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Bracken Fern Invasion

Started by joecurtin, July 12, 2019, 04:26:57 PM

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joecurtin

I own 15 acres on a small river in upstate NY.  Bracken fern have taken over most of the area behind my house, down the slope to the water.  Other than being linked to cancer in both animals and humans they are the Marriott of tick hotels. I need them gone.

I've read a lot about bracken eradication and tried the cutting method, weedwacking in my case.  It's supposed to starve the root system but I'm now on year 4 and need to try another route. I'm not against chemicals but the only one known to be long-term effective, Asulam, is unavailable in the U.S.

Bracken thrives on dry acidic soil, especially fast draining slopes like mine. I am wondering if liming over a few years can make the soil more alkaline and less hospitable to these freak weeds.

Another route might be salt which would kill the ferns and everything near them. I did weedwack one 20ft square stand and apply a salt-water solution to it.  The ground was bare the following day.  

Burning actually strengthens bracken so that is out.

The land is basically now unusable so any opinions would help. 






Clark

What do you want to do with the land post-bracken? That will influence the method used.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

DelawhereJoe

If you salt the ground enough you will sterilize it, then you will have an erosion problem. There are herbicides that are sold in the us that will kill it
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joecurtin

Quote from: Clark on July 12, 2019, 04:34:45 PM
What do you want to do with the land post-bracken? That will influence the method used.

Clark
It's largely a cleanup situation so I want it as clear as possible.  The prior owner had it logged and left behind tons of slash.  So I hope to clear the bracken, clear the slash and a lot of other downed trees and then sell.  I'd definitely build a decent pathway to the water as a selling point.

joecurtin

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on July 12, 2019, 05:08:20 PM
If you salt the ground enough you will sterilize it, then you will have an erosion problem. There are herbicides that are sold in the us that will kill it
Erosion is a concern yes, as the bracken completely cover the steepest areas.  I'd like to spot treat but the entire hillside is literally one plant, it's a zillion shoots coming off a single root system that can run for miles.

The UK data indicates Asulam is the only effective agent for bracken but I am open to suggestions.

DelawhereJoe

Herbicides containing the active ingredient dicamba (Banvel®, Vision®, etc.) are also effective in the control of bracken fern. Dicamba is a systemic herbicide that will kill the entire plant, but it is also a selectiveherbicide so it can be used around grasses with little or no damage.

"According to the internet"
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joecurtin

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on July 12, 2019, 10:02:29 PM
Herbicides containing the active ingredient dicamba (Banvel®, Vision®, etc.) are also effective in the control of bracken fern. Dicamba is a systemic herbicide that will kill the entire plant, but it is also a selectiveherbicide so it can be used around grasses with little or no damage.

"According to the internet"
check out the section here called Experimental Procedures, dicamba was tested against glyphosate and asulam.
http://calag.ucanr.edu/archive/?type=pdf&article=ca.v032n06p7

Mad Professor

I was surprised to read about the toxic properties of bracken fern.

The fronds have been used as a food for centuries, and are sold in supermarkets.  Eat them like asparagus.

Is there something I'm missing?  Or is the toxicology of the fronds different than the mature plant?

joecurtin

The chemical it produces is Ptaquiloside. The young fiddleheads have the strongest concentration and are eaten like asparagus but I thought that was mostly in Japan. I didn't know humans ate the fronds but here it is:

"There is an apparent link between chronic consumption of bracken and an increased level of throat and gastric cancers in the populations of Korea, Japan and parts of China. Bracken is widely eaten in Korea, Japan and parts of China, almost every day in some areas. Bracken (gosari) is a classic part of bibimbap, one of the most famous Korean dishes there is."

PTQ is in all stages of the fronds, it was the cancer and internal hemorrhaging death of grazing livestock that raised the alarm to begin with.  It's found in their milk in high concentrations and also the ground water of infested areas. To top it off the spores are associated with both lung cancer and leukemia so hikers are advised to wear masks in infested areas of the UK. 

I've read there are ways of cooking it to reduce the PTQ level but the science pretty much rebuts that.

joecurtin

Quote from: Clark on July 12, 2019, 04:34:45 PM
What do you want to do with the land post-bracken? That will influence the method used.

