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My Timber Frame Home

Started by flyingparks, December 03, 2017, 08:40:54 PM

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flyingparks

Wondering if anyone knows what this is. I discovered it when I pulled my last timber to cut my last rafter. A mold of some kind? The wood is Doug Fir from the west. I also included a few photos of the frame. No more joints to cut.  :'(

  

  

 

tamarackman


logman

It looks almost the same color as the anti blue stain dip they use on the white pine I get during the warmer months.  I wonder if they dip douglas fir also, it is on the sap wood.  Will it sand off? 
LT40HD, 12' ext, 5105 JD tractor, Genie GTH5519 telehandler
M&K Timber Works

flyingparks

Thanks. It's a weird thing. It's the same color as the heartwood. Obviously it's all spotty. It won't sand off. Seems to have permeated. Luckily I was able to use it on the outside of the frame so it won't be seen. But i am just curious. I haven't seen it before.

MbfVA

 My bet is some kind of red mold / fungus. I would take a sample to be analyzed. Could be trouble.  You could try Clorox treatment on some of it.
www.ordinary.com (really)

Don P

Quote from: flyingparks on December 05, 2017, 09:54:49 AM
Thanks. It's a weird thing. It's the same color as the heartwood. Obviously it's all spotty. It won't sand off. Seems to have permeated. Luckily I was able to use it on the outside of the frame so it won't be seen. But i am just curious. I haven't seen it before.

My bet would be extractives from the heartwood, something trapped that tea there for awhile.

MbfVA

if a dash of Clorox didn't faze it, I think that would prove Don's point  depending on the color fastness of the heartwood?   The splotchiness makes me think of mold.   I looked at the photo again, and the reproduction is kind of poor so I'm not really sure what I'm seeing.  I have definitely seen mold or fungus that color.
www.ordinary.com (really)

Don P

From pg 38 here, there is a bad pic;
https://fpinnovations.ca/media/publications/Documents/wood-discoloration.pdf
QuoteA distinct blotchy red/pink stain in hemlock and Douglas-fir is caused by Cephaloascus fragrans or C. Ibidus. Sometimes it is also found on green lumber.

The section on extractives held promise as well  :D. What you have there is a stain.
Pg 31 has an interesting section on "sour felling" trees to help dry them a little, reduce bluestain and ambrosia beetles.

Peter Drouin

A new JLG Lull, nice. The frame is nice too. :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

flyingparks

Thanks for the replies guys. After doing some research and contacting the supplier. It appears the man Don P has done it once again. Pretty cool. I love learning new things!

MbfVA

I am saving your reference links, Don.  Thanks.  Pretty soon I'll have a wood library, perhaps somewhat sad and ironic in that the shelves will be digital rather than wood.

The usual Latin style scientific names are revealing.  One seems to be penicillin related; another suggests cephalosporin, which if memory serves is a treatment for anthrax (could not immediately verify that in Wikipedia, but I didn't dig too deep).  It's amazing how many different fungi/molds have been found useful as  components of life-saving drugs.

Not as much fun when they get on our lumber.

Good thing that red stain was only on one side that could be turned away.   I didn't see any suggestion that it could be gotten rid of easily except by planing, not easy or good for big timbers or cosmetics, in my book.  At least it was noted as not structurally harmful.

In our restaurant we use a lot of what is called quaternary sanitizer, based on ammonium chloride,  which is not hugely chemically different from table salt, sodium chloride.   I tried using it on large hay bales (old baler, no bale wrap etc),  to avoid the need for the expensive agricultural chemicals.  Mixed results, and I did not continue trying since we gave up on our own haying several years ago.  Perhaps the right concentration might be helpful with wood?  In typical concentrations, quat sanitizer won't kill much (most antibiotics don't kill, they merely prevent growth so the host body's white cell army can do its thing), but it will clean up & prevent the growth of some bugs.  Very good on odors, too, and safer than bleach.  Not toxic in at all in usual concentrations.  Sam's Club sells a version made by Economic Laboratories (they used to own KitchenAid, part of Hobart) for about $5 a gallon, which makes well over 100 gallons of solution for our use.

The authors didn't mention bleach or any ordinary chemical preventative  other than soapy water  (I did see mention of  some agents that are illegal in Canada and the USA, but not in New Zealand, wow).  Leaves me wondering why.

