to drop the engine.   

As the owner, you waited in the waiting room where there was a TV and magazines.

[Paul_H]

Ole,from Olemotive, the repair shop yust down da road is a Dane and worked for VW in Europe. I just spoke with him on the phone and he told me to knock the carb of the top of the engine with the pry bar and bring it in for a cleaning so I'll give that a try.

Ole is a good sport.When I had problems with the engine a couple of years ago,he came and watched me pull my guts out trying to start the DanG engine.He had a screw driver in his hand and after I pulled a half dozen times,he would make a small adjustment and let me pull some more.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Shoot fire, Paul, put a DanG starter on that thing  ;D ;D

  I once mounted a Mazda starter on a Peckerwood motor. Had to engage the bendix by hand, but, NO crankin or pullin.  ;D ;D

[Paul_H]

I'd sure like to Harold.   
When I was at Frank's place I had a good look at the starter on his 128.It had a small flywheel and ring gear mounted on it but I'm not sure if I can come up with a fast fix.
When the engine is set up properly,it starts 1st or 2nd pull in the morning if it's not too cold out.

[karl]

Been starting mine with "Armstrong " starter for a couple months since I have been going through Starter Rebuild Hades trying to get mine fixed- shoulda just called MD for one in the beginning.
Pretty surprised at how easily it does start- 'cept for Arthur Itis mornings :

I think a clever person could adapt a pulley to the rope start and spin the engine over with a belt  drive and 12v motor.

Had to rebuild the carb a few months ago- bought the kit and did it myself- totally amazed at how easy it was. Napa #is 2-5144 if your interested

[Frank_Pender]

Get a 128, Paul with an electric start. ;D

[Paul_H]

Then I'd have nothing to complain about Frank  :

Thanks for the NAPA # Karl.I'll see how fast they can get it to us here tomorrow.I just pulled the mag off and had a look under a good light.There is some rust on the magnets and the points only open to about 7 thou instead of the 15 that the manual calls for.

Would that make much of a difference?

[oakiemac]

Paul,

Here is what I suggest.
1) Pull a spark plug off and leave wire connected then ground it out on chasis then have someone crank engine. Look for a spark. If you have one then ignition system is good. If not then check points, condensor, plug wires, spark plugs, coil. I think there is a good write up in the manual on how to check these things.

2) pull fuel line off back of fuel pump then crank engine. If fuel squirts out then pump, filter, fuel lines to pump are good and most likely problem is carbruetor.

Just a couple of days ago my engine wouldn't start. First time I have ever had this problem it usually fires right up. Well after doing the above I found that I was not getting any fuel out of the fuel pump. I took it off and it pumped fine when I mechanically moved the flapper on bottom of pump. I by passed the fuel filter and put pump back on engine but still no go. After some choice words and a few wrenchs thrown, I found that the fuel line coming from the tank had a crack in it and was letting air into the system. I went down the road to a small engine repair shop and bought some fuel line. Problem solved and I sawed with a vengence the rest of the day.
Hope this helps.
BTW: Karl-the starter that MD uses is off of a '79 datsun truck! Good luck finding one of those. I had to replace mine last year.

[Paul_H]

Does the 128 with with the starter and charging system,have a coil and distributor or does it have a mag?

Oakie,
There is good pressure from the fuel pump and if I take the carb off and look down the manifold I see a fair amount of gas sitting there.
I'm starting to suspect the mag because it didn't have the gasket under the cap and there was a bit of moisture and rust,plus the points were set with too small a gap.

What I do know for sure is I don't know for sure 

[gary]

try new points . I have found that changing them will get an engine to start most of the time.

[DanG]

Paul, my 128 has the coil/distributor type ignition.  I don't know if all 128s are that way.  If mine didn't have electric start, I'd never have bought it. :D :D

Set those points to the right gap, and check the spark again.  Just having spark isn't enough...it's gotta be a blue/white spark, or at least a blue one.  If it is yellow, it ain't gonna do it.  The little fiberboard lifter on the points that rides the cam has probably just worn down, lessening your gap.  New points might be in order.