Clark
The proper answer to this question was "I don't know".  I can only say it definitely won't be used for any type of farming.

nativewolf

I think the point here being it is summer time, you are in NY.  If you treat the fern you need to be ready to plant (ASAP) a seed cover crop or you will have a mess on your hands come spring,  a different mess but a mess.  That is why people are asking.  Seeding 4 acres is doable even with a hand seeder you carry on chest (if jumping around slash).  Just takes a day.  However, not treating it will be a mess and another different problem will creep up.
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joecurtin

Quote from: nativewolf on July 13, 2019, 10:15:50 AM
I think the point here being it is summer time, you are in NY.  If you treat the fern you need to be ready to plant (ASAP) a seed cover crop or you will have a mess on your hands come spring,  a different mess but a mess.  That is why people are asking.  Seeding 4 acres is doable even with a hand seeder you carry on chest (if jumping around slash).  Just takes a day.  However, not treating it will be a mess and another different problem will creep up.
Sounds ok, I've done big lawns before, what are your suggestions for treating the ferns?  

Mad Professor

A good summer cover crop is buckwheat, it germinates really quick and out competes weeds.  Till that under and plant another fall cover.  If you hunt might want to look at a mixture that deer like.

Mad Professor

Lots of people I know (myself ) eat "fiddleheads".  The native Americans did for thousands of years.

I'll have to look into this.........

Perhaps cooking does break down the Ptaquiloside.  I know boiling 15 minutes deactivates botulin toxin.

Mad Professor

This is going to take some research.  Lots of publications in the chemical literature.

I'm a PHD synthetic organic chemist.  Will provide some good reading for me.  I'll chime in again when I've read some journal articles.

There is some publications that Ptaquiloside gets into ground water where the ferns are found.  I'd be concerned if I had a shallow well in an infested area.

The Ptaquiloside, reacts with a DNA base (A) and causes cleavage of DNA strands.  That can explain it's carinogenic properties.  It also has been shown to effective against certain cancers.  That is it kills the cancers cells before killing normal ones.

joecurtin

Quote from: Mad Professor on July 13, 2019, 02:05:17 PM
This is going to take some research.  Lots of publications in the chemical literature.

I'm a PHD synthetic organic chemist.  Will provide some good reading for me.  I'll chime in again when I've read some journal articles.

There is some publications that Ptaquiloside gets into ground water where the ferns are found.  I'd be concerned if I had a shallow well in an infested area.

The Ptaquiloside, reacts with a DNA base (A) and causes cleavage of DNA strands.  That can explain it's carinogenic properties.  It also has been shown to effective against certain cancers.  That is it kills the cancers cells before killing normal ones.
I'm aware of the health implications only because I was researching ways to eradicate it.
There's a lot of info out there and most of it is scary.  I need to find a lab that can screen water samples for ptaquiloside, I can try Cornell Monday but they are rarely any help.

Ironically as I was about to reassure a neighbor, telling her there were no cancer clusters in our area, she interrupted me and stated our town has an unusually high rate of pancreatic cancer.    

and fyi Atlantic magazine article on eating bracken

Mad Professor

Quote from: joecurtin on July 13, 2019, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: Mad Professor on July 13, 2019, 02:05:17 PM
This is going to take some research.  Lots of publications in the chemical literature.

I'm a PHD synthetic organic chemist.  Will provide some good reading for me.  I'll chime in again when I've read some journal articles.

There is some publications that Ptaquiloside gets into ground water where the ferns are found.  I'd be concerned if I had a shallow well in an infested area.

The Ptaquiloside, reacts with a DNA base (A) and causes cleavage of DNA strands.  That can explain it's carinogenic properties.  It also has been shown to effective against certain cancers.  That is it kills the cancers cells before killing normal ones.
I'm aware of the health implications only because I was researching ways to eradicate it.
There's a lot of info out there and most of it is scary.  I need to find a lab that can screen water samples for ptaquiloside, I can try Cornell Monday but they are rarely any help.

