Diesel Engine Shutting Down

mills · July 12, 2018, 10:01:08 PM

I have a small Case W11 wheel loader. Little feller is handy as heck, and I've very little trouble out of it...until now. My son was using it to build rock retaining walls around his house when the loader started shutting down on him. He thought it had ran out fuel, but it took less than five gallons when he went to fill it up. Needless to say, we started with filters, and then blew out all fuel lines. No luck. The loader has an electric fuel pump that appears to be pumping very well. We checked the diesel flow through the filters, and there was good flow coming out of the injector pump input line. Let the loader set for ten minutes, and it will start great, and run at for a minute before it shuts itself down. Let it set for a couple minutes, and it will shut down in a matter of seconds. The injector pump is a Stanadyne with an electric shut off switch. I'm stumped. Any ideas???

Puffergas · July 12, 2018, 10:13:25 PM

Maybe you are using an inline circuit breaker instead of a fuse.

Puffergas · July 12, 2018, 10:14:33 PM

Maybe you have an inline circuit breaker instead of a fuse.

Don P · July 12, 2018, 10:41:00 PM

Did you loosen the cap and blow back into the tank? I've been clogged there before. I had the cap off, and luckily a change of clothes in the truck :D

mike_belben · July 12, 2018, 11:03:21 PM

Hows the power when it is running?

Fuel tank vent not clogged? Injector drainback lines are intact and not plugged? Can you put a test light into the cab to watch the shutoff solenoids continuity?

East ky logging · July 13, 2018, 06:16:53 AM

Sounds like the check valve on top of the pump that' the return line goes into. There's a little B.B. in there and if it gets a little stopped up it'll do exactly what you're describing.

Oliver05262 · July 13, 2018, 08:13:44 PM

I'll second what EastKY said. Check that the return line from the top of the injection pump is clear all the way back to the tank by blowing through it, and if it is, remove the fitting on top of the Stanadyne pump and look for debris plugging it. If you find that, it's pieces of the weight ring retainer, and a common failure on those pumps. You can buy some time by maybe blowing it out backwards, or punch out the glass check ball if that fails.
Back pressure on that return line shuts the pump down. You will have to repair the injection pump eventually, but it will run a long time doing this. If your tank is much lower than the engine, you might have some issues with fuel drainback, but I would try this method first.

mills · July 14, 2018, 05:28:54 AM

Appreciate the replies.

My son blew back into the tank after he had topped it off. :D Won't be any grass growing in that spot for a few years.
Motor runs normal until it shuts down. Wide open or idle without any missing or cutting out.
We'll look into the return check. Our next step was going to be running it with the return line unhooked. I was hoping for something simple, but everything keeps pointing back to the injection pump.
I'll let you know how we come out.

Thank yall.

mike_belben · July 14, 2018, 12:43:49 PM

Yesterday i was troubleshooting my case 450 crawler loader with a rotary pump.. I dont know which. Cleared the clogged line and flushed out the tank, new filters full and bled, injectors bled over and over but wouldnt run off ether. Finally cracked the inlet hardpipe that feeds into the pump and got a ton of air then she ran like a top.

You may have air locked somewhere between where you do have fuel and where you dont. Keep cracking stuff open before you send the pump out.

mills · July 14, 2018, 09:37:58 PM

Mike, would air eventually work it's way out as the engine runs?

mike_belben · July 15, 2018, 07:38:14 AM

Engines with return lines to tank purge air much better than those without, but even still.. Air does what it wants.

If you are running good between shutting down it tells me the lines from pump to injector are bled and the injectors are working. If air was in them it wouldnt be able to build enough pressure to unseat the injector pintle and would run all burbly as the lazy injection line failed to fire off that cylinder. A crisp normal engine note tells us all lines are bled pretty well.

If it revs up and responds to throttle input that also tells me the pump is probably absolved of guilt and leaves us looking at fuel supply to the injection pump as likely culprit.

