neighborhood/residential logging

[timberlinetree]

We have a job to do on two connecting residential homes. 125 +/- pines ave 18" dbh.  I was wondering  what to look out for in what could be a hasty environment ( complaining neighbors/kids). I checked with the police about noise and hours of operation and all set. The skidder is leaking a little bit so I was going to make my own hazmat pad( any ideas would be great). Is their any thing else I should be concerned about whether in the contract ( drive way/ lawn we're not responsible for) or for the success of the job? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks and work safe!

[John Mc]

I'm not a logger, but I've found when I found that when I work in places where the neighbors might complain, it helps a LOT if you take a little time ahead of time to touch base with them, explain what's planned & that you hope you will not be too much of a disturbance, explain that kids (and adults) need to keep their distance, even if it seems as though there might not be much going on at the time.  Basically, just showing some sympathy for the neighbors possible concerns up front goes a long way towards avoiding having them become a problem. Often, just offering some flexibility can go a long way towards smoothing the way - to the point of not even needing to use that flexibility.

It may seem as though this is going to waste a lot of valuable time, but sometimes it saves you numerous hassles.

[thecfarm]

Weekends,I would not start until 8,probably 9,would be even better. Any mud on the road,clean it up. Any big pieces of bark or branches that falls off the trucks on the way to the mills,pick it up,I would check for that daily.

[WV Sawmiller]

Timberlinetree,

   Any PR with the neighbors sounds like time well spent. Way different work but my dad had a fence company and once we were working in close proximity to neighbors and their son came out as we were setting posts  for a chain link fence in concrete. Dad was afraid the kid would wiggle the posts and get them out of line before the concrete set so he went over and talked to the little boy and told him, "Boy am I glad to see you! I have been looking for someone here in the neighborhood to help guard these posts so nobody moves them before the concrete dries. Can I hire you to do that for me?" He gave the little boy a $1 to guard the property. Worked fine till the owner came home after we left and went out to inspect the posts. He started to touch one of the posts and the kid came out with his BB gun and told him to get away from them.

    If there are kids around the area you are worried about getting on the equipment or site you might "hire" them to pull guard to keep "their friends" away. You might offer a community bonfire or something at the end of the job if local regs and conditions permit.

    Good luck. I think you are definitely on the right track and trust all will work out well.

[Woodboogah]

It is most likely you will get at least one person who complains about you being there.  I used to notify neighbors before I even moved in.  It can go both ways, the majority of the time they are appreciative that you took the time to let them know. Others start bothering you before you even get there and are on the phone with them while trying to get another jobbed wrapped up.  Personally I wait until I am moved into a jop now to deal with people face-face.  Just the way I prefer it.  If you have one, mount a trail camera in a tree up high watching over machines. 

[NWP]

Work weekdays only and get in and out as quick as possible.

[jocco]

The first two posters covered it well. I will add you might want to do posted no trespass/keep out the job site just to help with the spectators. Keep the area very clean do not leave 5 gallon oil cans, trash, broken junk (flat tires) around. Cameras are good or use a sign security cameras in use!!! As for any kids: couple ideas meet there parents and exsplain danger of logging  but give them a tour of the yard let them look at the machines.  Also put up signs  on any roads trucks entering, danger tree work and so on.

[Skidder Kev]

I agree with letting the neighbours know what is going on. A little PR can go along way on jobs like that.  Plus let them know if they do have a problem when you get started to come and talk to you first before making phone calls.   

[thenorthman]

Other then the usual making the neighbors happy stuff, which is pretty much leave the Detroits at home...  :( ;D And keep it clean, pick the oil buckets, get a garbage can and use it, try not to have a brush fit and start swearing like a... well... logger...

The other concerns not mentioned are.

Power lines, Residential work is littered with em.  You can sometimes get the local power company to take them down for free for a day or two, not all areas are the same, other wise yer talking climp em and limb em, then pull em over.

Septic/sewer systems, neither one of these like having trees and equipment slamming down on em. 

Access, as you probably already know, log trucks are big, they will need somewhere to turn around etc and preferably be off the road while loading. Block the road for more then 10 minutes and you will surely have some upset neighbors.  As well as make sure the drivers understand that it is a residential neighborhood and that they are the face of the operation... how they drive will directly reflect on you.  Granted at the same time they can't be waiting around for the soccer vans to get out of the way...

Otherwise the other folks hit it on the head, start around 8am and shut er down around 4pm 5 at the latest. You want Betsy to get her "beauty" sleep... (and after you meet her you'll agree...) And to be totally honest its the stay at home moms and unemployable dudes (read "disabled") that you'll have the biggest issues with... They got nothing better to do then be a pain in the neck.