I had a problem that was the same, only different. : :D  Mine was obviously a fuel malfunction, but I had trouble finding it.  I rebuilt the carb, changed filters, checked for air leaks, etc.  Had good fuel pressure, but not enough delivery to support the engine in a hard cut.  Turned out to be the one thing I hadn't checked, and shoulda been the first...the pick-up tube that goes into my tank was clogged with sawdust.  Can you imagine?   Sawdust in a sawmill tank? ???  Whooda thunk it. :D :D :D

[Paul_H]

DanG,

I must have addled my brain while pulling on that rope today because I couldn't figure out why that gap on the points would be half what they should have been but it makes sense what you said about the fibreboard wearing down.
I tried to source a new set of points and condenser from NAPA today but the numbers off of the Wico/Prestolite didn't help.I ended up ordering a set from Mobile MFG.As I type this now I'm just wondering why I didn't splurge and order two sets  ???

My gas tank has it's share of rust and sawdust too  ;D

[karl]

Oakie
Thanks for the tip on the starter- that explains why the ole' boy that tried to rebuild it kept saying" ain't VW, looks like an old Nissan".....

Paul
Most likely when you get MD points/cond it will be a Napa product- save the # for next time.

[crtreedude]

If it is a VW, wouldn't the parts be Bosch? They were 25 years ago when I used to sell parts for them.

If you know the year of the engine - just go to a foriegn car parts place (do they still exist?) and ask for Bosch parts. Be aware all my information is SERIOUSLY out of date.  Napa is probably fine too.

With all the things you are mentioning, I would go through the whole thing, looking at wires, plugs (NGKs were always my favorites) points, condensor, cap, rotor. It probably isn't the wires because if it was, once you started, the problem would go away until you let it sit for a while.

One thing I do with our stuff is once a year bring it to a shop and say - find everything, fix everything. And then I tell them I worked in the automotive industry for 5 years and probably already know what is wrong.

Lost production is more expensive than keeping it running good.

[Steve]

They also offer the $75 electronic ignition option. Seemed to work fine for me.
Takes about 5 minutes to install and then you never have to worry about gap and I think they aren't as susceptible to moisture either.

[D._Frederick]

While you are trouble shooting the VW beatle engine, check the compression, you may have a cylinder down.

[Paul_H]

Got the points and condenser today from Mobile Mfg @ $35.00 US + almost that again for UPS  Oh well,now I've got the Wico part # for next time.The Wico mag is used on this engine because there is no battery or charging system on the mill.

Got the P&C installed and set but the old girl still doesn't want to start easily.I got it running and it sounded good but after it was allowed to idle down,it stalled when I gave it throttle again and was really finicky to get running again.
I suspect the carb.It is a Carter model W-O and the leather boot on the plunger is pretty well petrified and it seems like the carb is flooding the engine.These carbs were a stock item on CJ3's and Studebakers from what I could find on the internet.Matter of fact,NAPA her couldn't help find one until I phoned back with the CJ3 info.
They found a carb kit and it should be here in the morning.

[Minnesota_boy]

Check for a place that will take the carb apart and dunk it in their carb cleaner.  You probably have some small passages partially plugged from the junk you get with water in the gas.

[DanG]

You can get a carb cleaner set-up from the parts house here.  It consists of a 1 gallon can full of solvent, with a little basket to put your parts in.  Last one I bought was about twelve bucks.

[ScottAR]

mmm.... chem dip...  Berrymen's  works good and smells nice too....   :

They make a 5 gallon too but it's about $40. 

[Paul_H]

Well the parts came today for the carb and I changed everything out that I could.The plunger was totally gone and I found some more crud deposits between the ball check valves,so after a really good cleaning it was reassembled.The kit came with a good set of instructions and specs too but I had already found a great link for the W-O carb

Carter Rebuild

Put the carb back on the engine and a couple pulls later it roared to life.When I idled it down and then hit the throttle it died again but I adjusted the idle jet and gave it choke and it fired up again after a few pulls.If I stall the engine with the choke,it will fire up after a couple pulls,if I shut it down with the kill switch,it won't start unless it is choked.

Thank you all for your help and input.I'm hoping my bloody fingers can heal over now. 

[Paul_H]

The issue with the engine was twofold because the engine would fire up easy when it was cold but could be a real Bearcat after milling.I remembered what D_Fredrick had said about compression but Ole assured me that it would be fine,and he had set the valves a year ago but when I checked them a couple of days ago they were out of whack.Most were at about half the clearence they should have been.

Reset them all to .008 and have noticed a big difference in re-starting it after it has sawed a log and is shut down.

Hope this helps somebody down the line. 

[karl]

Thanks for that bit of info- "Emdee " starts hard (er) hot also, can't hurt to check.....

[DanG]

Hmmm! : ???  Mine starts hard when hot, too.  I'll recheck the valves next time I have the engine off for cleaning.