My money is on either a section of rubber hose that has delaminated internally, or your tank is filled with sediment that has finally clogged the last bits of every elbow and fitting coming out of the tank. When you blow air back to tank from the filter head the problem improves temporarily as you loosen the trash but replugs soon after. I have been through this many times. No one likes a diesel bath but a mans got to do what a mans got do.

Drain the tank and pull the NPT fittings apart. I bet youll find your issue.

mills · July 15, 2018, 09:01:15 PM

My son is going to see about the return line check valve. If that don't get it we'll start replacing fuel lines, and then move on to the fuel tank. Won't be the first tank I had to clean. I'm just really hoping it's not the next one. :(

Thank yall!

Stuart Caruk · July 18, 2018, 11:53:01 PM

I had the same problem on a 500C once. IT would run great, then quit for no good reason. After many frustrating tries, I pulled the main tank and fittings. Turned out there were several pieces of red plastic... trimmings from a 5 gallon fuel can I had recently bought. They got in the tank, and would clear out when I blew the line backwards, but then get caught up in the 90 degree bends of the fittings and block the fuel flow. It sound like you have issues on the low pressure side of the fuel system.

Good Luck.

GRANITEstateMP · July 20, 2018, 10:59:30 AM

Any luck getting the fuel issue figured out Mills?

snowstorm · July 20, 2018, 06:15:39 PM

if its a facet pump it may have a screen in it

woodmaker · July 20, 2018, 09:25:04 PM

I had a J.D. 450 that would do this. When you blew back through the line,it would run again;sometimes for minutes,sometime for days. Turns out someone had put a sandwich bag in the fuel tank before i bought the machine

mills · July 20, 2018, 09:32:15 PM

We took the injection pump fuel inlet screen off, didn't see anything, but blew it out anyway. We took the return line fitting off but found no debris. Changed out all fuel lines, then unhooked the fuel line going into the filter, put the end in a clean fuel can, and turn on the fuel pump. The pump ran a steady stream of fuel for several minutes putting about 3.5 to 4 gallons in the can. Fuel looked clean. The tank and the fuel pump aren't the problem. Getting tired of messing with this thing, so had my son took the return line fitting off and open up the check valve. It ran long enough that he put it back to work. Thought we had it, but he called a little bit ago and said it died on him again. :( In the morning he's going to verify that the check port is still open.

mike_belben · July 21, 2018, 04:34:11 PM

Youre narrowing it down atleast. Maybe it really is pump internals this time.

Screens in fuel inlet banjo fittings/elbows haven gotten me by surprise a few times, most recently on my komatsu d31.

jason.weir · July 22, 2018, 11:34:01 AM

Quote from: mike_belben on July 21, 2018, 04:34:11 PM
Youre narrowing it down atleast. Maybe it really is pump internals this time.

Screens in fuel inlet banjo fittings/elbows haven gotten me by surprise a few times, most recently on my komatsu d31.

My Cat D3 gave me fits until I found that little plastic screen in the inlet banjo bolt. Every time I run it low on fuel I have to take it out and clean the rust & dirt out of it...

mills · July 22, 2018, 05:31:39 PM

My son opened the return check a little more and ran the loader off and on all day yesterday without it shutting down. 8)

Want to thank everyone for all their help. Never would have thought to open the return line inside the injection pump.

Now I'm wondering how much life is left in this pump before it needs to be replaced?

mike_belben · July 23, 2018, 11:29:54 PM

Only one way to find out

8)

mills · July 24, 2018, 04:39:30 AM

Quote from: mike_belben on July 23, 2018, 11:29:54 PM
Only one way to find out

8)

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Once my son gets done with it I won't have a big need for the loader for a little while. It's going to take a back seat until I can get some of the other irons out of the fire. I'm only hoping I get some indication from it before it decides to lay down.

East ky logging · July 24, 2018, 05:45:38 AM

If it's the check valve that keeps stopping up what I done is take it out and put a inline filter in the line. If you just take it out it will stop the line up where it attaches to the top of the injectiors. As far as how long that will last or if that's the proper way to do it I don't know but I did that to a backhoe about five years ago and it's still going but it doesn't get a whole lot of use.