iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Mils DIY Sawmill (Will it fly or fizzle...)

Started by milhead, July 24, 2018, 07:56:47 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

milhead

Through nearly unanimous opinion I'm going to change (cant't really say retire) from my wood bandwheels to some 19" pulleys.. I've been worried about the wood from the start and they really don't save me that much money combined with the concern about them coming apart with flair!

The flip side is that now I've got to raid the pocketbook and am no longer building from shop junk (well aside from the YanClone fuel pump).

My next turn will be to try the system woodland uses where the drive pulley is the drive wheel, I like the reduction in parts (expensive parts).    

I still really like the 'supported on both sides' style bandwheel support, it seems that it will allow much less steel to keep rigid.

Stay Tuned!



 
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

Ljohnsaw

Upgrading to steel wheels is a good idea.  However, those wood wheels are pretty cool.  I'd say use them to build a woodshop band saw.  Much lower speeds and with narrower saw blade (with much less tension), they should last for that.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

muggs

Quote from: Al_Smith on July 26, 2018, 05:22:42 AMo achieve
It is not a bone of contention with me.  Just think about it. When an internal combustion engine is rated. It is when it is new and at sea level. If you are not at sea level. You will lose about 3% of the power for every one thousand feet above sea level. Also when the rings and valves start to wear, you don't have the same power as when the engine was new. An electric motor does not have all those parts to wear. It only has two bearings. And elevation, who cares. When an electric motor starts to slow, it starts pulling more amps.          
I did an experiment with a 3 hp electric motor.  Wired on 240 V. It produced a full 3 hp. (I have a dyno) Wire on  120v it produced 2.3 hp. The only difference being voltage drop. So if you go electric, make sure your wire size is ample.  You guys that are stationary should go electric, the savings are there.     Muggs

Stuart Caruk

For hooking to your tapered crankshaft, I wouldn't modify the crank. I'd grab a slightly undersized taperlock style hub, and machine the insert to match the taper on the shaft, clamp it up, and go from there.

Good luck on your project. You're not too far away from me. There are several small mills in our area.
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Al_Smith

I have a bandmill that is still a work in progress .I've toyed with the idea of using a 10 HP three phase motor running off a rotary phase converter . The converter will be a DIY thing because I've built many .Either that or a 31HP Wisconsin 4 banger .I have a few more options because I have many electric motors and gas engines .Tires not band wheels .
This mill will be movable  but set up as a stationary unit because I have no desire to pull it all over to cut up somebodies lawn trees just because I'm a nice guy . Come next Tuesday after over 50 years of doing electrical work I'm going to retire .Enough is enough .

bandmiller2

Millhead, can you cut a piece off the generator armature that fits the tapered shaft and then mount with a taperlock.??The tapered armature shafts are usually held on the tapered engine crank with a through bolt. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

YellowHammer

Quote from: milhead on July 26, 2018, 10:29:29 AM
Through nearly unanimous opinion I'm going to change (cant't really say retire) from my wood bandwheels to some 19" pulleys.. I've been worried about the wood from the start and they really don't save me that much money combined with the concern about them coming apart with flair!

The flip side is that now I've got to raid the pocketbook and am no longer building from shop junk (well aside from the YanClone fuel pump).
Good for you, good decision. 8)
Along with others on the Forum, I've seen and had some pretty wicked things happen on a bandmill, and I think that any money you have to spend out of pocket now on reliable wheels you would have had to spend later on medical deductibles.  
It's all fun until someone gets hurt.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

milhead

Well we tried with great vigor to get clearance under the mill to cut a keyway in the 1" shaft but there was no solution that provided the required clearance.  In the back of our minds (we were still in denial) there was really not enough shaft left to properly support the clutch and pulley anyway...

Enter Plan-B,   

At the heart of the armature that was removed from the non-working generator is a shaft that properly mates with the engine output shaft 
(credit to the the forum members that predicted this path,  the "Told You So" buffet-line is growing, better get in).

Here is the detailed (ala Wylie-Coyote) drawing of Plan-B..  Depending on the size and condition of the shaft within the armature It will at least require support at the far end..  Shown is the extreme mode where I decouple the shafts and support the clutch with two pillow bearings...  



 

Dead-armature-walking....  I'm sure there is a 1"-ish shaft waiting to escape all that winding, commutator, electric stuff!  

This weekend I'll be cutoff-tooling all the unwanted fodder with extreme prejudice...



 
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

milhead

Hi Folks,

I'm using a Timberwolf 1-3/8" x 13/16" Cobalt Blade. PN 114m4286SS 0' 176"

The PSI manufacturer specifications are referring to the blade cross-sectional area but I want to check my math..

(my quick math says about 500lbs on the blade X2 for two blades so 1000 lbs force is mid-range, I'll design for a ton)

Question:
   What ballpark range of pounds-force should I design for to separate my band-wheels to tension a blade?