As for the leaky skidder, get yerself some oil soaking socks (they soak up the oil and let the water go through, a big heavy tarp, or barring that a large bucket to let er drip into overnight... unless its just a general all over leak... then well yer on yer own...

[Autocar]

Here in Ohio you can go to the soil conservation office at the county seat and they have a forum after you fill it out there come out to the site and then if any problems arise they can help you out beacuse they ok'ed the logging plan.

[Straightgrain]

Oh man, you guys are brave.

Dog droppings, fence remnants (nails & staples), on-lookers, and kids playing...

Have all your occupational safety compliance programs "at-hand"; the neighbors are going to call and complain to any government agency willing to listen.

I'm taking it that the property boundaries are clearly marked and they match the survey? Where your team will find itself near a curtilage line; make sure you are protected with a methodology that lends itself to anything other than being accused of peeping (like making noise).

Physical Security

[Southside]

All good advice - I guess just treat it like any super high visibility job.  Make sure everybody has all of their PPE on, if anybody has an issue with loggers eventually they will find and call OSHA, maybe buy some new bright green / high vis shirts so everybody has a clean shirt on each day. 

Is the ground soft / muddy?  Avoid ruts like the plague.  Good luck.

[loggah]

Metal in trees, and tramp iron in the ground you might drive over, along with just trying to make people happy, good luck. Don

[1270d]

a plastic kitty pool works well for drips under a machine overnight.

[smwwoody]

One other thing to think about is your liability insurance.  Most logging liability insurance will use this residential setting to wiggle their way out of any claim that may come up.  one thing that may help is in your work description on the policy add the term "Urban Logging" to your work description.  It is still sort of a gray area but it may help if needed.

Woody

[OntarioAl]

All the posters have hit on the trials and tribulations of cutting trees in a residential environment.
It sure  gives one the reason Arborists charge by the tree.
Soooo exactly how much are you being paid to do this job ?
I hope you are at least getting the timber for free.
Al

[Ron Scott]

You must be an ambassador for logging and do your best work. ;) You will have many onlookers forming their opinion of the operation. Aesthetics and how you treat the roads are always primary concerns of the neighbors.

[tmbrcruiser]

I have done a few jobs I now wish I would have passed on. My advise is if you are a logger go log timber and leave the residential work to the tree trimmers. They are not loggers and you may not be a tree trimmer. Last week there was a logger from my area cutting a tree in a yard, *DanG tree killed him. Good luck with the job if you need or want to do this kind of work. Be very careful!

[OntarioAl]

Me bad
I apologize I thought that you were cutting trees between two residences ( thinking that the trees could cause property damage when they were felled).
Ron Scott's advice X1
Take care and work safe
Al

[timberlinetree]

Thanks so much for all the heads up.That's one well spent dollar :D. Sorry I didn't explain more. Power lines are under groung thank goodness. We do a lot of residential work so obstacles and insurance should be ok .property lines marked. we wear safety vest and will buy some new ones and always wear ppe. The wood is a bonus and will be on the lookout for stain. Will keep road clean( trucks will be on pavement). This is a cold-a-sack (dead end road) should i  notify houses on the road or just the abutting properties and how should I notify them? The kitty pool sounds good but was thinking something more discreet like a rug with a tarp stapled to the back? We use cones a lot but will get a danger work zone sign and show any one the equipment ( this is fun for me. I like to point out the ratcoons on the bandit chipper and see how many they can find :D.)we hope to be in and out. Thanks for the pointers/reminders it is very much appreciated as is any other thoughts.

[jocco]

I will ad a couple more: Property lines make sure there spot on get copies of deeds and surveys!!! (people will fight over 6 inches of land) As Autocar said call your dept. of forestry, town tree warden  (or what ever the governing body is for logging) sometimes they will look at the job before hand then if the complaints come in its much easier.

[loggah]

I did a couple jobs like that and they were all a PITA !!! In N.H. they also have a law that no line trees can be cut. One job i did in one day the older woman wanted the trees cut for income,i finished the job in one day and she didnt get home untill late at night,the next morning i got a phone call from a screaming,crying fanatical property owner, she didn't realize the trees would be gone !!!!!! Needless to say things like thes made me shy away from residential logging.The other thing is they all think a few trees are worth a fortune,not realizing the cost to move equipment in and out ,the pulling over of problem trees and general trouble to do a especially clean logging job. One other thing i learned was to never log a piece of land where the previous land owner  kept the timber rights!!!! >:( >:( you can never make  both people happy . GRRRRRRR!!

[timberlinetree]

I know a little about making people unhappy( not my fault was just doing my job)and having the cops called a couple of times on one job and once on another. Lucky I wasn't there all the times and the landowners took care of things and we did nothing wrong. We had to call the cops once because someone came on the job and wouldn't leave. Have wood sold, trucking all set, and contract all set this weekend. Have company sign so anyone can contact us and Brooke is making a work zone sign this weekend. Hoping it goes well!