Editing siri mistakes on a phone is killer.  I hope I caught everything stupid, and that nothing changed just as I hit send.   Too bad the new tax law doesn't mandate better voice recognition--it hits a bunch of other stuff not directly related to taxes.
www.ordinary.com (really)

Don P

Yes that is the same quat used in food service. It is the Q in the newer preservative treatment ACQ.

flyingparks

Quote from: Peter Drouin on December 05, 2017, 06:58:32 PM
A new JLG Lull, nice. The frame is nice too. :D

Its a Gehl.  ;)

Some more photos... First time using SIPS. Really enjoyed using them. They really go well with the frame. The box is taking shape! Neighbors are a little bummed they can't see the frame now.


  

  

  

 

DPatton

That Gehl has amazing traction being able to work upside down and all! ;D ;D ;D
TimberKing 1600, 30' gooseneck trailer, Chevy HD2500, Echo Chainsaw, 60" Logrite.

Work isn't so bad when you enjoy what your doing.
D & S Sawmill Services

flyingparks

Quote from: DPatton on December 14, 2017, 08:18:48 PM
That Gehl has amazing traction being able to work upside down and all! ;D ;D ;D

Haha. Are the pictures upside down? They are all facing the right way on my computer. And I'm not standing on my head.

flyingparks

 Roof SIPs going up.


  

 

samandothers

Wow, how thick are your roof SIPS?

flyingparks

Quote from: samandothers on December 18, 2017, 10:12:49 AM
Wow, how thick are your roof SIPS?

Roof SIPs have 11 1/4" of foam. Half inch osb on each side

Clover

What is the R value of your roof SIPS? I like your build!
The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools

FalconFan

Awesome stuff! Please keep us updated! I imagine your home will be very warm!

flyingparks

Quote from: Clover on January 31, 2018, 01:51:11 PM
What is the R value of your roof SIPS? I like your build!

R24 in the walls. R49 in the roof

Jim1611

I'm really looking forward to seeing your progress!!
"Let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath."

flyingparks

Here's a bit of an update: SIPs on, windows in, doors in. Plumbing, electrical ready for rough inspection. I decked the second story in 1 1/2" Doug Fir T&G. I am very happy with the way it looks as a ceiling for the downstairs. I'm pouring 1.5" of lightweight concrete on the first and second floor. After its sealed this will be my finished floor. 

  

  

  

 

Brad_bb

How dry was your DF T&G?  I had an issue with some I got from out west, pre finished it, it had been out in my shed in ambient conditions for awhile.  Installed it and over the winter it shrank and I have some gaps to deal with.  I should have let it acclimate in heated conditions for a couple months first.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

flyingparks

Quote from: Brad_bb on February 04, 2018, 09:32:24 AM
How dry was your DF T&G?  I had an issue with some I got from out west, pre finished it, it had been out in my shed in ambient conditions for awhile.  Installed it and over the winter it shrank and I have some gaps to deal with.  I should have let it acclimate in heated conditions for a couple months first.

It averaged 8%, but I was only checking end grain. This particular batch had been sitting in the local lumberyard for a few months so it acclimated enough I hope. Colorado is extremely dry, and my experience is that it really doesn't take too long for lumber to acclimate, especially 6 quarter lumber. But I guess we'll see!

Don P

I have run into that here Brad. We'll get KD15% delivered for those kind of materials but the house can bottom out at ~8%emc in winter. If at all possible I like to go through at least some of the heating season on sticks before applying.

flyingparks

Need to build some stairs. Any thoughts / opinions on this? I created this in sketchup. It complies with codes. Treads are 2". Risers are 1/2". Two stringers. 3 feet apart. I guess my main question is if 2" treads are enough to span 36" Material is Doug fir.

And since we like photos, here are a few of the radiant floor heating. 

fishfighter

Looks real nice. Sure glade we don't need that here in the south. Hit a high of 89F today.

flyingparks

Quote from: fishfighter on February 22, 2018, 09:52:40 PM
Looks real nice. Sure glade we don't need that here in the south. Hit a high of 89F today.
Thanks. 12 degrees today and sunny.

jason.weir

Quote from: flyingparks on February 22, 2018, 09:24:28 PM
 I guess my main question is if 2" treads are enough to span 36" Material is Doug fir.
I'd be surprised if code doesn't require a middle stringer, even if it doesn't I'd certainly add it - maybe it's overkill but it's cheap easy overkill.