Ironically as I was about to reassure a neighbor, telling her there were no cancer clusters in our area, she interrupted me and stated our town has an unusually high rate of pancreatic cancer.    

and fyi Atlantic magazine article on eating bracken
There is a good USDA paper.
It recommends first cutting the unfurled fronds and when they resprout hitting it with herbicide .
The roots/rhizomes expend a lot of energy in new growth, and the resprouts are weakened and more easily killed by the herbicide.

joecurtin

I've read it's best to apply herbicides toward end of summer just before plants start dying.  It's when maximum translocation of nutrients (and herbicide) to the rhizome is taking place.

I like the idea of changing the soil ph to a 6-7 range, liming over several years.  Not sure why that's not talked about in the UK research.

Mad Professor

Quote from: joecurtin on July 14, 2019, 01:11:23 PM
I've read it's best to apply herbicides toward end of summer just before plants start dying.  It's when maximum translocation of nutrients (and herbicide) to the rhizome is taking place.

I like the idea of changing the soil ph to a 6-7 range, liming over several years.  Not sure why that's not talked about in the UK research.
Not sure with ferns when translocation is at it's peak.  By end of summer they will be putting out new spores. Translocation is going to be ongoing as long as the fern is green.
I did a forest stewardship plan two years ago.  For invasives, the general procedure was mechanical first, then kill resprouts with herbicide.
That was what was in USDA paper I mentioned, for bracken fern.
Each time you cut, they expend energy to make new growth.  Try two cuts, one early, then summer, spray just before (2-3 weeks) a killing frost.
Let us know how this works out.  Have you decided/thought about cover crops/reseeding?

joecurtin

UK research says downward movement of nutrients is at it's peak in late summer when fronds are fully exposed but not in senescence. For angry farmers it's a difficult decision to allow the plant to grow to full height before treating.

I'm in my 3rd year of 3-4 cuts per season, it has done nothing as there are millions of buds underground. So much for weakening the rhizome.  I haven't sprayed new growth as you suggested. 

Yesterday I began a test of spot treating the fronds with my salt solution to avoid harming frogs, newts, worms etc. I had been weekwacking them first and expect that will prove to have been more effective due to exposure of the stem. I have one entirely bare hillside to prove it.

I haven't read up on ground cover yet.  I am a bit worried about growing anything before eradicating the fern.






Clark

Quote from: joecurtin on July 15, 2019, 10:42:49 AMYesterday I began a test of spot treating the fronds with my salt solution to avoid harming frogs, newts, worms etc. I had been weekwacking them first and expect that will prove to have been more effective due to exposure of the stem. I have one entirely bare hillside to prove it.
I think your intentions are good but considering how chemicals can be absorbed and transported through the skin of many amphibians your aim is a bit off.
Clark
SAF Certified Forester

Corley5

Bracken fiddleheads aren't eaten around here.  Fiddle heads of other ferns are.  I believe they're Ostrich Ferns ???  I don't eat them. 
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joecurtin

Quote from: Clark on July 15, 2019, 06:40:54 PM
Quote from: joecurtin on July 15, 2019, 10:42:49 AMYesterday I began a test of spot treating the fronds with my salt solution to avoid harming frogs, newts, worms etc. I had been weekwacking them first and expect that will prove to have been more effective due to exposure of the stem. I have one entirely bare hillside to prove it.
I think your intentions are good but considering how chemicals can be absorbed and transported through the skin of many amphibians your aim is a bit off.
Clark
Any herbicide will affect them.  I am at least looking where I am salting and attempting to remove any of these animals.  

joecurtin

Quote from: Mad Professor on July 13, 2019, 02:05:17 PM
This is going to take some research.  Lots of publications in the chemical literature.

I'm a PHD synthetic organic chemist.  Will provide some good reading for me.  I'll chime in again when I've read some journal articles.

There is some publications that Ptaquiloside gets into ground water where the ferns are found.  I'd be concerned if I had a shallow well in an infested area.

The Ptaquiloside, reacts with a DNA base (A) and causes cleavage of DNA strands.  That can explain it's carinogenic properties.  It also has been shown to effective against certain cancers.  That is it kills the cancers cells before killing normal ones.
wondering if you can help with a salt type question since you are a chemistry guy.  The regular iodized table salt is having a much stronger effect than the bulk "mixing salt" I've tried from the local feed supplier.  Everyone tells me salt is salt but the difference is dramatic.  Any theory on this?  The proportions of salt to water are the same, 26oz per 5 gallons water.

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