Mil


Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

Den-Den

My math says 630 lbs x 2 = 1260 lbs total is the minimum tension that might work and

1.375 x .042 x 15000 = 866    (x 2) = 1732 lbs (I would consider this a mid range number and design for capability to handle at least 2000 lbs with minimum deflection of the frame)
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

milhead

Took a few grinding wheels but I got the shaft out of the armature.  I had to cut out one side before I could break the bond.

Comes out to 1.1", Hopefully I can cut it down to 1" and have enough room left to cut my key..  

There seems to be a fair amount of metal inside so I think it will work.



 


 
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

No_Dude

If that mics out to 1.1 in, Chuck it up in a drill press and ghetto lathe your way down to 1 via sand paper. Go slow so you approach your final target, would hate to blow thru.

milhead

Well I'm certainly no machinist but fortunately can get access to a lathe at work...

Got the armature shaft down to one inch and will cut the keyway later this week.

Pretty fun!



 

More evidence I'm no machinist...

20180807 192600 - YouTube
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

milhead

I'll have to support the end of the shaft with another bearing but finally have a way to connect the clutch to the ex-armature shaft.


 

 
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

milhead

Well I have the basics of the bandsaw cut out.





I need to add the metal that will keep it all operating in line.   I also need to add the 3/4 rods for the die-springs to ride on.

Right now the frame is upside down, After flipping it over the bottle-pump should work. (should)..

Band-wheels came, Nothing keeping me from assembling the saw's head except my motivation.


 

 

 
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

milhead

Spent some time in the shop today!

Completed the bottom side of what I am now calling the carriage.. The end of the bandsaw that will move to get the blade tensioned.

I'll be picking up 8 9/16x2 bolts to mount the pillow blocks tomorrow.






 

 


 
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

Crusarius

I have never had any luck with bottle jacks in that orientation. I hope it works for you.

pineywoods

If the bottle jack proves to be unsatasfactory, replace it with the cylinder off a cheap floor jack. Designed to be used in a horizontal position. Why hydraulic AND springs ? Keep in mind that a fully tensioned blade gonna put TONS of force on the pillow blocks..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

milhead

Quote from: pineywoods on August 13, 2018, 10:35:10 AM
If the bottle jack proves to be unsatasfactory, replace it with the cylinder off a cheap floor jack. Designed to be used in a horizontal position. Why hydraulic AND springs ? Keep in mind that a fully tensioned blade gonna put TONS of force on the pillow blocks..
The 4 springs are each 500lb/inch die springs and should be mid-range with the ton of force that I think I'm designing around..   I was hoping to get a little give and create an empirical tension gauge that reads lose/good/tight like a fire-extinguisher gauge.  
I'm planning on using a flutter method to set my tension then as I understand it (Remember, absolutely no sawmill experience here) blade expansion will occur with heat and I was hoping the springs would give me a bit more dynamic system than a cylinder alone.
I played with using a trailer jack as well but I'd then have to put my hands in where I'm planning a very solid blade guard to live (Yikes!)
The photo is of the bottom of the head unit so the bottle-jack-pump will be below the reservoir, guaranteed won't work if it's on top.
In the end, It's shop junk so if I have to upgrade it's not like this version cost me anything.  I like your idea of the floor jack, I have an old one of those as well.
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

Magicman

Quote from: milhead on August 13, 2018, 03:41:10 PMblade expansion will occur with heat
When a blade heats up and expands, it needs attention to determine why it heated up.  Just tightening more could mask the problem and you end up with poor cutting quality or a broken blade.

This is not to indicate that I do not like the spring idea because I do, but for you to be aware of what's happening to make the blade get hot.  When I loose tension I know that the blade is heating up and a hot blade usually indicates a dull blade and needs replacing.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Southside

If your bottle jacks don't work there are horizontal bottle jacks on the market. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

milhead

Most everything is now connected to the frame..  I received my 19" non-wood band-wheels but no gantry..  

I think I'm going to build some temporary legs for this thing.

Then I can build mounts for the engine, clearance for the bandwheels and get the blade running. 

After all that works I'll design the gantry and bed mount it to.. It will take a steel investment that I don't want to make for a while (couple weeks anyway).

Engine will mount on the near side on an adjustable slide.  

I will need to mount a plate with bolts to that left brace so I can make a slot to pass a belt through..  It's aggressively tacked on now.



 



 

 
Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

Crusarius

I used an engine stand I had had laying around and just clamped the sawframe to it. Worked pretty good, held it at a nice height and gave me the ability to flip it over.

milhead

It's taken me more work to get here than I thought but been a lot of head-scratching fun!

Today's  job is the engine mount and figuring how long the drive belt needs to be.



 


Time spent on hobbies is not deducted from your life span
                                    -- I'm sure someone said it.

Magicman

Unless I'm missing something, it looks like you gotta take a bunch of stuff loose to put the belts on your bandwheels??
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Thank You Sponsors!