flyingparks

Floor heat in. Rough inspections done. I poured lightweight concrete upstairs and downstairs. This creates a thermal mass which increases efficiency for in floor hydronic heat. It' s a fairly complex system by my standards, but I think will be worth it. It's a 1400 square foot home and there are 12 zones in the heating system. If you don't make enough zones, radiant floor heating can get ugly quick. Some DIY friends of mine have a bathroom that is too hot to walk in when the heat is turned up during cold days. Anyway, I really like the look and simplicity of raw materials and I love the way the concrete looks with the timbers.

flyingparks

A friend's place. Helped him with some raising.  Beautiful day and a beautiful frame. Grove crane sure helps. I think the crane could lift the entire frame.


flyingparks

Finally moving again. Sheet rock and paint. Also, put some more tung oil on while I had scaffolding up

flyingparks

After the house is done, I'll get a better camera.

NorcalMatt

Great job!  You will be enjoying all this work for decades to come

flyingparks

Here's a little update. I cut down a nice straight fir tree and milled it up for stair parts. It was amazing how fast everything dried.

  

 

I planed everything last week and cut to rough size. They turned out really beautiful. Now I can show my grandpa why I didn't just go to the lumber yard (he asked why  :D).  

 

I hooked up the boiler just in time for summer. It's been really cold in the house and the season changed the day I installed this boiler. It's an all in one unit. It supplies the hydronic floor heat and the domestic hot water. It even has connections for solar thermal which is further, a lot further down the line.

 

I had a random foot of snow and some little moose stopped by. The snow was completely gone the following day.

 

I put in the wood stove but won't get to fire it until fall. Or maybe I'll sneak one in

 

The stucco crew has done their first coat. The color will ultimately be a light gray.  

 

  

I had two windows break. It was determined there was a mistake at the factory and these windows were charged with argon gas...something you can't do at 8600 feet. Luckily the window company is taking care of everything.

 

A few electrical and plumbing odds and ends and I can think about moving in. The dog is ready for summer.


 

samandothers

Thanks for the update!  Really looks good.

TimFromNB


flyingparks

Been busy with timber frame barn but the house is done...as far as the county is concerned. I'll post some interior photos when I get around to it. A friend took a nice photo of the frame with a professional camera.



 

 

Brad_bb

You're probably already past this point, but 2" DF spanning 3 ft for stair.  No.  Will flex, be creaky, not enough support.  YOu need a stringer in the middle or you need heavy timber stringers on each side and 3-4" thick treads with at least 3/4 or 1"  risers.  1/2 is too thin for riser especially in softwood.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Ljohnsaw

FP,
How are your stairs doing (3' span of 2x)?

Brad,
I've designed my stairs the same way - 3' span of 2x11 (full dimension) with 1x8 risers - and the county was fine with it.  All pine.  My cabin is going to be a bit more rustic than FP's so a little stair creak would add to that ;)

I'm not even near putting them up so I could make changes.  The underside of the stairs are not visible from inside the house so I could add more later to stiffen them up - like a 2x4 cleat (on edge) across the length, glued and screwed.  But if FP says he wished for thicker, I could do it now.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

runmca

Happy Birthday flyingparks!

flyingparks

Quote from: ljohnsaw on August 01, 2018, 11:24:18 AM
FP,
How are your stairs doing (3' span of 2x)?

Brad,
I've designed my stairs the same way - 3' span of 2x11 (full dimension) with 1x8 risers - and the county was fine with it.  All pine.  My cabin is going to be a bit more rustic than FP's so a little stair creak would add to that ;)

I'm not even near putting them up so I could make changes.  The underside of the stairs are not visible from inside the house so I could add more later to stiffen them up - like a 2x4 cleat (on edge) across the length, glued and screwed.  But if FP says he wished for thicker, I could do it now.
My stairs have been fine. My structural engineer friend said they would be fine. Although he shared Brad's opinion that it wouldn't hurt to throw something in the middle. I would have thrown a middle stringer in, but I ran out of lumber. So long answer is that I don't have any regrets. I even picked up the dog and jumped around with him on the steps. I should also state that one stringer is glued and screwed to a SIP wall and I know that adds significant support. Risers I will do again... Brad said 1/2 would be to thin. I agree.
Quote from: runmca on August 01, 2018, 12:04:41 PM
Happy Birthday flyingparks!


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