[Woodboogah]

The last residential job I did the neighbor was a lunatic!  Called every state agency she could, had to stop multiple time to talk with the cops, they were on my side and knew of her well.   My skid road was crossing under transmission lines (i had ok from power company)she called power company complaining.  Mind you I spoke with her on the first day with her husband and she had a lot to say but didnt want to listen.  Yelling, screaming, started filming log truck driver and myself.  I kept my mouth shut, it was hard but I did it.  I was not doing anything wrong.  I finally got fed up with her screaming at me so I had my lawyer send a letter stating that if it persists that we will be in court for loss of time.  I would have never taken her to court, but it got her to stop!

[landscraper]

The last residential job I did the neighbor was a lunatic!  Called every state agency she could, had to stop multiple time to talk with the cops, they were on my side and knew of her well.   My skid road was crossing under transmission lines (i had ok from power company)she called power company complaining.  Mind you I spoke with her on the first day with her husband and she had a lot to say but didnt want to listen.  Yelling, screaming, started filming log truck driver and myself.  I kept my mouth shut, it was hard but I did it.  I was not doing anything wrong.  I finally got fed up with her screaming at me so I had my lawyer send a letter stating that if it persists that we will be in court for loss of time.  I would have never taken her to court, but it got her to stop!

Hey!  I worked next to that psycho lady too....except it was in Virginia not New Hampshire  :D  Maybe it was her sister.  The internet and a cell phone are a dangerous combination for some people.

[timberlinetree]

Ok. Heard enough bad stories and hoping to maybe hear some good... Like the time we were cutting a right of way and the guy came out and asked me to cut down a small tree! No problem - took 2 seconds. Then he came back out at lunch and asked if it was break time. He took us to his garage and had 2 pizzas, a table, and some chairs set up for us! That was a great lunch! I've also met a lot of nice and interesting people - some of General Patton's men, a guy that helped invent the Jake brake, and of course some rober's!

[Loghauler86]

We do a lot of land clearing and with that a lot of house lots in residential areas. It is not uncommon for us to clear a 1/2 - 3/4 acre house lot wedged between existing houses. We do have the disgruntled neighbor now and again but most of the time people are nice. Sometimes they make us some pretty nice lunches as well. Cutting a extra tree or leaving them a bit of firewood goes a long way. All in all we usually have no problems. Just keep it professional and courteous.

[timberlinetree]

All those pines gotta be cut! They are tall!

  

 
We moved all the equipment over. It was sunny afternoon so lot of people were out. You would think the circus was coming to town with all the looks. Cops showed up looked at our sign sat for a few min and that was it. I will take some more pic but can only take/store 2 pic before my phone overloads.

[John Mc]

Wow, tight fit. That's going to change the scenery around that house. I'm sure the insurance company will be relieved when those trees are no longer in such close proximity.

I like having a house with a lot of woods nearby, but I need a bit more elbow room than what is in those photos.

[Straightgrain]

All those pines gotta be cut! They are tall!

  

 
We moved all the equipment over. It was sunny afternoon so lot of people were out. You would think the circus was coming to town with all the looks. Cops showed up looked at our sign sat for a few min and that was it. I will take some more pic but can only take/store 2 pic before my phone overloads.

Over the Fence Manners; adversity makes us stronger!

Quite a phenomena how some people think they have a say-so in the affairs of another person's property. A person with 10,000 acres still has a property line with "neighbors" (right on the other side) thinking that their "over the fence" opinion(s) matter.

Crappy neighbors can actually better-prepare a good landowner for the next crappy neighbor; so in a learning/maturing/overcoming sort of way; Thank You to all the crappy neighbors out there.   smiley_clapping

[Dave Shepard]

Ok. Heard enough bad stories and hoping to maybe hear some good... Like the time we were cutting a right of way and the guy came out and asked me to cut down a small tree! No problem - took 2 seconds. Then he came back out at lunch and asked if it was break time. He took us to his garage and had 2 pizzas, a table, and some chairs set up for us! That was a great lunch! I've also met a lot of nice and interesting people - some of General Patton's men, a guy that helped invent the Jake brake, and of course some rober's!

I've heard of this guy who helped invent the Jake brake Ii n central MA ir CT somewhere. It was invented by Clessie Cummins and developed with the help of son Lyle.

[timberlinetree]

Crappy neighbors, it's more like cranky people. Every day on my way to work and back at a couple of 4 way stops I wave people on and they don't even acknowledge (wave) like they are better than someone in a truck. I understand people having bad days but that many? Its not all though. Dave the guy I met worked at Jacobs brake in Bloomfield(Jake brake I thought but could be wrong) and can't rember his name but think he lived in granby, ct. Bonus getting a bunch of patio block off the job. 8) 

  

  

  got the whole gang on the job!

