Where to start the Timber Frame?

[clif]

Well, lets see if I can make this clear as mud ;D  The picture first:

Should I conventional frame up through floor joists and plywood and then start with a TF sill(Option 1)  Or; Conventional frame just the walls and start my TF sill on top of the walls (Option2)  Or; Start myTF sills on top of the concrete walls (Option3)?  I realize I will need solid blocking under my posts on #1 or#2.  Oh! I will only be going up one more level and the foundation is 26 X 32.  My concern is about any knee action coming off the conventional framing. The basement walls are 5' and down to 3' (not including the door opening)  and will finish at 8'.   Thanks for your thoughts and ideas 

[scsmith42]

There are probably many different ways to do this, and Jim Rogers will probably know the best!  Some of it also depends on what tools / equipment you have at your disposal.

If it were me I'd aproach it from the point of view that I wanted my sills to be exactly right, and all my work was aimed at positioning and supporting them.

So I'd put the sill plates in first, conventional framing if/where needed to support the sills requiring support, and then complete the conventional framing and plywood the floor.

On the other hand, if you did the sill plates last you'd have a nice solid plywood deck to work off of when positioning them.

[Jim_Rogers]

There are many choices to make and these should be made before construction starts.

If you want to stick frame up to a deck that's ok, it has been done many times.
Once the deck is done you can just stand the posts on the decking or the joists that hold up this deck.
A timber sill at this level isn't always needed, or could be eliminated.
As long as the posts are secured to the deck/joists/mud sill/foundation.

With timber framing a structure there are points where the load will be transferred down to the foundation.
These "point loads" have to be planned for and proper support had to be there to hold them.
This includes through the foundation to the footings and to the ground.
Usually vertical rebar is added to the foundation wall at these "point loads."
Stick building up to a point load can be done as long as the "sticks" are capable of supporting the loads.
This means you may have to create a supporting column with 2 by materials.

Here is a shot of a stick build deck with a location for the post cut out of the plywood deck and the joist blocking to support this corner posts:




Here is a shot of a post attached to the box/rim joist:




The tenon for this post is 4" long.

Here is a shot of a built up post:



The post above was made up by ganging up some 2 by studs together to support the beam being lowered onto it.


Hope this helps.

Jim Rogers

[Joel Eisner]

As Scott (scsmith42) can verify from first hand experience, a conventional deck on a concrete/CMU foundation is a good way to go.  This is what I did and Scott was there to help with the raising.  We poured the footings with a thickened slab under where the point loads from the posts were going to be.  Then blocks were layed with pilasters on the thickened portions of the slab.  These areas were filled with concrete and rebar.  A 2x8 deck was built up on the sill plates.  8x8 in pockets were framed in for the posts and then covered with 3/4" T&G OSB.  The bents etc were assembled on the deck and just before the raising the pockets were cut out and the bottoms were all checked with a transit level.  It all worked well .... especially with Scott's help!!   8)

Joel

[Don P]

This is a shot of a post going into a pocket like Joel describes. I built 2-2x8 walls downstairs over areas of the slab we had thickened. In the points under the posts we built up posts of 2x8's within the wall directly under interior posts above. Like Jim shows, just down in the basement interior walls, 7-2x8's per column in this case.



This shot is of the concrete guys having just filled one of the trenches and has moved into the front bumpout. On the far right endwall of the precast foundation you can see where they reinforced a post location.

[clif]

 8) Great photos to go along with the great advice!  Thank you.  Originally this was to be a log home using 3-sided logs, but I really do not want to go back there.  Perhaps a bit more info on how the walls were built to this point would help in my decisions.  Footing 8X18/2-#5 rebar.  Foundation wall  Quad-lock system ( 2- 2" foam sheets 1'x4' with plastic spreader bar 8" between foam),1- #5 vertical rebar 2'oc, 1-#5 horizontal rebar 1'oc, and 2-#5 horizontal rebar at top, 6 sack 3/8 rock.  For those not familar it is a solid, contious 8" concrete core.  The slab is not poured so I can make pads for posts in that area, however should I dig under the footing at the point loads and let concrete make a pad?  The footing is now setting on good gravely/sand.
Jim- I understand about connecting the post down through to the foundation ( we have metal earthquake connector that can be installed after concrete is poured).

My question is: are the vertical forces down from the post (point load)only directly down or are there things you can do to spread the load out such as plaacing the TF sill ontop of the deck, glue and nail 3/4" plywood on the knee walls, or ???? Are things like that pretty negligible?  I am not real excited about digging holes under my footing,   seems  like that might be asking for trouble.  Thanks everyone for your imput I know it will help me make an informed decision.

[Jim_Rogers]

I wouldn't dig out under your current footing. You may have code issues then.
Just keep going as you are.
You can place a timber sill on your wall if you wish. The best answer could/should come from a structural engineer, but I'm not sure if you want to go that route.
Talk to the Quad-lock people and discuss it with them.
I've been to one of there workshops and I have seen all the installation stuff.
Good system.....

Good luck, with your project.

Jim