E and S plan

OHaraTree · January 30, 2014, 04:29:57 PM

Is it necessary on every job? In PA?

beenthere · January 30, 2014, 05:46:15 PM

:

Sorry, and do welcome you to the Forestry Forum

OHaraTree · January 30, 2014, 06:00:35 PM

Rolling eyes dont tell me much. Its not a trolling question. I have experience in the past running cable and grapple skidder for a company. I am a residential tree service owner. I ask about this for a legitimate reason. I don't know the answer and how that works. I know how to put wood on the ground, how to land it, etc. I don't know the business end of things.

Thank you for the help. Ill keep a folder on my dashboard one day with a piece of paper with two smiley faces with rolled eyes.

Dave Shepard · January 30, 2014, 06:04:57 PM

Welcome to the Forum, OHaraTree!

What is an E and S plan? I don't know what that is. I'm sure there are loggers from PA that will know what to do.

beenthere · January 30, 2014, 06:06:11 PM

Clue us in (of us who don't know) what you mean by "E and S plan". Thanks.

Lots of good help here, but may not be so good with single letters. ;)

Northern Timber Harvesting · January 30, 2014, 06:10:00 PM

erosion and sedimentation, I've only cut a few jobs in PA but i'm thinking yes you do. There must be someone on here from there that knows for sure.

beenthere · January 30, 2014, 06:21:38 PM

Forgot my FF manners, and didn't know we had a new member on board. Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Googled Erosion and Sedimentation for PA, and came up with several hits.
such as:

http://www.lccd.net/erosion.htm

coxy · January 30, 2014, 06:57:12 PM

Quote from: OHaraTree on January 30, 2014, 04:29:57 PM
Is it necessary on every job? In PA?

the way I read it but could be wrong any thing over 25a must have it for logging

welcome to the forestry form

PAFaller · January 30, 2014, 07:54:35 PM

Didnt you take SFI classes? Yes an E&S plan is required on every job. If total disturbed surface exceeds 25 acres you need to file a permit. Any major stream crossing, or crossing a flow that drains more than 100 acres requires proper wetland crossing permits from state DEP. Note that disturbance is things like dozed out landings and haul roads, not skid trails. But if you intend to build a mile of two lane road and a big landing you had better have your ducks in a row, DEP does not take kindly to guys not following applicable rules, and its only gotten tougher since the Marcellus development started. A small flat job with no wet spots simply requires a plan that states landowners name, contracters name, timber buyers name, and a map of sale area.

clww · January 30, 2014, 08:07:38 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, OHaraTree.

OHaraTree · January 30, 2014, 09:39:25 PM

Thank you for the welcomes guys. Like I stated, I am not a professional. I am "looking" ad exploring the idea of supplementing my income with logging. I have 4 months of downtime each year. The winter. Id like to bridge that gap. Im in a position to buy a used skidder outright and not carry a payment. I am considering taking the plunge and doing so and trying to drum up enough logging to fill my winters, or part of them. I understand the labor and working on the woods. But I am a virgin to the logistics of setting up jobs. If I do make the jump and go for it, I know I have a tough road ahead of me loaded with learning curves. BUT, Im read to roll the dice. The 4 months of slowness that owning a tree company brings, really hammers away at any profits that by busy season generates.

I know that investing into trying to get a small time logging outfit off the ground isn't going to make me rich or line my pockets with gobs of money. But, staring at the woodstove for 4 months each year doesn't do anything productive either. Please bear with me on my novice business questions. Im trying to sort through these things in my mind before I part with 30 some thousand bucks.

Thank you in advance. Im Chris by the way.

thecfarm · January 30, 2014, 09:45:32 PM

OHaraTree.welcome to the forum. I am really only know about mine land,no brooks or streams on my land. But there is paperwork that needs to be filled out for cutting wood. Intent to cut,than more paper work on eack load that leaves the lot. All of it is very simple,just keep good records. I wonder what you need for insurance?

treeslayer2003 · January 30, 2014, 10:06:03 PM

welcome to the forum.
I have to submit sediment and erosion papers for any job over one acre here as well as bmp, buffer plan if streams, letter of intent, and any tidal water x that paperwork by at least three.

donny hochstetler · January 30, 2014, 11:04:36 PM

this bug could end up biting you b4 its all said n done try to work with high grade, more money with less logs, there is an auction co 8)ming up in feb just close to me they have it every feb they always have some decent skidders if your looking i know there selling a nice 640 d 23 in. rubber 8)

OHaraTree · January 31, 2014, 09:00:34 AM

Donny, yes Id be interested to know about that. I do believe the bug will bite me. I LOVED working in the woods. Im tired of the everyday chase of generating 20-40 jobs a month to keep busy in the residential tree industry. It is what it is, and Im not making any big changes overnight. But having worked both industries, I LOVED working in the woods far more then residential.

Bert · January 31, 2014, 09:46:56 AM

The conservation district handles the E&S planning here. I'd guess its the same for all PA. Fill out the paperwork, mail your $100, and keep your paperwork with you on the job. Its pretty straight forward. I actually had a guy from the conservation district walk the job and advise where to put in some silt fencing or straw bales. Any complaints or issues (mostly jealous neighbors who think your making a million dollars an acre) are handled by the conservation district first. They have no actual enforcement rights but they will get the DCNR on you for big violations if not resolved. I find they are helpful and generally not out to rob you. Once your paperwork is in, you don't here from them unless your making a mess.

PAFaller · January 31, 2014, 08:35:54 PM

I've never had to pay for a plan, you can write them out yourself. When you go through the SFI training courses you'll get a blank copy of the plan you can then make copies of. It will have the first few pages where you fill out your information and the landowners information, then about 12 pages of different approved crossings. Small jobs and skid roads are never a big deal, the problems arise and more care must be taken when under taking a project that requires building haul roads that will see lots of truck traffic.

OHaraTree · January 31, 2014, 10:27:33 PM

Thank you PAFaller. Very much.

saxon0364 · February 01, 2014, 10:09:38 PM

If your contracting with a mill, the mill supplying the timber and your just cutting and skidding, then most of the time the mills foresters handle the permits, road bonds, e and s plans and whatever else is needed. They should provide you with copies that you should have at the job site. If your not sure they have covered all the bases, ask em. In 20 years of logging the only thing Ive seen guys get burned on is road bonds, because somebody thought it was done and it wasn't, or the truck driver took the wrong road that wasn't bonded. Ive had DEP, Fish Commission, and soil conservation come to my landings and poke around, some had suggestions, some I have no idea what they were doing. If they don't talk to me I don't bother with them. Nobody has ever asked me for any paperwork. I figure they have already checked and know we have it before they ever show up.