[OntarioAl]

timberlinetree
Nice clean job site Your high quality work should garner more sweet jobs like this one.
As for cranky people we've got them up here too!
Al

[Ron Scott]

Yes, a lot of additional care is required when logging in a wooded residential area. Here we are logging up a hilltop to a residence site and most stop at the drain field to the septic system. Care is required to fall and remove three trees away from the drain field with no damage to the drain field. The landowner requested that the trees be removed, but don't go on the drain field. ???  April 2015


 

[Holmes]

  Interesting roof on that chalet ..

[ga jones]

Do it all the time. There's nothing good about it. The big hardwoods suck me in every time.cableing trees into little holes.

[timberlinetree]

Thanks OntarioAl. I meet a guy who's dad was a sea captain. The stories he had to tell and his dads ships gig(small boat) flag was the first to fly on the hill in the Pacific. Then they yelled we need a bigger flag and that the famous statue of the three men putting the flag in the ground. The wind has been a real bugger with these tall pines.

  

  

  

  job is moving along but slow  but steady.

[chep]

Out of curiosity, why are you skidding wood?  It looks like it could be all forwarder to me? Seems like you may be cutting yourself short by essentially triple handling all the wood. Hook unhook then sort and pile... would make less mess to not skidding.   Not criticizing,  just wondering cos it looks like a creamy little forwarder job to me.

[timberlinetree]

Thanks chep and that does make sense but unfortunately the forwarder is old and only a four wheeler. It has some cracks that need fixing and has to big of a grapple and only takes 12' logs. I tried longer and that was almost a disaster. They want the logs 22'(16' plus 8'). Those would be a little to big to handle with that machine and the shape it's in.  I cut a bunch then  buck them to logs because they are almost 100' trees and skidding is easier. 22' logs i pile with the skidder.I drop the pulp off by the forwarder and cut that mostly 12' . I have 2 piles of pulp 12' and random lengths so the truck doubles up with the 12' then random lengths on top. This makes it easy for the truckers and looks neat and pileing pulp with the skidder is no fun.it's not a long skid and all the stumps are going. If I had a newer bigger forwarder I would agree that would be the way to go. Thank for the input.

[chep]

Copy that.  Thanks for the explanation. Got to work with what you've got and you are doing just that.
  Looks like a fun job.  Around those houses every tree has to be a sure bet, keep the heart racing!

[Ryan D]

Timberline that forwarder might be old buts it's still enough to make a guy like me jealous haha. I only have a cable skidder and would kill to have a way to tidy up my landings a bit better.

[John Mc]

They want the logs 22'(16' plus 8').

16' + 8' = 24', not 22' (hope that was a typo, and not the length you already cut them).

[Dave Shepard]

Need a little trim in there too.

[timberlinetree]

Oops! Thanks ment 24'(six flips with my 4' stick) and the trim.

[BargeMonkey]

 Looks good  ;)  takes alot to keep a job like that clean and neatly piled. Did 2 yard trees  last weekend 10-15' off a house and 20' off the main road, i want nothing to do with residential tree work.

[timberlinetree]

Those yard trees really get the heart pumping. I don't like them to much either.

  

  The dead pine is going to be chipped for playground chips for the kids.

[timberlinetree]

The last tree 8)

 
Had to be on the look out for metal.

 
The job is almost done!

  

 

[timberlinetree]

The thing I forgot after cutting hardwood for a long time is these pines explode on impact. Had a few loads in the little dump to get rid of.

 
It took a little while but did almost the whole job by myself.

 
The best part was getting to meet a sea captain son and hearing the stories. And he gave me some bottles

[roadhunter]

I manage construction projects and we run into this from time to time.  I'd barricade/cone/tape off the work area.  Require hard hats, safety vests, glasses, etc.. of anyone inside the work area.  A few simple signs warning people not to enter.  That gives people a clear barrier not to cross and gives you a reason they can't be there (not wearing ppe).  Not to mention CYA for legal reasons. 

Oil catch pans under equipment at night is also a good idea.  I had to send a telehandler off my jobsite 2 weeks ago because of a small leak on a Corps of Engineers job.  We have to do daily equipment checks on those jobs.  Any leak and the equipment goes home. 

I would also call in locates on the property just so you know where things are that you will be driving over as well as touch base with homeowners on septic tank/drain field locations. 

Watch places where you will be going form dirt to asphalt of pavement.  These areas can get damaged quite easily while operating equipment. 

Take pictures before you start so there is no question on the existing condition of the work area.  Cracks in concrete are a big one.